Feels a little bit too much like Brawl..

[DavidLowell]

Not saying it's a bad thing. I just prefer a different game.
Like if Brawl was it's own standalone series, this would definitely be Brawl 2.

I'm not crying about it not being Melee. I do prefer Melee. I'm just saying I see another Brawl with this one.
If I wanted to play Brawl, I'll go ahead and play it. Not trying to argue which is better. I just need some reassurance that what I'm spending my time on (playing this game) is worth it.
I really don't care about extra features. They're mandatory in a new entry.
I guess what I'm trying to say is with this game, I'm not having fun. There's nothing exciting about it, in my opinion.I don't know. I feel punished for liking the fast paced, high skill level of Melee when these new Smashes come along because it just caters to those who have trouble in the game.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I'd just suggest that you take the time to intricately learn new techniques, characters and strategies that make the game more interesting and different to Brawl. If nothing you find works for you, you're fully entitled to decide that the game isn't for you and stop playing it. Personally, I'm having a heck of a lot of fun and prefer Smash 4's gameplay to Brawl's in every way.

 

[Gawain]

I'm not really seeing how it is. I can string true combos in this game. That alone separates it by huge bounds from Brawl. I can also combo into KOs as low as 45 percent on most characters with Falcon. That's way, way lower than Brawl.

 

[DavidLowell]

I'd just suggest that you take the time to intricately learn new techniques, characters and strategies that make the game more interesting and different to Brawl. If nothing you find works for you, you're fully entitled to decide that the game isn't for you and stop playing it. Personally, I'm having a heck of a lot of fun and prefer Smash 4's gameplay to Brawl's in every way.

Lol I know, it's such an odd thing to say because the game came out 5 days ago. I just have that feeling that even if I do find something, I won't play for long because I just won't find it fun. I bought it because it's pocket Smash but now, I'm feeling like I want pocket Melee.
But I'm glad you're having fun. That's awesome. Definitely have to agree with you on gameplay is better than Brawl.
Me and my friends came to the conclusion that it still rewards defensive play more than offensive.
I guess that's what is bothering me.

 

[Naisora]

The physics in this game are very similar to brawl. Blast zones are even bigger then in brawl, and hitstun is a little increased. You ain't crazy man, this game is a lot like brawl. I kind of saw it coming to be honest, the earlier trailers looked a lot like brawl. Just wish they didn't lie when they said they were going between Melee and Brawl speed. Does not feel "between", feels more like 80% brawl 20% melee speed imo.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Lol I know, it's such an odd thing to say because the game came out 5 days ago. I just have that feeling that even if I do find something, I won't play for long because I just won't find it fun. I bought it because it's pocket Smash but now, I'm feeling like I want pocket Melee.
But I'm glad you're having fun. That's awesome. Definitely have to agree with you on gameplay is better than Brawl.
Me and my friends came to the conclusion that it still rewards defensive play more than offensive.
I guess that's what is bothering me.

It does reward defensive play and defensive options are strong, but it also well and truly rewards measured aggression. It's not as fast as Melee and guaranteed follow-ups are more sparse, but there are definitely ways to punish defensive play and take advantages in Smash 4. It's definitely irritating when people spam roll and the like, but there are also ways to make them regret it. Landing well timed punishes often leads into openings for bursts of aggressive play in Smash 4 -- and it feels great when that happens.

 

[DavidLowell]

I'm not really seeing how it is. I can string true combos in this game. That alone separates it by huge bounds from Brawl. I can also combo into KOs as low as 45 percent on most characters with Falcon. That's way, way lower than Brawl.

"True" combos don't really exist in this game as far as I know. What I'm saying is it feels more like a better Brawl. But that's cool that you can do that. I guess nothing wows me with this game is what I'm trying to say.

 

[Gawain]

"True" combos don't really exist in this game as far as I know. What I'm saying is it feels more like a better Brawl. But that's cool that you can do that. I guess nothing wows me with this game is what I'm trying to say.

There are true combos. Go into training mode and try them out. I've been reliably stringing dthrow as well as uair into Falcon's knee at kill percents. Though some characters can DI out of the throw ---> knee. Never able to DI out of the uair's though if they're spaced properly.

 

[SevenYearItch]

"True" combos don't really exist in this game as far as I know. What I'm saying is it feels more like a better Brawl. But that's cool that you can do that. I guess nothing wows me with this game is what I'm trying to say.

True combos do register in this game

 

[DavidLowell]

It does reward defensive play and defensive options are strong, but it also well and truly rewards measured aggression. It's not as fast as Melee and guaranteed follow-ups are more sparse, but there are definitely ways to punish defensive play and take advantages in Smash 4. It's definitely irritating when people spam roll and the like, but there are also ways to make them regret it. Landing well timed punishes often leads into openings for bursts of aggressive play in Smash 4 -- and it feels great when that happens.

I guess the game is asking for much more defensive options. I put down Brawl for the reason of "I don't want to wait to be attacked, I want to attack and take it as far as I can go, maybe take a stock or do a lot of damage." I still play Melee for that freedom. I appreciate the insight about Smash 4 though.

 

[momochuu]

i can punish people for air dodging into the ground like idiots and i don't get chaingrabbed for 60% just for trying to approach. the game's still early but that alone separates it enough from brawl for me.

 

[Gawain]

I figure I may as well post it here. Just watch the two following the timestamp for some examples.

 

[DavidLowell]

True combos do register in this game

Are they character specific? I use Marth/Lucina and I know the b-air, f-air, f-smash combo is situational but as far as I know, nothing was a true combo.

 

[DavidLowell]

I figure I may as well post it here. Just watch the two following the timestamp for some examples.

That was actually nice to see. Thank you.

 

[Gawain]

Are they character specific? I use Marth/Lucina and I know the b-air, f-air, f-smash combo is situational but as far as I know, nothing was a true combo.

Well Marth and Lucina are very non-combo heavy, which is stark contrast to past-Marth. They're more defensive characters now, really. The game is split between differen't "types" of characters, who are good at offense, defense, or are balanced. And while this was true in Melee, the super offense heavy types really beat out the defensive ones. This time though, you've got reactive characters like Bowser and Marth and proactive characters like Captain Falcon and they're all seemingly a lot closer. We'll see how that holds up as time goes on, but this Smash is very different in ways that past games were not.

 

[chipndip]

Here's the thing: Melee's speed isn't exactly "true", in a sense. It's achieved through a combination of mechanics and movement exploits. The game would naturally be faster paced regardless, but the degree of speed is due to things that aren't going to be revisited in the franchise.

This game's definitely faster than Brawl, but due to the lack of Melee's exploits, it's not gonna be that comparable to Melee regardless. I knew it was coming long before, but some of my Melee/PM playing friends kept ignoring me. Now their hype got thrown for a loop.

To the least, unlike Brawl, this game's playable competitively, with less wonky hit-boxes (save Rosaluma n' Villager) and much more concern to balancing the whole cast.

 

[Gawain]

Here's the thing: Melee's speed isn't exactly "true", in a sense. It's achieved through a combination of mechanics and movement exploits. The game would naturally be faster paced regardless, but the degree of speed is due to things that aren't going to be revisited in the franchise.

This game's definitely faster than Brawl, but due to the lack of Melee's exploits, it's not gonna be that comparable to Melee regardless. I knew it was coming long before, but some of my Melee/PM playing friends kept ignoring me. Now their hype got thrown for a loop.

To the least, unlike Brawl, this game's playable competitively, with less wonky hit-boxes (save Rosaluma n' Villager) and much more concern to balancing the whole cast.

It's actually not the lack of mechanics that is the biggest determinant in game speed comparisons from 4 to Melee. It's the lack of airspeed. The game is actually faster on the ground for some characters than it was in Melee. Dash speeds are higher. Attacks for most characters are faster. The only thing is that, due to the lack of dash speed carrying into jumps, you can't chase your opponent as far as you could in Melee. Which isn't even necessarily a bad thing. The relationship between ground speed and air speed in 4 is actually most similar to 64, where dashes didn't carry into your jumps. The only thing that makes 64 so different is the insanely high hitstun and the legal stages having walls to bounce people off of (a la the Green House).

 

[DavidLowell]

Well Marth and Lucina are very non-combo heavy, which is stark contrast to past-Marth. They're more defensive characters now, really. The game is split between differen't "types" of characters, who are good at offense, defense, or are balanced. And while this was true in Melee, the super offense heavy types really beat out the defensive ones. This time though, you've got reactive characters like Bowser and Marth and proactive characters like Captain Falcon and they're all seemingly a lot closer. We'll see how that holds up as time goes on, but this Smash is very different in ways that past games were not.

I guess that's what I'm not used to. I use Marth in Melee. I'm used to gimping people, Ken Combos, etc.
I was playing with them wrong, I guess. And I agree. I'll give it a bigger timeframe to play before making a final judgement.

 

[S2]

A key difference between this and Brawl is that this has girl Marth and Brawl didn't. (Joking, joking, please don't hurt me Lucina mains. I like her too, have mercy).

 

[no1butmenotu]

If I were to compare this to another smash bros game that I played, I would say that IMO it is closer to the N64 version.

 

[chipndip]

It's actually not the lack of mechanics that is the biggest determinant in game speed comparisons from 4 to Melee. It's the lack of airspeed. The game is actually faster on the ground for some characters than it was in Melee. Dash speeds are higher. Attacks for most characters are faster. The only thing is that, due to the lack of dash speed carrying into jumps, you can't chase your opponent as far as you could in Melee. Which isn't even necessarily a bad thing. The relationship between ground speed and air speed in 4 is actually most similar to 64, where dashes didn't carry into your jumps. The only thing that makes 64 so different is the insanely high hitstun and the legal stages having walls to bounce people off of (a la the Green House).

Those are other good notes to point out, yes, and thanks.

Regardless, I think it's necessary for momentum not to carry into jumps for this game, since almost any char can go from defensive to offensive play relatively well. The ones that have horrifyingly strong projectile games like Toon Link would be nigh unstoppable if they could go full tilt and rush down like that on a whim.

 

[DavidLowell]

If I were to compare this to another smash bros game that I played, I would say that IMO it is closer to the N64 version.

I wouldn't say that. Smash 64 is different.

 

[Gawain]

I guess that's what I'm not used to. I use Marth in Melee. I'm used to gimping people, Ken Combos, etc.
I was playing with them wrong, I guess. And I agree. I'll give it a bigger timeframe to play before making a final judgement.

That's not to say that Marth and Lucina don't have any combos. I've found a few. Primarily in the bizarre form of using their uair really close to the ground (tip(heh): Marth can land a tippered Fsmash from a landing uair on most characters in the 40-50 percent range. Depends on the characer)

In general though, they're more about frame traps and ledge guarding this time around. They are very strong edge guarders. I feel like this was intentional, actually. Big range, speedy aerials but with bad landing lag on most.

 

[DadPalindrome]

I like to think of Smash 4 as Brawl, except it's good.

 

[DavidLowell]

That's not to say that Marth and Lucina don't have any combos. I've found a few. Primarily in the bizarre form of using their uair really close to the ground (tip(heh): Marth can land a tippered Fsmash from a landing uair on most characters in the 40-50 percent range. Depends on the characer)

In general though, they're more about frame traps and ledge guarding this time around. They are very strong edge guarders. I feel like this was intentional, actually. Big range, speedy aerials but with bad landing lag on most.

I used a very situational combo in the form of b-air, f-air, f-smash but that was only because my opponent was suffering from lag.. I had a feeling about that too. Hmm, I may try out the up-air into f-smash.
Silly me, trying to Ken Combo in this game. Haha. Funny thing is.. it worked.. Extremely lucky.

 

[MatrixNexus]

IMO, SSB4 is what brawl should have been.

 

[KurashiDragon]

I feel there's one start difference between Smash 4 and Brawl and that's the floatiness. I have both games and I've played the ever loving butt off of brawl so I can just tell that Smash 4 is much less floaty than Brawl. Personally, I love smash 4. I think it's the game I can really get into. So far there doesn't seem to be anything particularly complicated about it and the pros have proven to me that the game is very fast depending on who plays it. I cant wait to see how this whole thing will turn out.

 

[Jerm]

The fact that I can run around without falling on my ass and all the characters play completely different yet are all still relevant for the most part makes the game feel more like PM2 as opposed to Brawl 2. I love Brawl over PM and Melee and I have to say the only similarity between Brawl and Smash 4 is the slight floatiness in the air. Everything else is faster and better.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

The physics in this game are very similar to brawl. Blast zones are even bigger then in brawl, and hitstun is a little increased. You ain't crazy man, this game is a lot like brawl. I kind of saw it coming to be honest, the earlier trailers looked a lot like brawl. Just wish they didn't lie when they said they were going between Melee and Brawl speed. Does not feel "between", feels more like 80% brawl 20% melee speed imo.

It feels perfect to me. Not having L-cancel on every move is probably a big part of it. The actual move and air speeds are very fast now.

 

[D-idara]

Not saying it's a bad thing. I just prefer a different game.
Like if Brawl was it's own standalone series, this would definitely be Brawl 2.

I'm not crying about it not being Melee. I do prefer Melee. I'm just saying I see another Brawl with this one.
If I wanted to play Brawl, I'll go ahead and play it. Not trying to argue which is better. I just need some reassurance that what I'm spending my time on (playing this game) is worth it.
I really don't care about extra features. They're mandatory in a new entry.
I guess what I'm trying to say is with this game, I'm not having fun. There's nothing exciting about it, in my opinion.I don't know. I feel punished for liking the fast paced, high skill level of Melee when these new Smashes come along because it just caters to those who have trouble in the game.

It caters to those who have trouble in the game...? Have your perhaps considered the fact that some people DON'T LIKE the super-fast-paced Melee and this game's tons of fun? Geez, playing this game's worth it if you've having fun, if you're not having fun, go back to the ages-old Melee or at least PM.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I feel like people comparing it to Brawl didn't really play very much Brawl, especially in tournament environments.

All of the strongest options for escaping strings and stalling games were destroyed in this game. I'm literally afraid to airdodge against fast characters, not because I want to avoid followups but because I don't want to eat a smash attack when I land. Sure, you'd eat a throw or something in Brawl if your opponent was on the ball (or a dsmash against ZSS) but it's a much less powerful option that you have to use in a smarter way if your opponent has a pulse.

Let's not even talk about the ledge.

I play Smash 4 online with very good players from my crew back in NYC before I moved here and it's just a very different game. You can't get away with stalling/camping out matches as much, things move much faster. You can still follow DI for strings and combos. Shields are still good but shield grabbing is absolutely terrible, meaning out of shield options are overall slower and more limited and breaking shields happens a lot more. It's safer to throw things out, approaching is easier, could go on for ages. Gimping off-stage is easier, staying on the ledge is scarier.

The physics feel like Brawl sort of, beyond that it's a very different game. The only thing I sort of dislike is that rolls are way too good, but rolls sucked in Brawl so that's a Smash 4 problem, not a Brawl problem.

 

[Delgado]

I figure I may as well post it here. Just watch the two following the timestamp for some examples.

Nice video. Seems like falcon plays a lot like diddy with all these falling uair combos

 

[SmashBro99]

Brawl was the best selling smash game by far, why wouldn't they keep it somewhat like Brawl?

But yeah, it looks and feels like Brawl, but isn't at all.

 

[KRBAY]

Well, it IS the sequel to Brawl...

 

[Arcadenik]

It's better than Melee and Brawl IMO. Classic and All-Star are much shorter... but you have 51 characters so it's taken me hours to complete both modes with all 51 characters. I'm so happy that the 15-minute multi men matches are finally gone!!! It was a tedious chore when I try to complete it with all 25/35 characters... especially when I die in the 14th minute and I have to start all over again. I don't mind 100-men matches and 3-minute matches. That's how mini-games should be... short and sweet.

 

[smashbroskilla]

It's actually not the lack of mechanics that is the biggest determinant in game speed comparisons from 4 to Melee. It's the lack of airspeed. The game is actually faster on the ground for some characters than it was in Melee. Dash speeds are higher. Attacks for most characters are faster. The only thing is that, due to the lack of dash speed carrying into jumps, you can't chase your opponent as far as you could in Melee. Which isn't even necessarily a bad thing. The relationship between ground speed and air speed in 4 is actually most similar to 64, where dashes didn't carry into your jumps. The only thing that makes 64 so different is the insanely high hitstun and the legal stages having walls to bounce people off of (a la the Green House).

No momentum jumping sucks. It takes away a lot of air options for slower character like DK and DDD because there's no such thing as dashing to short hop air options.

Brawl was the best selling smash game by far, why wouldn't they keep it somewhat like Brawl?
But yeah, it looks and feels like Brawl, but isn't at all.

Lets be honest. People thought it was going to be the next best thing after melee ; that's why everyone bought it.

It feels perfect to me. Not having L-cancel on every move is probably a big part of it. The actual move and air speeds are very fast now.

What game are you playing lol. I can take a hit from someone dash attacking me and I have time to scratch my face and adjust my junk before I come close to the edge again. Some characters fall so slow it makes me cringe.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

Doesn't feel anything like Brawl. Feels like Smash. So it feels like Melee feels like Brawl and 4 feels like 64 or Smash 4.

 

[Killress]

Try smooth landing.