Fighting Games Thread

[Infinity Sorcerer]

We already have threads dedicated to specfic games like Street Fighter 6 and Tekken but I want to create a general thread for the genre, talk about your favorite fighting games, your recommendations, your salt, your ideas, etc. Even you can search people to play a particular game, I recommend particulary games from Fightcade since are the ones of easiest access.

Without anything else to say, welcome to the thread!

 

[Quillion]

Shall we reserve this to traditional fighters, or are nontraditional fighters allowed to be discussed as well?

 

[dezeray112]

I started following fighting games ever since I played Tekken 3 back during the Playstation years and since then it got me in to other fighting game franchises from Dead or Alive, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Darkstalkers, Marvel Vs Capcom and so on.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Shall we reserve this to traditional fighters, or are nontraditional fighters allowed to be discussed as well?

I kinda feel we should mantain it to mostly traditional games, or at least just not the platform Fighters since most of the games already has one. I will not be salty if someone wants to talk about them tho.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I started following fighting games ever since I played Tekken 3 back during the Playstation years and since then it got me in to other fighting game franchises from Dead or Alive, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Darkstalkers, Marvel Vs Capcom and so on.

Thats cool!, my story with fighting games is more recent, I did play certain games before like USF4 and MK9 yet I never was interesed in the genre until buy Guilty Gear Xrd Rev 2,that game really changed my way to see the games and make me play a lot more starting with other ArcSys and related games like BlazBlue, Under Night In-Birth, Arcana Heart, Melty Blood and then playing from the rest of companies like the SNK games, Street Fighter, Darkstalkers, MvC, CvS, etc. The only part of the genre that I still dont touch too much are the 3D games but I'm looking forward to see how to obtain my own PS4 to play Tekken, SoulCalibur and DoA.

 

[nirvanafan]

Aside from Smash have alot of good memories playing fighting games with friends, particularly SF 2 & 4, MK 2 & 3, Power Stone 2, MvC 2, but probably our favorite was VF 2 & 3.

After we grew up & werent able to play games too much together anymore i kind of fell out of the genre for a bit until I heard DoA 5 played a bit like VF & had several VF guests. Since then Ive particularly finally played & really enjoyed the SoulCalibur & Tekken series & a little bit by ArcSys & SNK. SF 6 looks pretty good so looking to dive back into that series a bit soon.

 

[dezeray112]

I'm looking forward to see how to obtain my own PS4 to play Tekken, SoulCalibur and DoA.

Ah yes, I forgot to mention the SoulCalibur franchise in which my first game was the SCII which I bought the GameCube version since it had Link as the guest character.

Guest characters had certainly become something that is common with several fighting games whether this was Kratos in Mortal Kombat 9 to Geese Howard in Tekken 7.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I think guest characters are very cool but they should have some restrictions, take Tekken for example, Akuma and Geese are great additions (even if they are quite broken ) but Noctis and especially Negan are very weird and like a lot people said before they fit more in SoulCalibur and MK respectively.

 

[Quillion]

So like a few others and I have observed on other threads, Smash's button+direction controls are starting to take a foothold into traditional fighters. Granblue Fantasy VS and DNF Duel have adopted the scheme, and now Street Fighter 6, the biggest traditional fighter series ever, has it as an option.

I like that traditional fighters are starting to move in this direction, don't get me wrong, but I do have to acknowledge some of the drawbacks. Direction+special button leaves no room for selecting the "variant" of the special you want, meaning we can't choose to throw out a slower/faster fireball or weak+safe/strong+risky dragon punch. Also, AFAIK, it leaves no room for charge inputs, eliminating an interesting way to play and balance.

That said, command inputs that overlap with jump and aren't aerial specials can burn for eternity for all I care, and AFAIK, those were already virtually eliminated circa SF4's 2D Fighter revival.

Also, I'd estimate that command inputs are only 20%-30% of my problem with modern traditional fighters, so there's still quite a ways to go.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

So like a few others and I have observed on other threads, Smash's button+direction controls are starting to take a foothold into traditional fighters. Granblue Fantasy VS and DNF Duel have adopted the scheme, and now Street Fighter 6, the biggest traditional fighter series ever, has it as an option.

I like that traditional fighters are starting to move in this direction, don't get me wrong, but I do have to acknowledge some of the drawbacks. Direction+special button leaves no room for selecting the "variant" of the special you want, meaning we can't choose to throw out a slower/faster fireball or weak+safe/strong+risky dragon punch. Also, AFAIK, it leaves no room for charge inputs, eliminating an interesting way to play and balance.

That said, command inputs that overlap with jump and aren't aerial specials can burn for eternity for all I care, and AFAIK, those were already virtually eliminated circa SF4's 2D Fighter revival.

Also, I'd estimate that command inputs are only 20%-30% of my problem with modern traditional fighters, so there's still quite a ways to go.

In terms of the charge inputs, MVCI did something quite interesing with Chun-Li, they changed her Spinning Bird Kick to a normal input instead of the usual charged input, but if you crouch for charge you can do an enhanced version of the move. IIRC SF6 will also mantain charge motions for the Modern Controls just that you wouldn't require to move the stick in the second direction (for example to do Guile's Sonic Boom you have to move backwards for a while and then input the button).

In terms of the second I really don't understanted, are you refering to the command inputs that requires to move the stick up like the 360° motions and Vatista's Transvoranse?.

I honestly like the command inputs, I don't consider them "gatekeeping" or something like that, either way I'm also not against the one button inputs UNLESS they are like SSF4 3D, **** that ****.

The footage is from a USS4 mod, but if you search gameplay of SSF4 in 3DS it isn't too different.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I want to share this amazing IKEMEN/MUGEN project that was released today!, the link would be avalaible in a brief time since the creator is from Venezuela so it doesnt has estable Internet yet the trailer shows how amazing it is!

 

[Quillion]

In terms of the second I really don't understanted, are you refering to the command inputs that requires to move the stick up like the 360° motions and Vatista's Transvoranse?

Yep, I'm referring to command inputs that include any type of "up" input like Full Circle motions. Also, I just looked up the move you're talking about; WTH is even that input; charge up, down, punch? At least being aerial softens the blow, but still.

Maybe traditional fighters should have a dedicated jump button so those motions are more intuitive...

Also, is there really a USF4 mod that allows for 3DS-style shortcuts (albeit with keys)? Would seem fun to play with ngl.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Yep, I'm referring to command inputs that include any type of "up" input like Full Circle motions. Also, I just looked up the move you're talking about; WTH is even that input; charge up, down, punch? At least being aerial softens the blow, but still.

Maybe traditional fighters should have a dedicated jump button so those motions are more intuitive...

Also, is there really a USF4 mod that allows for 3DS-style shortcuts (albeit with keys)? Would seem fun to play with ngl.

Yeah Vatista is crazy, one of the most ****ed up charge characters I ever seen. 360 motions are the main reason why I usually dont play grappler, the input os actually easier since most of the time you dont need to do the full circle but the difficulty usually comes for try to do the motion in a gamepad stick or in keyboard, the arcade sticks are better for do those motions.

There are some Fighters that had a Button jump, most notably Mortal Kombat but I honestly dont see necessary change the way to jump to a Button, I think the use of a stick is not only more intituitive but allows more ways to do the jumps that sure you can technically also perform with Button but isnt has smooth has just move the stick.

For the last question in fact its actually a hotkey and sure is fun to play with it... But not to play against lol.

Also if you want even more ****ed up motion, take a look to Arcana Heart.

 

[Quillion]

Yeah Vatista is crazy, one of the most ****ed up charge characters I ever seen. 360 motions are the main reason why I usually dont play grappler,

IIRC, haven't recent Street Fighter games replaced most FC motions with substitutes like HCF,B or HCB,F? I think games like that and more would keep the FC motion as an option while still having HCF,B or the reverse as the default.

the input os actually easier since most of the time you dont need to do the full circle but the difficulty usually comes for try to do the motion in a gamepad stick or in keyboard, the arcade sticks are better for do those motions.

I guess we can add that to the list of reasons why traditional fighters hit a bit of a slump with attracting new players circa the PS4/XB1 era:

1. Way too many mechanics and/or those mechanics synergize a lot less than intended.
2. Lack of readily apparent gameplay distinction between traditional fighters to the uninitiated.
3. Single player content getting sparser and sparser.
4. Sticking with control methods that were designed for arcades rather than consoles.

Perhaps the problem with command inputs wasn't necessarily the elaborate ones like pretzel and FC or being difficult to execute, but more that they were made with arcades in mind instead of consoles, with traditional fighters largely not adapting to the decline in arcades until very recently.

There are some Fighters that had a Button jump, most notably Mortal Kombat but I honestly dont see necessary change the way to jump to a Button, I think the use of a stick is not only more intituitive but allows more ways to do the jumps that sure you can technically also perform with Button but isnt has smooth has just move the stick.

You mean like super jumps? I know at least for "juggle fighters", normal jumps are limited to neutral jump (), forward jump (), backward jump (), and super jump (). Button jump could map super jump to up+jump. If that's still an issue for juggle fighters, there could be a hidden mechanic where pressing up after a launcher does the super jump regardless.

That said, I do think stick jump at least has a lot more of a place in traditional fighters than knockback-based platform fighters if anything. I just think that if a traditional fighter wants to implement those weird FC or charge up motions, it should go with button jump. If it wants to have stick jump, it should stay away from FC or charge up motions.

 

[dezeray112]

I think guest characters are very cool but they should have some restrictions, take Tekken for example, Akuma and Geese are great additions (even if they are quite broken ) but Noctis and especially Negan are very weird and like a lot people said before they fit more in SoulCalibur and MK respectively.

Might also want to add the Star Wars characters being guest characters in SoulCalibur IV which didn't really connect very well with the franchise.

 

[Quillion]

Also if you want even more ****ed up motion, take a look to Arcana Heart.

Is... is that a star motion..?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Is... is that a star motion..?

A pentagram, is technically easier to do since the character stances quietly without jumping for a while and you can just do a traingle instead the whole pentagram but yeah is super weird lol. And it isnt the only ****ed motion, there is a character that requires to you in a very fast way the catholic signal of the crux or other that requires you to mash so fast the buttons that is near impossible to do even with turbo controllers

 

[dezeray112]

With the EVO championships coming up next month, I am pretty certain that we will likely hear certain game announcements and reveals for specific fighting games. Here is what I predict will be shown there:

CAPCOM: Very likely to have new information on Street Fighter 6 with at least two character reveals.

Bandai Namco: Perhaps a first reveal of Tekken 8.

Arc Systems: Maybe some updates and reveals for their titles that include Guilty Gear?

Netherealm Studios: Perhaps a first reveal of Mortal Kombat 12.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

With the EVO championships coming up next month, I am pretty certain that we will likely hear certain game announcements and reveals for specific fighting games. Here is what I predict will be shown there:

CAPCOM: Very likely to have new information on Street Fighter 6 with at least two character reveals.

Bandai Namco: Perhaps a first reveal of Tekken 8.

Arc Systems: Maybe some updates and reveals for their titles that include Guilty Gear?

Netherealm Studios: Perhaps a first reveal of Mortal Kombat 12.

I definitively see announcement of Guilty Gear and KOF DLC alongside SF6, about the rest are more difficult to predict but I would love to see them, considering that MBTL is in the EVO lineup too I can see the announcement of the first wave of characters there too.

 

[dezeray112]

I definitively see announcement of Guilty Gear and KOF DLC alongside SF6, about the rest are more difficult to predict but I would love to see them, considering that MBTL is in the EVO lineup too I can see the announcement of the first wave of characters there too.

I do agree that the ones you mentioned are likely to see at least something announced at EVO and whilst it is kind of hard to say what other reveals we can expect, but I generally believe that a new entry for Tekken and Mortal Kombat is guaranteed to happen at some point.

As for the others such as a new entry for the Dead or Alive series for example, that is also hard to say whether a sequel is in the works or not.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Dead or Alive is in a limbo imo, if they would do DoA 7 they require to show that they learned from his errors in DoA 6.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I pretty much grew up playing Mortal Kombat. Still a fan to this day.

I'm also interested in Darkstalkers despite never playing. I like the concept of it having characters based on mythological creatures, be nice if it'd throw more cryptozoological-based characters like Sasquatch such as the chupacabra, goatman, Jersey Devil, Mothman/Owlman, etc for a new eventual game. Ha, ha...As if that'll ever happen...

At least hope for a remaster one day perhaps.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

You can try Darkstalkers using Fightcade!, I did it myself, is very fun even if some super moves have weird ass inputs.

 

[Quillion]

Dead or Alive is in a limbo imo, if they would do DoA 7 they require to show that they learned from his errors in DoA 6.

Were there any gameplay issues with DoA6?

I know that DoA6 gets flack for the toned down character designs, but they started that direction since DoA5.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Were there any gameplay issues with DoA6?

I know that DoA6 gets flack for the toned down character designs, but they started that direction since DoA5.

It wasnt the gameplay what doomed DoA6 (in fact a lot of people actually praise the gameplay) , it was the shi tton of expensive af DLCs and lack of content ingame that unlike SFV that in the start was a similar case they didnt added anything posterior, just the costume DLCs and some additional characters, even the proper support only was for the first year IIRC.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I miss custom colors...they are harder to do in a 3D game sure but it was done before iirc. Make color palettes is a hobby of mine that I enjoy a lot!

 

[dezeray112]

It wasnt the gameplay what doomed DoA6 (in fact a lot of people actually praise the gameplay) , it was the shi tton of expensive af DLCs and lack of content ingame that unlike SFV that in the start was a similar case they didnt added anything posterior, just the costume DLCs and some additional characters, even the proper support only was for the first year IIRC.

Pretty much this. It also omitted the tag mode which had been a part of previous entries that made the sixth entry lacking.

Personally, I felt that the story mode was awfully messy and disjointed.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Look at the timing, the new McMuscles video is about DoA6

 

[dezeray112]

Anyone remember this when it was first revealed at the time?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I dont but its a shame that SFxT ended in the way that did it.

 

[Quillion]

You know, given the DLC troubles with SFxT and DoA6 alongside the roster troubles of MvCI, are developers learning now that core gameplay isn't everything?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Each game has their faults, but its complicate to see what is right and what is wrong.

• MVCI failed for the roster and graphics but it had a very good gameplay.
• SFV failed at the launch for the lack of content and the controversial new mechanics and the lack of other but it improved at the end.
• Guilty Gear Strive succeded even if it had a very small roster at launch, a controversial change of mechanics and a boring HUD.

Its like depends more of the individual franchise than anything.

 

[Quillion]

Each game has their faults, but its complicate to see what is right and what is wrong.

• MVCI failed for the roster and graphics but it had a very good gameplay.
• SFV failed at the launch for the lack of content and the controversial new mechanics and the lack of other but it improved at the end.
• Guilty Gear Strive succeded even if it had a very small roster at launch, a controversial change of mechanics and a boring HUD.

Its like depends more of the individual franchise than anything.

Maybe these big franchises need to stop relying on the Game-as-a-Service model.

IIRC, Tekken and Smash seem to be the only two major fighter franchises that rely on the old-fashioned "complete at launch with DLC later" approach, and Bamco is involved with both.

Are there any other major fighter franchises left that have the old-school model?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

DNF Duel? Small roster but very fun over all. Its a kusoge but a lot of people including me enjoys this type of games.

Tekken dont fit in the category tho, Base!Tekken 7 was quite barebones and it didnt slyrocket until Fated Retribution. There is also the infamous Frame Data DLC.

Tbf game as service works in Fighting Games since they are supposed to be played for a long time unlike other games where you beat the story and most of the time dont play ever again.

 

[Quillion]

DNF Duel? Small roster but very fun over all. Its a kusoge but a lot of people including me enjoys this type of games.

A (s-word for fecal matter) game? That's a strange descriptor for a game I've been seeing a lot of marketing and fan videos of lately.

I'd probably use "kusoge" for Dong Dong Never Die, a game that is horribly unbalanced but has creative digitized live-action spritework and by all accounts is very very fun to play anyway.

Tekken dont fit in the category tho, Base!Tekken 7 was quite barebones and it didnt slyrocket until Fated Retribution. There is also the infamous Frame Data DLC.

Oh, you're right. Still, Tekken 7's home release was based on Fated Retribution so that probably skewed my view.

Tbf game as service works in Fighting Games since they are supposed to be played for a long time unlike other games where you beat the story and most of the time dont play ever again.

Maybe it could work in fighting games... if the game was meant to be played forever with no need to look forward to a sequel.

None of these big fighter franchises (AFAIK) are deliberately designed as a one-game franchise like Minecraft or Fortnite. Their fans are looking forward to sequels.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

A (s-word for fecal matter) game? That's a strange descriptor for a game I've been seeing a lot of marketing and fan videos of lately.

Kusoge in fighting games is usually just used for unbalanced games, Dong Dong Never Die, Street Fighter II The Movie The Game, Hokuto no Ken, BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle and DNF Duel all can be considered Kusoges for this description. People ended liked the concept to the point that isnt ever considered an insult for the game.

Maybe it could work in fighting games... if the game was meant to be played forever with no need to look forward to a sequel

The fighting games in the last years tríes to have the longest lifetime possible, SFV had a lifetime of 7 years, Tekken 7 has 8 years, the lapse of time between Guilty Gear Xrd SIGN and REV 2 was of 4 years, etc. The people dont want to play forever just one game sure but they dont want to but a new game every few years, people critic the lack of support in games like the previous mentioned MVCI and DOA6 and even MK11 or SoulCalibur VI.

 

[toonito]

still peeved we never got a TxSF game lol

Akuma in T7 made me want to see it more

 

[Quillion]

The fighting games in the last years tríes to have the longest lifetime possible, SFV had a lifetime of 7 years, Tekken 7 has 8 years, the lapse of time between Guilty Gear Xrd SIGN and REV 2 was of 4 years, etc. The people dont want to play forever just one game sure but they dont want to but a new game every few years, people critic the lack of support in games like the previous mentioned MVCI and DOA6 and even MK11 or SoulCalibur VI.

A new game in a fighter franchise per console gen doesn't sound too bad all things considered.

I know people don't like when games aren't supported, but either the FG-playing population has become impossible to please due to the rise of GaaS, or the games you mentioned were clearly designed for GaaS without it panning out.

I guess it depends on whether these games feel complete at launch or not. You may elaborate if a game did feel complete at launch but still got complaints of not having long-term updates.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

A new game in a fighter franchise per console gen doesn't sound too bad all things considered.

It kinda is actually, if you dont count the reeditions almost all long running franchises have a main game per gen:
7th Gen

• Street Fighter IV
• Mortal Kombat 9
• KOF XIII
• Tekken 6
• SoulCalibur V
• Guilty Gear Xrd SIGN*

8th gen

• Street Fighter V
• Mortal Kombat X**
• KOF XIV
• Tekken 7
• SoulCalibur VI
• Guilty Gear Xrd REVELATOR*

9th gen

• Street Fighter 6**
• Mortal Kombat 11**
• KOF XV**
• Guilty Gear Strive**

*Considering they have different stories....
**Cross-gen games but that in the end where mostly planned for the more modern gen in mind.

 

[Quillion]

It kinda is actually

What makes it bad though? Releasing a main installment once per console gen is a good way to allow the playerbase to fully enjoy it, let them tire of the game, and let them look forward to the next.

This ain't no Call of Duty or pre-Origins Assassin's Creed here.