Jaxas
Smash Champion
Stale Move Negation
Currently Known Information
Questions needing answered
- What are the reductions in Damage/Knockback for each position and instance in the Stale Move Queue?
- Damage reductions currently appear to carry over from Melee and Brawl.
- I will test further in the future, however this will be a huge project assuming it does not carry over.
- Damage reductions currently appear to carry over from Melee and Brawl.
- How (and when) are multi-hit attacks affected by Stale Move Negation?
Answered Questions
- Is there Stale Move Negation in Smash 4?
- Yes, Stale Move Negation is in Smash 4.
- How many moves are in the Stale Move Queue?
- There are exactly 9 moves in the Stale Move Queue.
- Does Staling only affect Damage or does it also affect Knockback?
- Stale Move Negation affects Knockback as well as damage.
- Are Stale Moves tracked by the attacking player or the player hit?
- No surprise, it's tracked by attacking player.
- How does hitting multiple opponents affect Stale Move Negation?
- When hitting multiple opponents with a single move, the move appears not to degrade before hitting the second opponent, even if one opponent is hit before the 2nd.
- Hitting two opponents with a single move only adds the move into the Stale Move Queue a single time.
- When are projectiles affected by Stale Move Negation?
- Projectiles damage percentages appear to be set upon creation, similarly to how it works in Melee and Brawl. If a second projectile is created before the first one hits, it still deals the same amount of damage as it would if the first projectile was never added into the Stale Move Queue. If a third projectile was then used, it would be staled twice (assuming both example projectiles 1 and 2 hit an opponent).
- Are whiffed attacks added to the Stale Move Queue?
- No, attacks that do not land are not added to the Stale Move Queue.
- Whiffing attacks does not unstale moves in the Stale Move Queue.
- Are shielded attacks entered into the Stale Move Queue?
- Yes, attacks that hit an opponent's shield are still placed in the Stale Move Queue.
- Are moves blocked in specific ways entered into the Stale Move Queue?
- Attacks which hit an invulnerable opponent are not added to the Stale Move Queue.
- Projectiles which hit Link's Hylian Shield are not added into the Stale Move Queue.
- Pocketed Projectiles are not added to the Stale Move Queue.
- Are Stale Moves tracked by the attacking player or the player hit?
- No surprises, it's tracked by attacking player.
- Are there moves that are not subject to Stale Move Decay?
- Yes, it appears that items are not affected by Stale Move Negation. As such, moves such as Link's 'Bombs' and MegaMan's 'Metal Blade' all deal a set amount of damage every time.
- Unlike in the previous games, Stale Move Negation applies to Zairs in Smash 4.
- Are attacks that hit non-player hurtboxes entered into the Stale Move Queue?
- If an attack hits an item with a hurtbox, such as a Crate or Bomb-Omb, it will be added to the Stale Move Queue.
- If an attack hits an object such as Villager's 'Balloon Trip' Balloons, it will not be added to the Stale Move Queue.
- I am unaware of any other objects in the game which share this property with Villager's Balloons, however.
Partially Answered Questions
- What are the requirements for a move to not be entered into the Stale Move Queue, or which moves are not affected by Stale Move Negation?
- Marked as Partially Answered due to lacking the full cast. (Testing with the US Demo Version)
- Item-based Attacks
- Link's 'Bombs'
- MegaMan's 'Metal Blade'
- Tree branch left over after Villager's 'Timber'
- Are Reflected or Countered attacks subject to Stale Move Decay?
- Marked as Partially Answered due to lacking the full cast. (Testing with the US Demo Version)
- Projectiles caught by Villager's 'Pocket' or reflected with Mario's 'Cape' are subject to Stale Move Decay. They appear to deal damage based off of the staleness of the original move, which likely means that the reflectors themselves don't stale, but simply set the reflected damage dealt to a set amount of the original damage dealt.
- No characters in the demo have a counter, and as such I am unable to test this.
- Marked as Partially Answered due to lacking the full cast. (Testing with the US Demo Version)
- Is there still a Freshness Bonus for moves not in the Stale Move Queue, and if so what is it?
- Marked as Partially Answered due to lacking exact percentage of Freshness Bonus.
- There is indeed a Freshness Bonus, and it appears to be 1.05% again. I haven't fully tested that yet, but it appears to at least be within the range of (1.04 < X < 1.12).
- Marked as Partially Answered due to lacking exact percentage of Freshness Bonus.
Original Post
Hey everybody, I'm Jaxas: creator of the Salem Smashfests, and also one of the people working on building the Smash Information Database, which will be a quick-access hub for all the technical knowledge discovered for each game in the series.I'm working with a group of people on gathering as much data about Smash 4 as is humanly possible at this point in time, and we do have the english demos at the moment.
We have confirmed that Stale Move Negation is in the game, and I'm currently trying to figure out the specifics of how it works, but I'm having some difficulties.
If I could get help from the community that would be great, thanks!
Here's some of the information I've gathered so far:
Damage dealt by Link's uncharged Fsmash (1st hit only):
First number is the time (consecutively) the attack lands, 2nd is the change in percent
- 7
- 6
- 6
- 6
- 5
- 4
- 5
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 4
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 4
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 4
- 4
- 3
- 4
- 3
I can tell that it is degrading, but I have been unable to find the point at which the Stale Move Queue ends, as well as the exact degradation equation.
Once I get this figured out, we plan to figure out the exact damage dealt by each attack of the characters in the demo. We have a friend with a Capture Card, so we should be able to start on Frame Data as well.
Anyways, at the moment I'll continue looking into this, however I would be very grateful for assistance in this!
--- EDIT ---
Here's the link to the (Work in progress) SmashInformationDatabase Page
Mechanic: Stale Move Negation
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