Final Destination: Workshop General social thread

[cAm8ooo]

Using your head doesnt create hitstun tho. There are true combos, just few and far between, most of which are two-hitters or gay infinites.

 

[goodoldganon]

I'm interested to see these combos. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just curious at what they are. I kind of agree with cAm. It's either two hitters or infinites. That or super difficult and near impossible to setup footstool combos.

 

[Revven]

I'm interested to see these combos. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just curious at what they are. I kind of agree with cAm. It's either two hitters or infinites. That or super difficult and near impossible to setup footstool combos.

Or the combos are from Utilts and then a Uair right after... we know how Brawl is with Utilts.

 

[GHNeko]

Brawl+ is the same way with Utilts, but to a waaay lesser degree. Utilts are the combo starters for alot of characters, where in 64 and Melee there were way different combo starters. :V

More BKB on Utilts and a little less wind down on Utilts plz.

And less wind down on throws for charactesr (uthrow end lag speed up on marf plz)

 

[Arkaether]

Utilts. Jigglypuff utilt. ****.

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

Squirtle Utilt **** is gay
._.

 

[Plum]

Utilts in general just seem to be a "press button to combo" type thing...

Or in some cases a "press button to kill" thing.

 

[jokey665]

Or in some cases a "press button to kill" thing.

Snake... ಠ_ಠ

 

[CloneHat]

Hell, they hit you up, it's not like you combo your opponent when they're on the ground.

 

[Plum]

Hell, they hit you up, it's not like you combo your opponent when they're on the ground.

Tell that to vBrawl *looks at jab locks and forced getup combos*

XD

 

[GHNeko]

At least Brawl has those things. Though jab locks aren't good. Force getups are a good thing.

What I want to be more apparent are uthrow combos, moves other than upthrow that send up and can combo into other moves (Peach ftilt, Yoshi Ftilt, Ness Dair on the ground) to diversify the combo game so that utilt's aren't the universal starter.

Change the angle of utilts to an angle that allows easy DI reading but now utilt strings, for example, with 0 degrees on the right. Mario's utilt sends at 90 degrees (straight up), change that so that it sends at 75 with higher BKB, less KBG, and less wind down so that utilts send infront of him and he's back into neutral before they are out of hitstun. At low percents, this would lead into grabs which are one of the most diverse and unique ways to combo. At higher percents, it allows mario to combo into his aerial moves will in moving momentum so he doesn't have to use an aerial to move them in the first place.

You see what I'm saying?

You look at Melee and 64, and you see alot of combos dont start with multiple utilts or even utilts but other moves of the characters moveset.

I think a step in this direction will add depth to the combo game and add some difficulty to it as well (ie no easy combs via utilt repetition) and would make character combos look more entertaining overall, at least imo.

But that's my thought on utilts.

 

[VietGeek]

Does anyone know how many frames you are helpless for in a trip?

 

[Nybb]

You look at Melee and 64, and you see alot of combos dont start with multiple utilts or even utilts but other moves of the characters moveset.

Kirby, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Ness, Yoshi, and Link in Smash 64 disagree. However, I completely agree with what you are saying. More than like two u-tilts is too many IMO, except maybe on fast fallers.

On another note, it is time for everyone's favourite game: You rage, you lose
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=49372609

 

[CloneHat]

GameFAQs...lol.

I see hit box adjustment, ariel lag adjustment, 9x speed mod for toadstooling (seriously?), and various adjustments for everything I can imagine. Damage reduction for up B's, 1.5 speed for tilts blah blah blah.

I know. Why did they make such minute changes? Just make all their attacks do 200% and be done with it!

And everones like: "Brawl+ is what brawl should have been!"... No, brawl plus is going to end up being/is a fan made project, that doesnt work how the game is susposed to (the game already works how its susposed to) and will end up being more broken than what people say brawl already is.

I wonder what would happen if GameFAQs tried to make the game better.

Here's just some funny stuff:

Basically, its a sad attempt to do 150 combos at once. "Balance" doesn't come to mind when Ganondorf moves about as fast as sonic and is still doing the same damage.
While interesting, This is NOT brawl. This is the *******azation of an otherwise terrific game - which people can't see though their rose colored nolstaga goggles.

*******ization FTW

Captain Falcon deals 106 damage in 3 moves... check out the recovery at the end... Hes not even anywhere close to the edge but still grabs on. BS.

No comment.

 

[5ive]

Yeah, GameFaqs is pretty ********. I pretty much see spam about Brawl+ everytime I visit the site. A lot of people are ignorant on the topic and it pisses me off to see how these people perceive our project. Whatever, Gamefaqs is full of trolls. You rage you rooose

 

[Revven]

That topic is old, Nybb.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Besides the stupid OP, there actually seems to mostly be people who enjoy Brawl+ in that thread.

It's still unsettling to think some people could be so ignorant about a game and still hate it.

 

[n88]

People hate most what they are ignorant of. Just installed Brawl+ a couple weeks ago, and I'm fairly sure it's not more broken than the original.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Thing is, we buffed a bunch of the worse characters and nerfed some of the better characters, so unless the hitstun made the gap between the good and bad way bigger, the game was obviously made MORE balanced.

 

[Mecakoto]

People hate most what they are ignorant of. Just installed Brawl+ a couple weeks ago, and I'm fairly sure it's not more broken than the original.

3 days ago for me. I've gotten a semi-decent feel for how things work with it and it seems balanced and un-broken. (here is to looking at you Metaknight) It still has a few issues, but they can be worked out. I hope this becomes a tournament standard to be honest. It's fun. It's fast. It's what Brawl should have been.

Also...

Thing is, we buffed a bunch of the worse characters and nerfed some of the better characters, so unless the hitstun made the gap between the good and bad way bigger, the game was obviously made MORE balanced.

This.

 

[GHNeko]

Kirby, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Ness, Yoshi, and Link in Smash 64 disagree. However, I completely agree with what you are saying. More than like two u-tilts is too many IMO, except maybe on fast fallers.

On another note, it is time for everyone's favourite game: You rage, you lose
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=49372609

6 out of like 12. That's half the cast. And Yoshi/Ness can be argued off the list as their DJC options are wait more fruitful than a simple utilt. :V

Allowing utilts to link into aerials/ground moves that send up (other than utilt)/grabs.

I think that would remove the "Easy to combo" stigma from Brawl+, add more depth to the combo game, provide something more entertaining, and you know, push players deeper into the game.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Neko, I can only see the top half of you sig.

 

[Plum]

6 out of like 12. That's half the cast. And Yoshi/Ness can be argued off the list as their DJC options are wait more fruitful than a simple utilt. :V

Allowing utilts to link into aerials/ground moves that send up (other than utilt)/grabs.

I think that would remove the "Easy to combo" stigma from Brawl+, add more depth to the combo game, provide something more entertaining, and you know, push players deeper into the game.

Depth is my new favorite goal for B+ in case nobody noticed.

 

[GHNeko]

Neko, I can only see the top half of you sig.

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

Depth is my new favorite goal for B+ in case nobody noticed.

You and I have a common goal. :V

 

[Nybb]

6 out of like 12. That's half the cast. And Yoshi/Ness can be argued off the list as their DJC options are wait more fruitful than a simple utilt. :V

Well, those six are just the ones that really heavily use utilts for combos. Everyone in 64 uses small u-tilt strings except for Falcon and Samus with their axe kicks. And the Yoshi/Ness thing is very debatable...Yoshi's u-tilt is like his BnB comboing move, it has pretty much set knockback and combos into dair for damage and usmash for kills. And Ness' u-tilt has way more range in like every direction than any of his aerials, so it is generally way safer.

Enough nitpicking though. Depth rules, and I'm glad you guys are pushing for stuff like this.

You rage you lose, round 2

 

[GHNeko]

Brawl+ could seriously use more depth. Depth is always good when mixed with balance. :V

 

[Sukai]

Depth = ATs
ATs = Competitive Play Discussion - fail

I'm all for the idea.

 

[sagemoon]

Check out fears mario combo vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8IHv7Buni4

 

[goodoldganon]

Check out fears mario combo vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8IHv7Buni4

Mario is too cool. I love watching good Mario's. Everything he does links so well. Good stuff.

EDIT: lulz at Sonic music in a Mario combo vid

 

[Sukai]

Good **** there.

 

[Arkaether]

Anyone else have a first reaction to 4:31 in that vid of "OH **** MARIO BE BEATING HIS WIFE"?

 

[Sukai]

Anyone else have a first reaction to 4:31 in that vid of "OH **** MARIO BE BEATING HIS WIFE"?

lol mario haz no wife he has a brother.

 

[Arkaether]

I meant, "OH **** MARIO BE BEATING HIS WOMAN".

 

[bleyva]

NOOB QUESTION:

not sure if this is the place to ask, but could someone explain this "depth" concept for me? i feel like people use this phrase as an all-encompassing justification for certain changes/tradeoffs for characters, but i still dont get what it means or how it would apply to this project.

 

[goodoldganon]

NOOB QUESTION:

not sure if this is the place to ask, but could someone explain this "depth" concept for me? i feel like people use this phrase as an all-encompassing justification for certain changes/tradeoffs for characters, but i still dont get what it means or how it would apply to this project.

Well played sir

 

[Arkaether]

That pic is ****ing epic.

 

[smashbro29]

That is quite the epic pic you got there.

 

[Sukai]

NOOB QUESTION:

not sure if this is the place to ask, but could someone explain this "depth" concept for me? i feel like people use this phrase as an all-encompassing justification for certain changes/tradeoffs for characters, but i still dont get what it means or how it would apply to this project.

Well, I can't speak for the people actually working on it.

But I think the depth concept is something that can be developed on in nightly builds. As I previously stated in the competitive play discussion, depth is more sensibly found in movement than it does attacks,examples include--

• Foxcopter
• Moonwalking (melee)
• Illusion cancelling
• Foxcopter
• Glidetossing

and more of course, so perhaps if the team were to look into how they could make a recovery cancelable, or add in a few nice nitpicks here and there, and put it out for testing, then that would be just fine.

In hindsight, depth can be found in attacks--hitbox-wise, like Falcon's reverse knee, Roy's reverse Blazer, Doc's Super Jump Punch cancel, and it turns out that quite a few attacks have multiple hitboxes, it's be neat to make a hitbox more obscure and make it do something unorthodox, sweetspotting Mario's forward air to be as strong as Melee Doctor Mario's fist of ****.
Or give Luigi hidden spiking hitboxes in a few of his moves. Or make a certain part of a 9 Donkey Punch make the victim fly in the opposite direction. The plausibility may vary depending on the player's perspective, but it would be interesting none the less.
I think the biggest challenge is making sure the change is subtle enough to not be written off as a buff/nerf, but just something that winds up being discovered.
So, there are guidelines to follow when trying to add depth, and with this, it can easily apply well to the game and even better to the project.

Did that do your question justice?

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234940

If you're in SoCal, I am hosting a + tourney on Friday. Day beforehand heads up!

 

[stingers]

West Coast has a pretty fail B+ scene Good luck getting it to catch on!