Footstool Double Jab Lock (Video Up)

[Neb]

Good, G&W isn't on the list, .
Nice lock though.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

I'll mess around and test this out for a bit.

 

[w!ld ch!ld]

can't they just di straight up and do whatever they want they can even fsj you first if they reall want

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I'm going to be home today Jeepy. I'll help you test. What's your AIM?

It's JeepySol, but I need to add you for you to be able to see me.

 

[Gedennnnn]

k mines mellamogeden

 

[cAm8ooo]

Make sure this is real. Kirby's FSJ -> Jab lock combo is easily escapable 100% of the time. Before his fast-falled Nair, the footstooled opponent can simply roll out of the way of the hit. Jigglypuff's is closer to the ground, so it may actually work, but ya'll should probably double check that this isn't escapable before you spend time practicing with it.

Check again Panda, i fixed the combo for specific characters, you can no longer roll out of the way of the fast falled N-air.

By the way, you pretty much have to hit them before they stop bouncing off the ground, otherwise it doesnt work. A human player can roll out of it 100% of the time as mentioned by Panda here. We only got the kirby combo to work on specific characters after a short-hopped footstool, I recommend trying this on Samus, she bounces higher then other players for some reason. You can Short hop footstool a ROB the easiest, so test it on him as well.

Good luck and i may help test it if u want.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

I only tested this for a hour with a friend (I wouldn't of sat there for that long with the sole intent of "get up or roll as soon as you get FSJ'd") against Snake. DI doesn't make a difference against a rising pound that hits late, and we didn't test with utilt until the end (So we didn't get around to the different DI with it). You can start the pound almost aimed at his head (a little lower) and the vertical peak of the rising pound will hit at the very end of the animation still. It's a pretty easy deal after that, he never gets out of footstool range and the FF-Sourspotted Nair is pretty easy to get down.

Here's my question though.

In the OP and the Video, it suggests to use Jab Jab. But it seems like whomever you're jab locking goes less distance with just the single Jab. I think Jab Jab twice would be good to start out the Jab Lock (since it's pretty much guaranteed to be fresh/not decayed) , then switching to a single Jab only for the rest of the duration. On top of that, you'll refresh the move queue more with the single jabs, since there's barely any knockback/distance traveled with it (atleast half of the Jab Jab's knockback/distance).

Is there a specific reason for it being pure Jab Jab, instead of switching it up from 2x Jab Jab to Single Jabs?

 

[Jeepy Sol]

k mines mellamogeden

Cool. I'll add you.

Good luck and i may help test it if u want.

That'd be great! It looks like you have some experience with this sort of thing. : )

I only tested this for a hour with a friend (I wouldn't of sat there for that long with the sole intent of "get up or roll as soon as you get FSJ'd") against Snake. DI doesn't make a difference against a rising pound that hits late, and we didn't test with utilt until the end (So we didn't get around to the different DI with it). You can start the pound almost aimed at his head (a little lower) and the vertical peak of the rising pound will hit at the very end of the animation still. It's a pretty easy deal after that, he never gets out of footstool range and the FF-Sourspotted Nair is pretty easy to get down.

Here's my question though.

In the OP and the Video, it suggests to use Jab Jab. But it seems like whomever you're jab locking goes less distance with just the single Jab. I think Jab Jab twice would be good to start out the Jab Lock (since it's pretty much guaranteed to be fresh/not decayed) , then switching to a single Jab only for the rest of the duration. On top of that, you'll refresh the move queue more with the single jabs, since there's barely any knockback/distance traveled with it (atleast half of the Jab Jab's knockback/distance).

Is there a specific reason for it being pure Jab Jab, instead of switching it up from 2x Jab Jab to Single Jabs?

Thanks for testing!

About the Jab thing: You're probably right. The only advantage to Double Jab is that you can rack up more damage, thus increasing the chances of being able to KO with Rest. Plus, Double Jab doesn't work very well on some characters, but on others, it works really well.

 

[illinialex24]

This is amazing, once I get back I'm abusing this to the full.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Okay, good news.

I haven't tested this other than recreating it (it just happened), but landing the end of a sourspot nair at higher percents on the ground sends an opponent in a very low vertical trajectory hitstun that they don't get out of (it pretty much has it's own animation for being hit at high percents with the sourspot nair, I haven't seen it before now) until they "hit" the ground. They can't shield because they're not on the ground (they're definitely in the air during this, I managed a footstool and didn't know quite what happened when Sonic went immediately to the ground, so I recreated it in training), they can't airdodge from the hitstun either.

But, I'm not sure how good this would be for a lock, they may hit the ground too fast for us to start it up (As in, they could get up or roll before we hit with another sourspot nair). I'll start testing this though, the more setups we have for a lock (even if it's not good for a lock setup, I know it can have other applications.. dair -> Rest at the least), the better . Here's how I did it so whomever can fool around with it if they want to. I'll try and get some percents up later on today.

Do a full jump and hit with the very ending of a nair at their head (this probably won't work well, if at all, on small characters *glares at Olimar*), and then mash jump for the footstool. It's gotta be the very end of Nair though, don't go in with half of the animation left or you won't be free to follow it up.

 

[Gedennnnn]

I only tested this for a hour with a friend (I wouldn't of sat there for that long with the sole intent of "get up or roll as soon as you get FSJ'd") against Snake. DI doesn't make a difference against a rising pound that hits late, and we didn't test with utilt until the end (So we didn't get around to the different DI with it). You can start the pound almost aimed at his head (a little lower) and the vertical peak of the rising pound will hit at the very end of the animation still. It's a pretty easy deal after that, he never gets out of footstool range and the FF-Sourspotted Nair is pretty easy to get down.

Here's my question though.

In the OP and the Video, it suggests to use Jab Jab. But it seems like whomever you're jab locking goes less distance with just the single Jab. I think Jab Jab twice would be good to start out the Jab Lock (since it's pretty much guaranteed to be fresh/not decayed) , then switching to a single Jab only for the rest of the duration. On top of that, you'll refresh the move queue more with the single jabs, since there's barely any knockback/distance traveled with it (atleast half of the Jab Jab's knockback/distance).

Is there a specific reason for it being pure Jab Jab, instead of switching it up from 2x Jab Jab to Single Jabs?

Yeah, the reason I called it double jab lock was just to distinguish it from other jab locks. The single jab lock works fine too though.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Yeah, the reason I called it double jab lock was just to distinguish it from other jab locks. The single jab lock works fine too though.

Ahhh, that was actually kind of obvious, surprised I didn't catch on xD. Good to know now though.

 

[Gedennnnn]

Im going to put a couple of these posts in the OT now that I'm home. Thanks to everyone helping test this.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Hey Gedennnnn, you should take DDD and Sonic off that list. Charizard's still a maybe.

Anyway, I will be making a video showcasing it against each character that she is able to do it against.

 

[Gedennnnn]

K.I'll do it when I get home from school its a pain editting on my phone lol.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Got a bit sidetracked, I'm gonna get to work on doing tests on the %'s of the nair -> FSJ as a lock. I've already got a feeling it's escapeable, but maybe there's a character or two it could work against. It's worth checking out, I'll be back with my results later tonight.

 

[Gedennnnn]

Are you sure it won't work on Wario because thats the first person I tried it on and it worked for me. Though it makes sense that it wouldn't because he has the most vertical movement. Is it because he DI's after the pound?

 

[cAm8ooo]

Alright, i tested this for a little bit and bad news Jigglypuffs. It turns out it's pretty much just like the kirby jab lock combo but maybe a little worse. I'm 90% positive the set up INTO footstool is easily escapable. Theres too much post lag after Pound to jump before they can, (dang hitstun). BUT.... if you do footstool them the combo will work on specific characters. I only tested the few that it worked with kirby on and 1 or 2 others. So far i know that if you footstool them, this combo will work on Samus, Game and Watch and ROB. Kirby's could also work on kirby, but i couldn't get Jiggly's to.

It works on Samus cuz she bounces higher then other players, it works on ROB because you can footstool him so short with a short-hopped footstool, and i think it works on G&W because he has a little bit of a wierder animation then the others.

Feel free to test all the other characters, im just too lazy.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Alright, i tested this for a little bit and bad news Jigglypuffs. It turns out it's pretty much just like the kirby jab lock combo but maybe a little worse. I'm 90% positive the set up INTO footstool is easily escapable. Theres too much post lag after Pound to jump before they can, (dang hitstun). BUT.... if you do footstool them the combo will work on specific characters. I only tested the few that it worked with kirby on and 1 or 2 others. So far i know that if you footstool them, this combo will work on Samus, Game and Watch and ROB. Kirby's could also work on kirby, but i couldn't get Jiggly's to.

It works on Samus cuz she bounces higher then other players, it works on ROB because you can footstool him so short with a short-hopped footstool, and i think it works on G&W because he has a little bit of a wierder animation then the others.

Feel free to test all the other characters, im just too lazy.

Not that you were doing it wrong, but you were doing it wrong? I've only tested Snake myself, but I'm sure it works on him (which is good news). Make sure it's the last frames of a rising pound that connect, they're in hitstun long enough that they can't airdodge before the footstool. Maybe it doesn't work on other characters (), but snake is a definite.


Bad news on my end too. It looks like this is a Sonic-only footstool from a sourspot Nair, and even then it's pretty hard to pull off. It works between 88-92% and you want to footstool just before he does his "pushing up off the ground" animation (he doesn't fall over, he flails back and then pushes off the ground in this animation". I'm putting this as useless, but maybe someone else can find a use for it.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Can sleep put opponents to sleep when they r in hit sutn b/c if that is the case u could use sleep immediately after Footstool

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Can sleep put opponents to sleep when they r in hit sutn b/c if that is the case u could use sleep immediately after Footstool

You can only put someone to sleep when they're standing up or doing a ground move. You can't put them to sleep if they're airborne at all, or if they're already on the ground.


Here's a rhyme to help commit it to memory:

If they're not on their feet, they can't be put to sleep.

 

[Gedennnnn]

Can sleep put opponents to sleep when they r in hit sutn b/c if that is the case u could use sleep immediately after Footstool

Your sig is impressive to say the least.

 

[cAm8ooo]

It could possibly work on Snake, i didn't test him. The set up may work, but i know for a FACT that you can roll out of the footstool with many characters. Most characters could against kirby, and he even falls faster then jiggly im pretty sure.

Also Gonzo, im glad to see you've come to help the other Pink puff balls around here but three posts..... did you make a new account or something????? What did you get banned for?

 

[~Gonzo~]

lol i got banned for posting a large picture of my sig (a more revealing one) on the funny brawl pics and got banned lol so i decided it was time to make a new account with my Brawl name instead.

I'm seeing how they do the combo and Jigz stays pretty low to the ground compared to Kirby. I dont know how the physics of Jigz Dair works but perhaps hitting with just the first part of the Dair may work. Also are there anyother moves besides rising punch that can setup a footstool? If Dair hits ur opponent upwards after u hit the ground their maybe enough stuntime to jump and get a footstool. If the knockback is also low this might become a Dair, footstool, Dair, repeat combo. Just thinking

 

[~Gonzo~]

i didnt mean to double post sorry!!!

 

[cAm8ooo]

lol but it's such a good sig

Hmmm, i dont know if D-air works, ill test it tomorrow if no one else does by then. I'm pretty sure jiggly doesn't go much lower then kirby though, and he falls slower. Maybe it'll work though, I'm all for some low tier characters getting some combos

 

[~Gonzo~]

tru that, sick nasty ones at that.

so i found out that Bair falls faster than Nair. Perhaps uall should start using Bair instead

 

[Gedennnnn]

I'm not sure that would work. Doesn't it have to much knock back?

 

[~Gonzo~]

no, just the same as neutral A, plus since ur falling the knockback is different than from the tip of a Bair

 

[cAm8ooo]

Yes, B-air and F-air both work much better then N-air and will be able to combo more people. N-air is just too slow.

So far i know that its easiest to use F-air on Samus, and B-air on ROB.

 

[~Gonzo~]

plus fastfalling Bair or Fair is much easier than Nair

 

[Crazy Cloud]

I can land the sourspot fair fine, but what's the timing on the bair? I always manage to screw it up with either a sweetspot, or a complete whiff. fair is much faster (and easier imo) than a sourspotted nair, that's for sure.

 

[~Gonzo~]

its all about what move gets u to the ground soonest, i'm not sure if Fair is faster than Bair in terms of how fast Jiggz falls but the one that falls faster is the one u want to use so as to increase the number of characters this combo will work on

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Is anyone else having trouble with simply steping foward? I can do the combo fine up until then. Thats right, I can do all the complicated stuff, just not walking, lol. I've even been able to do it with the fair (and it is faster). So, what do you guys suggest for stepping forward, I either walk too little, or break into a run. How are you pressing the control stick for one step?

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Is anyone else having trouble with simply steping foward? I can do the combo fine up until then. Thats right, I can do all the complicated stuff, just not walking, lol. I've even been able to do it with the fair (and it is faster). So, what do you guys suggest for stepping forward, I either walk too little, or break into a run. How are you pressing the control stick for one step?

After the lock is started up, I go from Jab Jab 2x to just a single Jab. They go less distance with the single jab, so it doesn't require as much movement. As far as walking, I dunno. I practiced that pivot sliding AT for awhile for Sheik (which turned out pretty useless for her), but I guess the walk -> Jab isn't hard because of that reason.

Try practicing that I guess?

 

[~Gonzo~]

tilt ur control stick about halfway every time u need to walk but tilt it quick so u break into the walk animation very quickly

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

After the lock is started up, I go from Jab Jab 2x to just a single Jab. They go less distance with the single jab, so it doesn't require as much movement. As far as walking, I dunno. I practiced that pivot sliding AT for awhile for Sheik (which turned out pretty useless for her), but I guess the walk -> Jab isn't hard because of that reason.

Try practicing that I guess?

Ya, that sounds like a more practical idea to do the one jab. I'll try it either way. Wait, what is Pivot sliding?

tilt ur control stick about halfway every time u need to walk but tilt it quick so u break into the walk animation very quickly

Alright, thanks. That sounds like it will work. I was having trouble walking too slow.

Edit: Ok, I've got it down pretty good now. I tryed it with the double jab, but Dk kept getting up after about 3 or 4 double jabs. I use a Wiimote/numchuck, and the walking think is harder to do than on the gamecube. I have had more luck with switching to single jab, and can travel across the stage with it. It's not all that hard to pull off, and can cripple an opponent (espeically from 0%) even if it doesn't kill. I think we will see more of this, if we can pull it off consistantly. It's awesome.

 

[Crazy Cloud]

Ya, that sounds like a more practical idea to do the one jab. I'll try it either way. Wait, what is Pivot sliding?

It's where, you walk while pivoting back and forward to gain momentum quickly. Some characters it works really well with (Link especially). I thought maybe it'd be good with Sheik. Turned out she didn't keep any momentum in her attacks (like, a tiny-tiny bit, not worth the trouble overall).

Here's a video incase that wasn't a good enough explanation.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=t6jdzQteqiA

It's useless for Jiggs though xD. She's too slow on the ground to get anything out of it.

It's not all that hard to pull off, and can cripple an opponent (espeically from 0%) even if it doesn't kill. I think we will see more of this, if we can pull it off consistantly. It's awesome.

Yeah, especially with next to no one maining Jiggs who frequent tourneys, it'll always be good to take care of first round scrubs.

EDIT

Do you switch your Sig everyday Gonzo? Always a surprise to see what's gonna load on the screen xD.

 

[FuFu300]

This is hard to pull off over wi-fi for me. I can ever get the footstool off, I either press Y too early or too late.

*sigh*

 

[ndayday]

I haven't tried this on wifi but I know it's gonna be a pain...and i've only tested it on CPU's so I don't know how it will work on a human.