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Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.
- Thread starter Marc
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iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Your logic amuses me.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Temp Ban is the way to go, not for the "metagame catching up" bull ****.
But to test the waters before doing anything that may be harmful to the community.
Of course, TOs are much less likely to follow a temp ban.
But to test the waters before doing anything that may be harmful to the community.
Of course, TOs are much less likely to follow a temp ban.
mikeray4
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 707
That is crap d3 ***** snake you have no idea how hard that match up for snake is. olimar is just as bad. anyone that thinks snake has no bad match ups has no clue about snake and should play as snake to see why he is hard to use. anyone with a solid understainding of snake no what exactly you have to do to beat him. He wins by power and weight,people lose to snake because they want to hurry up and kill him if they get killed first, but thats not what you do. you have to gay out snakeThis man speaks truth.
Anybody who thinks that Snake has a single bad match-up or even "gets *****" by any character is very, very, VERY wrong. Snake doesn't lose a single match-up and there are maybe 2 or 3 that are not in his favour.
PS: Don't ban MK. Snake is better
BIGM1994
Smash Champion
MK is not gonna be banned u scrubs
Palpi
Smash Hero
I have watched Atomsk play against top snakes and it isn't **** he usually wins, but it isn't ****. I think I recall chops beating co18 too, could've been a fluke, I know he was camping smashville platform like crazy, but still.
Regardless of 2~ random matches, the match up is not ****.
Regardless of 2~ random matches, the match up is not ****.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
He most likely would stay banned if the "slippery slope" of one character filling out the gap doesn't happen.
BIGM1994
Smash Champion
olimar isnt that bad if you know the matchup, if you know it well its 50/50. And d3 and snake is 50/50 also. Mk imo is 50/50 wit 3 characters, dem being diddy, wario, snake, snake is 55/45 meta to me.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Ok....? Have fun doing that.
GwJ
Smash Hero
You're speaking from just a Snake perspective. Assuming both players know the matchup, they're not even.
For those of you who don't understand, the Pro-Ban side holds the burden of proof.
Thus if the public poll ends with Pro-Ban 51% and Anti-Ban 49%, the Anti-Ban side "wins".
The reason is because you need more than just barely over 50% to implement a change in a coexisting.
A majority vote (which is needed to get MK banned) is 66%.
So as I said before, the Pro-Ban side has never "won".
Thus if the public poll ends with Pro-Ban 51% and Anti-Ban 49%, the Anti-Ban side "wins".
The reason is because you need more than just barely over 50% to implement a change in a coexisting.
A majority vote (which is needed to get MK banned) is 66%.
So as I said before, the Pro-Ban side has never "won".
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
No problems for me there >_>
so after thinking about this some more recently, I have an interesting conflict
I don't think that meta knight is broken, but I'm just very curious to see how the game would evolve without him, we all have these hypothetical theories about who would dominate without MK, my sense of curiosity makes me want to vote yes -_-
I don't think that meta knight is broken, but I'm just very curious to see how the game would evolve without him, we all have these hypothetical theories about who would dominate without MK, my sense of curiosity makes me want to vote yes -_-
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
Are you purposefully mixing up 2 concepts? Burden of proof and majority vote are in no way related. Something could be proven consequently and it being split down the middle could still happen. Don't do that, it's ridiculous.
If you want to say that the pro-ban side has never gotten 2/3 of the vote, just say that. Definition of "winning" and "winning by a large enough margin to constitute a change" are also blatantly different.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
MK doesn't really help the community. This thread shouldn't exist if he did.
mikeray4
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 707
lol d3 and snake being 50/50
I must have forgot that snake beats d3 in the air, and the ground....
Snake only has 1 thing on d3 nades. nothing else. d3 wins in the air and on the ground, he just can be outcamped...sometimes.
Rapax
Smash Apprentice
Well, i never played against a good Meta-Knight, but i don't see anyway any reason for banning any character.
I know he can be hell. But many characters can be hell. King DDD for example, or the Ice Climbers. Both have insane chaingrabs... But nobody would ever think of banning them...
And if i watch some videos, there seems to be many ways of sending MK in the land of dreams... Many MK's i see there are spamming the same attack all over the time until you reach 200% or so and then sending you to the universe...
I think there is no reason for banning him, there are ways to beat him. And as long as he isn't unbeatable there is no reason for get banned.
But well i'm just a casual player, so i might not be the right person for decide such things^^
Best wishes, Rapax =)
I know he can be hell. But many characters can be hell. King DDD for example, or the Ice Climbers. Both have insane chaingrabs... But nobody would ever think of banning them...
And if i watch some videos, there seems to be many ways of sending MK in the land of dreams... Many MK's i see there are spamming the same attack all over the time until you reach 200% or so and then sending you to the universe...
I think there is no reason for banning him, there are ways to beat him. And as long as he isn't unbeatable there is no reason for get banned.
But well i'm just a casual player, so i might not be the right person for decide such things^^
Best wishes, Rapax =)
GwJ
Smash Hero
Exactly, you're a casual player who probably doesn't even understand how MK is affecting this game, nor have you even played a good MK.
BIGM1994
Smash Champion
On the matchup thing it says ther 50/50 idk bout the matchup anyways, also why would one of you snake mainers want mk banned? snake is 55/45 mk..i dont see why
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
Can you stop dropping numbers you just picked up arbitrarily that you don't even understand the concepts behind?
Rapax
Smash Apprentice
Yes i know =)
But tell me facts. How many tournaments where a MK was playing have won a MK?
Of course not 100%, right? (please tell me if i'm not correct)
So what tells us this? That there are enough ways to beat him, so why banning him?
And i have read that Sheik and Marth were in Melee also crucial. But nobody banned them... So why MK? Tell me. =)
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
No. No, you're wrong.
The talk about banning him doesn't help the community.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
More MKs means less D3, Falco, Pika, Olimar, and other more difficult Snake matchups.
*EDIT: Misread your post, nevermind.
Snake does not beat MK.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
BIGM1994
Smash Champion
Yea..it does. unless they changed it
I'd honestly see the smartest concept being...if there isnt a "HUGE" margin between the votes, but yes still wins say...55% to 45%...then we have a temp ban for like 2 or so months, see how it is, and if we like it just keep it.
If the margins are lower than that..like even then we just keep on goinnnnn wit da metaknightz.
If the margins are lower than that..like even then we just keep on goinnnnn wit da metaknightz.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Lets keep bringing up temp bans than having people shoot it down!
UberMario
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2009
- Messages
- 3,312
Hmmmm, seems to be a bit strong for a ban for only having a 10% lead . . . . .
Azuzu
Smash Cadet
I agree here, whether or not he's banned, threads like this only serve to divide. Unfortunately, neither side can be blamed for wanting what they do...
The plain and simple fact is, the community will suffer if mk is banned, becoming even more divided over the topic. I think 6 months to a year down the road though, the community will greatly benefit, so I like to think of it as a "long term" investment.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
People always get off topic, it's in the Internet's nature. -_-
This thread is not General Match-up Discussion. Continue with whether MK should be banned or not.
Edit: I guess I don't have a warm heart for MK players, sorry about that.
That site is probably the best thing to ever happen to forum debates.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Snake/DDD is around even.
Mike go ask Seibrik, CO18, Afro, etc. on advice for the matchup. It's MUCH closer than you may think. Afro's sets with CO and Seibrik's DDDs are usually real close, and I'd be willing to vouch they're some of the most knowledgeable players on that matchup (sounds like I'm being biased for FL players >_> however I've never seen someone as knowledgeable on Snake/DDD as those three).
I will not comment for Olimar/Snake or Snake/MK because I don't know anything about the former and I don't even think the latter is 100% set in stone yet, although I doubt Snake beats MK 55/45.
Mike go ask Seibrik, CO18, Afro, etc. on advice for the matchup. It's MUCH closer than you may think. Afro's sets with CO and Seibrik's DDDs are usually real close, and I'd be willing to vouch they're some of the most knowledgeable players on that matchup (sounds like I'm being biased for FL players >_> however I've never seen someone as knowledgeable on Snake/DDD as those three).
I will not comment for Olimar/Snake or Snake/MK because I don't know anything about the former and I don't even think the latter is 100% set in stone yet, although I doubt Snake beats MK 55/45.
mikeray4
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 707
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
The thing is. Even if it a little harmful for the first month, the following months will be such an explosion of growth, freedom, understanding, joy, that you could fill a year's worth or more. No longer will a majority of a character's strategy be around defeating MK, but instead be based around how to defeat every character.
Why is basically every character's main strategy based around beating MK? MK is the most common character at tournies, and will often be your Semi-Final or Final match due to how much of him there is. Him being the 'safe' choice makes him the most popular. He is also the best character with no disadvantages, so you can't CP him and make the opponent have an uphill battle like you could if he was Snake or D3.
MK breaks the CP system, thats one strike.
MK has no bad matchups, thats strike two.
MK over-centralizes the game, thats strike three and he is out!
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