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Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

Should Meta Knight be banned from competitive Brawl?


  • Total voters
    3,010
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Red Arremer

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
11,437
Location
Vienna
That's just peachy, except that Ganondorf isn't the best ledgestaller and MK is. Your hypothetical anecdote means nothing.
That's just peachy that Meta Knight will dominate even further and everyone will switch to him, except that doesn't happen right now. Your hypothetical anecdote means nothing.

See, I can do it too.

I repeat: The technique would have been banned, independently from Meta Knight.

BTW, "easier to do" isn't what I said, stop twisting my words. Point is that MK's is virtually uncounterable and any other character who can plank can do it badly or ineffectually at best. I guess maybe Bowser can do it pretty well against some characters. I beg you, please mockingly argue that we should "BAN BOWSER TOO LOL?"
No, but if you say that Ledgestalling has only been banned because of Meta Knight being able to do it, that's simply wrong. You admit yourself that other characters are able to do it. It's a broken technique. It has been banned. It doesn't matter whom is able to do it.
That's like saying that Dedede's standing Infinite has been banned because of Meta Knight.

Also Eddie and Third Strike Chun Li. Let's see if someone gets it. :)
I get it.
I chip in: Remilia.

Do you have any videos of other characters planking in tournament play to the extent that metaknight already has displayed?
Do you have tournament results of Meta Knight winning just because of Planking?
 
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Spadefox said:
That's just peachy that Meta Knight will dominate even further and everyone will switch to him, except that doesn't happen right now. Your hypothetical anecdote means nothing.
See: Canada


See, I can do it too.

I repeat: The technique would have been banned, independently from Meta Knight.
Welp, it doesn't matter, because MK is currently the only character doing it to any effect.

Spadefox said:
No, but if you say that Ledgestalling has only been banned because of Meta Knight being able to do it, that's simply wrong. You admit yourself that other characters are able to do it. It's a broken technique. It has been banned. It doesn't matter whom is able to do it.
Once again, in hypothetical happy land, this matters. In the real world where ledge stalling is a Meta Knight-specific technique outside of a few really terrible and ineffectual examples (such as ZSS' down-b stall that does no damage and was classified as stalling prior to planking's rise and Bowser's Fortress Plank which sucks against most characters), it was banned because Meta Knight could abuse the technique to absolutely ludicrous extremes. I hope we've cleared this up now.

In before "LOL IF CAPTAIN FALCON COULD PLANK WE'D HAVE BANNED IT" that doesn't matter freaking stop saying it like it does thanks

Spadefox said:
That's like saying that Dedede's standing Infinite has been banned because of Meta Knight.
No, because Meta Knight cannot perform standing infinites better than King Dedede (except during Giant Brawl LOL).

Spadefox said:
Do you have tournament results of Meta Knight winning just because of Planking?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg LOL in before old video as though that matters
 

Masmasher@

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,408
Location
Cleveland, Ohio! my homeplace but for now living i
I'd really love to know if anyone is part of/done actual research on other fighting game scenes BESIDES ****ing Street Fighter or Soul Calibur, because it seems like most smashers don't know that there are other fighting games out there besides those two. I'm not gonna lie, but just because you mush buttons and played the SF games doesn't mean your words are truth. Hell, it's not even the most played/liked fighter in Japan at the current moment.

If you:
-Haven't even tried a doujin fighter and assume it's a silly animu game like Guilty Gear (which it ISN'T).
-Think Sagat should be banned.
-Call Carl a ****ty character.
-Believe Smash is more technical than KOF and Virtua Fighter combined.
-Believe that just because you played a lot of SF games means you could tell someone off instantly.

Then don't even bother ****ing replying.

Also Eddie and Third Strike Chun Li. Let's see if someone gets it. :)
What are you really saying? CARL Without his loops is ****ty
I play virtua fighter dude.. Akira main lol And no its completely obvious that one frame knee to double jab to byakko doublepalm is WAY more complicated then anything you get in smash.
Yes there are other fighting games besides those 2 but we use them cause they are easy to name off. I tell people off if they have miscontrued ideas of what a fighting games/ the reality of what competition is...

But what are you asking from this post
 
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I'd really love to know if anyone is part of/done actual research on other fighting game scenes BESIDES ****ing Street Fighter or Soul Calibur, because it seems like most smashers don't know that there are other fighting games out there besides those two. I'm not gonna lie, but just because you mush buttons and played the SF games doesn't mean your words are truth. Hell, it's not even the most played/liked fighter in Japan at the current moment.

If you:
-Haven't even tried a doujin fighter and assume it's a silly animu game like Guilty Gear (which it ISN'T).
-Think Sagat should be banned.
-Call Carl a ****ty character.
-Believe Smash is more technical than KOF and Virtua Fighter combined.
-Believe that just because you played a lot of SF games means you could tell someone off instantly.

Then don't even bother ****ing replying.

Also Eddie and Third Strike Chun Li. Let's see if someone gets it. :)
Stop comparing SSBB to a regular fighting game. It is NOT a regular fighter. Also, those two are ludicrously overpowered and have between one and 0 bad matchups while ****** the rest of the cast. As whatshisname said earlier, a more fair comparison would be to a game like Mario Kart; i.e. a game that is not competetive.
 

Galuuda

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
479
Location
Ocala, Fl
I'd really love to know if anyone is part of/done actual research on other fighting game scenes BESIDES ****ing Street Fighter or Soul Calibur, because it seems like most smashers don't know that there are other fighting games out there besides those two. I'm not gonna lie, but just because you mush buttons and played the SF games doesn't mean your words are truth. Hell, it's not even the most played/liked fighter in Japan at the current moment.

If you:
-Haven't even tried a doujin fighter and assume it's a silly animu game like Guilty Gear (which it ISN'T).
-Think Sagat should be banned.
-Call Carl a ****ty character.
-Believe Smash is more technical than KOF and Virtua Fighter combined.
-Believe that just because you played a lot of SF games means you could tell someone off instantly.

Then don't even bother ****ing replying.

Also Eddie and Third Strike Chun Li. Let's see if someone gets it. :)
Stop acting like a god and shut up, read what the forum is about and then post........******..
 

Omniturtle

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
17
Location
Massachusetts
Pro-Ban

Omniturtle - Haverhill, MA (Fitchburg State College) Falco/Fox Main

I know that I am technically a noob in the Brawl world, but I've spent enough time on smashboards, on youtube, in practice-mode, and in vs mode with friends who constantly grow as I do and cycle between beating me and losing to me. I may not represent the high level play, but I will take a stand for the mid-level players out there who are suffering. As a mid-level player, it is my job to learn from the best. It is my job to evolve my own strategies around not only the pros' to which I aspire, but also my own personal style and experience. Mid-level players all dream of being high-level players, and many do realize that goal, typically; however, the mid-level is struggling through the worst conflict that the Smash community has ever seen.

Mid-level players thrive on the experience they gain from watching and playing against higher-level players. This is the lifeblood of competitive play. Right now, mid-level players should be learning from the best, and eventually learning to incorporate their own ideas into their strategies, as they transcend from mere parrots, squacking back every strategy they see, to fierce strategists capable of thinking for themselves. Sadly, the biggest problem right now is that The Best are all busy either learning to play metaknight or learning how to beat metaknight. I will say right now that I WILL LEAVE ALL MATTERS CONCERNING HIGH-LEVEL PLAY TO HIGH-LEVEL PLAYERS. It is not my intention to claim that I have a rightful say in what happens between high-level players; but right now, the problem has infected my home turf. Mid-level players are suffering and it must stop now.

Metaknight is NOT held within the bounds of the normal "give-and-take" character model. Every other character is held to a balanced character model which always includes a give and take of various advantages. This is NOT counterpicking, it has nothing to do with intercharacter relations. This is the basic design of a character itself. Faster characters usually sacrifice power, and ofter weight-advantages. Stronger characters often lose the speed advantage, as well as often being larger targets, more easily sweet-spotted, with weaker shields. Possibly the most extreme examples would be Sheik and Donkey Kong. Sheik is among the fastest characters in the game, with high-end combo potential. Her downfall is that she is limited in her killing options and dies easily. Excluding various gimps which I am fully aware of, her strength-based killing game revolves entirely around her up-smash and her back-air. Her light weight makes her easy to KO. This is quite a balanced trade of strengths and weaknesses. Donkey Kong is a massive character, who has the power to KO at unbelievably low percents. His problem, however, is that he is slow, and cannot easily combo into his strongest hits. Everyone knows that DK is a momentum character. When he's winning, he's destroying, but the second the tide shifts, he's in serious trouble. DK has a very weak defense when considering both his somewhat useless shield, and his massive size which always manages to be just big enough to get hit. The trade-off to DK's overwhelming might is that he is almost exclusively reduced to a back-air approach. Anything else he has is too slow, or situational. This, again, is a very well-balanced trade of strengths and weaknesses. The problem with metaknight AS A CHARACTER is that he has no such balance. Supposedly he is a fast character (understatement) who should have trouble KOing, and should be worried about low% deaths because he only weighs 2 lb. The truth is that neither of these weaknesses appear in Metaknight. Metaknight's KO game is beyond any other character in the game, but just as I did with Shiek, I will steer clear of his tremendous gimping potential while I'm on the subject of power as a trade-off. Metaknight's forward smash, down smash, and upB all have incredible killing power, and while the smashes would honestly not boost him up to powerhouse status, they are, at the very least, within the middle-weight/speed category. His down-smash, especially, poses a problem, whereby a Metaknight has access to an instantaneous attack with the power to kill at low-end reasonable percents. The upB is the real kicker, because it does have I-frames, and comes out instantly, especially from a shield. Now beyond any other issue, the biggest problem with these moves is that they are not punishable. An upB can be punished by certain characters, only in an ideal situation. Forward and down smashes are not punishable. In fact, not a single move in a decent Metaknight's arsenal is even the least bit punishable. With any other character, if you try a power-move, and miss, you will be punished. Metaknight always gains control again before any other character (excluding Wario in certain cases) has a chance to get anywhere near him. And if it's not bad enough that he is a killing machine, Metaknight's weight disadvantage is almost completely negated by his outstanding and unnatural DI capabilities. Let me bring your attention to Anti-Ban side's argument that Metaknight does not bypass the mechanics of the game including DI. METAKNIGHT ABSOLUTELY AND WITHOUT A DOUBT DOES BYPASS THE MECHANICS OF NORMAL DI. His momentum cancelling potential is astronomical, and it almost completely negates his weight disadvantage. Metaknight is NOT a balanced character. He is absolutely alien to every other character in the game, considering his all-strengths, no-weaknesses design.

Right now Brawl is all about Metaknight, and this is irrefutable. I don't know what the Anti-Ban side was thinking by bringing up the fact that 30% of all the cash winnings have been claimed by Metaknight. This is clearly an argument for the Pro-Ban side. (thanks guys, check's in the mail) This proves even better than the 22% ranking issue, that competitively Brawl has become almost 1/3 Metaknights. This is an overbearing presence on not just high-level players, but mid-level players too. This sends the message that (I quote this directly from the mouths of several REAL people in the mid-level tournements, whom I spoke with face-to-face about this issue) "Metaknight wins tournaments, why pick anyone else?" A player named RYU in the Fitchburg, Massachusetts area was the most annoying of these Metavangelists. He was a skilled player, with a possible shot at winning the tournament entirely; but, in the final match against a Fox main, he switched to Metaknight for fear of losing with his regular character. He went into the match fully confident that Metaknight would let him coast his way to victory, but instead, he lost miserably. The question is not whether or not MK is beatable, because he is. The question is, why are good players forced to believe that their only hope lies with Metaknight, instead of with their hard-earned main? As annoying as he was, I will admit that he had a very good chance of winning the tournament, had he stuck to his own characters. Metaknight is more than just a character problem. His very existence forces players to constantly fear that they either can't beat him, or that they need to use him. The pro-ban side has already done a fantastic job of outlining the reasons why Metaknight makes the game entirely about fighting with and against a metaknight, and I agree wholeheartedly. The funny thing is, Metaknight is ALOT of fun to play, and he can do some really cool things. The truth, though, is that in the end, he doesnt belong.

Now, if you've actually read this far, then I thank you deeply, and I would like to leave you with one more message, from the bottom of my heart, concerning the very soul of our community. The saddest part about Metaknight is that has turned our entire community into a laughing stock. Plank is an unforgivable menace who has laughed in our faces countless times, simply because he knows how bad the situation is and that we can't do anything to stop him or players like him. I have seen his posts saying that Brawl is stupid, and that it's hilarious how much trouble we're all going through while he just sits back and rakes in prize money. To clear up any possible confusion: Plank, I hate you and could not respect you if my life depended on it. You and all the other MK mains who laugh at this community need to get the hell out of it. And now we, as a community need to stand up and show them that we're not going to just sit back and take it anymore. We are not going to let tournament winners hide behind loopholes that constantly undermine our efforts to make a fair and just rulebook. We are not going to sit back and let tournaments be overrun by a threat we cannot contain. Right now we have the power to change our community for the better, and we will not sit back and let one more Metaknight infest our otherwise noble game.
 

Masmasher@

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,408
Location
Cleveland, Ohio! my homeplace but for now living i
Omniturtle - Haverhill, MA (Fitchburg State College) Falco/Fox Main

I know that I am technically a noob in the Brawl world, but I've spent enough time on smashboards, on youtube, in practice-mode, and in vs mode with friends who constantly grow as I do and cycle between beating me and losing to me. I may not represent the high level play, but I will take a stand for the mid-level players out there who are suffering. As a mid-level player, it is my job to learn from the best. It is my job to evolve my own strategies around not only the pros' to which I aspire, but also my own personal style and experience. Mid-level players all dream of being high-level players, and many do realize that goal, typically; however, the mid-level is struggling through the worst conflict that the Smash community has ever seen.

Mid-level players thrive on the experience they gain from watching and playing against higher-level players. This is the lifeblood of competitive play. Right now, mid-level players should be learning from the best, and eventually learning to incorporate their own ideas into their strategies, as they transcend from mere parrots, squacking back every strategy they see, to fierce strategists capable of thinking for themselves. Sadly, the biggest problem right now is that The Best are all busy either learning to play metaknight or learning how to beat metaknight. I will say right now that I WILL LEAVE ALL MATTERS CONCERNING HIGH-LEVEL PLAY TO HIGH-LEVEL PLAYERS. It is not my intention to claim that I have a rightful say in what happens between high-level players; but right now, the problem has infected my home turf. Mid-level players are suffering and it must stop now.

Metaknight is NOT held within the bounds of the normal "give-and-take" character model. Every other character is held to a balanced character model which always includes a give and take of various advantages. This is NOT counterpicking, it has nothing to do with intercharacter relations. This is the basic design of a character itself. Faster characters usually sacrifice power, and ofter weight-advantages. Stronger characters often lose the speed advantage, as well as often being larger targets, more easily sweet-spotted, with weaker shields. Possibly the most extreme examples would be Sheik and Donkey Kong. Sheik is among the fastest characters in the game, with high-end combo potential. Her downfall is that she is limited in her killing options and dies easily. Excluding various gimps which I am fully aware of, her strength-based killing game revolves entirely around her up-smash and her back-air. Her light weight makes her easy to KO. This is quite a balanced trade of strengths and weaknesses. Donkey Kong is a massive character, who has the power to KO at unbelievably low percents. His problem, however, is that he is slow, and cannot easily combo into his strongest hits. Everyone knows that DK is a momentum character. When he's winning, he's destroying, but the second the tide shifts, he's in serious trouble. DK has a very weak defense when considering both his somewhat useless shield, and his massive size which always manages to be just big enough to get hit. The trade-off to DK's overwhelming might is that he is almost exclusively reduced to a back-air approach. Anything else he has is too slow, or situational. This, again, is a very well-balanced trade of strengths and weaknesses. The problem with metaknight AS A CHARACTER is that he has no such balance. Supposedly he is a fast character (understatement) who should have trouble KOing, and should be worried about low% deaths because he only weighs 2 lb. The truth is that neither of these weaknesses appear in Metaknight. Metaknight's KO game is beyond any other character in the game, but just as I did with Shiek, I will steer clear of his tremendous gimping potential while I'm on the subject of power as a trade-off. Metaknight's forward smash, down smash, and upB all have incredible killing power, and while the smashes would honestly not boost him up to powerhouse status, they are, at the very least, within the middle-weight/speed category. His down-smash, especially, poses a problem, whereby a Metaknight has access to an instantaneous attack with the power to kill at low-end reasonable percents. The upB is the real kicker, because it does have I-frames, and comes out instantly, especially from a shield. Now beyond any other issue, the biggest problem with these moves is that they are not punishable. An upB can be punished by certain characters, only in an ideal situation. Forward and down smashes are not punishable. In fact, not a single move in a decent Metaknight's arsenal is even the least bit punishable. With any other character, if you try a power-move, and miss, you will be punished. Metaknight always gains control again before any other character (excluding Wario in certain cases) has a chance to get anywhere near him. And if it's not bad enough that he is a killing machine, Metaknight's weight disadvantage is almost completely negated by his outstanding and unnatural DI capabilities. Let me bring your attention to Anti-Ban side's argument that Metaknight does not bypass the mechanics of the game including DI. METAKNIGHT ABSOLUTELY AND WITHOUT A DOUBT DOES BYPASS THE MECHANICS OF NORMAL DI. His momentum cancelling potential is astronomical, and it almost completely negates his weight disadvantage. Metaknight is NOT a balanced character. He is absolutely alien to every other character in the game, considering his all-strengths, no-weaknesses design.

Right now Brawl is all about Metaknight, and this is irrefutable. I don't know what the Anti-Ban side was thinking by bringing up the fact that 30% of all the cash winnings have been claimed by Metaknight. This is clearly an argument for the Pro-Ban side. (thanks guys, check's in the mail) This proves even better than the 22% ranking issue, that competitively Brawl has become almost 1/3 Metaknights. This is an overbearing presence on not just high-level players, but mid-level players too. This sends the message that (I quote this directly from the mouths of several REAL people in the mid-level tournements, whom I spoke with face-to-face about this issue) "Metaknight wins tournaments, why pick anyone else?" A player named RYU in the Fitchburg, Massachusetts area was the most annoying of these Metavangelists. He was a skilled player, with a possible shot at winning the tournament entirely; but, in the final match against a Fox main, he switched to Metaknight for fear of losing with his regular character. He went into the match fully confident that Metaknight would let him coast his way to victory, but instead, he lost miserably. The question is not whether or not MK is beatable, because he is. The question is, why are good players forced to believe that their only hope lies with Metaknight, instead of with their hard-earned main? As annoying as he was, I will admit that he had a very good chance of winning the tournament, had he stuck to his own characters. Metaknight is more than just a character problem. His very existence forces players to constantly fear that they either can't beat him, or that they need to use him. The pro-ban side has already done a fantastic job of outlining the reasons why Metaknight makes the game entirely about fighting with and against a metaknight, and I agree wholeheartedly. The funny thing is, Metaknight is ALOT of fun to play, and he can do some really cool things. The truth, though, is that in the end, he doesnt belong.

Now, if you've actually read this far, then I thank you deeply, and I would like to leave you with one more message, from the bottom of my heart, concerning the very soul of our community. The saddest part about Metaknight is that has turned our entire community into a laughing stock. Plank is an unforgivable menace who has laughed in our faces countless times, simply because he knows how bad the situation is and that we can't do anything to stop him or players like him. I have seen his posts saying that Brawl is stupid, and that it's hilarious how much trouble we're all going through while he just sits back and rakes in prize money. To clear up any possible confusion: Plank, I hate you and could not respect you if my life depended on it. You and all the other MK mains who laugh at this community need to get the hell out of it. And now we, as a community need to stand up and show them that we're not going to just sit back and take it anymore. We are not going to let tournament winners hide behind loopholes that constantly undermine our efforts to make a fair and just rulebook. We are not going to sit back and let tournaments be overrun by a threat we cannot contain. Right now we have the power to change our community for the better, and we will not sit back and let one more Metaknight infest our otherwise noble game.


Dude you didnt have to type this.
You are basically giving each side infor that they already knew...that metakknight is really good.
HE IS HOWEVER not good enough to be banned. Even ignoring other standards.
Plus plank is awesome lmfao i personally loved his match against jigglymaster
Also you dont HAVE TO LISTEN to the SBR ruleset. You just want it to be the main word.
 
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Dude you didnt have to type this.
You are basically giving each side infor that they already knew...that metakknight is really good.
HE IS HOWEVER not good enough to be banned. Even ignoring other standards.
Plus plank is awesome lmfao i personally loved his match against jigglymaster
Also you dont HAVE TO LISTEN to the SBR ruleset. You just want it to be the main word.
...

All I have ever heard from anti-ban is "Metaknight is not good enough to be banworthy" and the faulty comparison to characters in other, normal fighting games. WHY IS HE NOT GOOD ENOUGH IF THE ENTIRE METAGAME IS "BEAT METAKNIGHT OR DIE"?
 

Reizilla

The Old Lapras and the Sea
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
13,676
Right now we have the power to change our community for the better, and we will not sit back and let one more Metaknight infest our otherwise noble game.
Haha! "Noble?" Brawl is as un-"noble" as it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m174jD2Qb_Y

I love watching back air/air dodging for five minutes. haha




OH, yeah, all you anti-banners need to decide if Brawl is normal or not. There's either absolutely nothing normal about Brawl at all, hence you can't ban MK for being alien since everything in the game is so unique/different in the first place, or you take the comparisons for other games and by that means, he isn't too overpowered relatively. Either way, the comparisons of ideas and theories are indisputable.
 

Masmasher@

Smash Lord
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...

All I have ever heard from anti-ban is "Metaknight is not good enough to be banworthy" and the faulty comparison to characters in other, normal fighting games. WHY IS HE NOT GOOD ENOUGH IF THE ENTIRE METAGAME IS "BEAT METAKNIGHT OR DIE"?
Its not faulty... what else do you have to go by. Forget the past and you wont have a future. When you say by brawls standards.... what standards. you guys have no established criteria (except adams). Plus you cant refute any of the anti bans side points soundly. The last 40 pages have been pitiful attempts to ban metaknight based on easily monitored attirbutes and exploits. When you say ban metaknight by "brawls standards" you are saying ban him cause we want you to... THAT IS SCRUB TALK. Scrubs hurt competition which is WHAT your community is based off of.
 

Reizilla

The Old Lapras and the Sea
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
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^^ are you calling me a lurker? or someone else? just wondering...
 
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Its not faulty... what else do you have to go by. Forget the past and you wont have a future. When you say by brawls standards.... what standards. you guys have no established criteria. Plus you can refute any of the anti bans side points soundly. The last 40 pages have been pitiful attempts to ban metaknight based on easily monitored attirbutes and exploits. When you say ban metaknight by "brawls standards" you are saying ban him cause we want you to... THAT IS SCRUB TALK. Scrubs hurt competition which is WHAT your community is based off of.
I believe the pro-bans set a perfectly valid criteria. Oh yeah, there's another common anti-ban argument: throw out the word scrub and hope that the person in question will shut up.
 

swordgard

Smash Hero
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There's only 2-3 MK mains in Canada now stfu.
More in ontario.



People really need to stop thinking ontario=canada. We dont approve of what they do, we do not condone it in any way. Montreal/quebec is agaisnt the ban save for 2-3 individuals.
 

Masmasher@

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I believe the pro-bans set a perfectly valid criteria. Oh yeah, there's another common anti-ban argument: throw out the word scrub and hope that the person in question will shut up.
If your talking about the first page. All it was was how meta knight is too good.
You criteria is nothing more than info. You need to remember you are banning a character. So you gotta come harder then that. What is the criteria.
Also dont direct me to the 1st page cause i will direct you to where amazing amphaoros refuted it.
 

cutter

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Getting drilled by AWPers
I was referring to Infinites on walls (like Dedede has, and I think Peach), and Sonic's stage stalling. Ever saw that? He goes under the main platform of a stage and repeatedly uses Homing Attack. You can't do SH*T. Hence Stalling has been banned and Infinites have been limited to 300%.
Umm... Sonic can't stall with his Homing Attack under the stage. Just spotdodge before Sonic Homing Attacks, and he'll fly downwards into oblivion.
 

Falconv1.0

Smash Master
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Messages
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Budget Player Cadet, either read the ****ing thread and see you're just trolling anti ban, or for the love of God lurk moar. Why the **** would the same good arguments still be being posted this far in when it's obvious he wont be banned and no one is going to change their mind at this point.

This is all pointless arguing and I'm going to just collect the lulz while you do it.
 
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The game is not beat metaknight or die, it's beat amazing players or die.
On the character level.

Budget Player Cadet, either read the ****ing thread and see you're just trolling anti ban, or for the love of God lurk moar. Why the **** would the same good arguments still be being posted this far in when it's obvious he wont be banned and no one is going to change their mind at this point.

This is all pointless arguing and I'm going to just collect the lulz while you do it.
Well obviously he isn't going to get banned.
 

Kinzer

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Umm... Sonic can't stall with his Homing Attack under the stage. Just spotdodge before Sonic Homing Attacks, and he'll fly downwards into oblivion.
Wrong, it doesn't matter what you do, unless you're Ness or a character with a projectile that works like that you can't stop Sonic from stalling out the game if there aren't any rules against it (which 99.9% of the time there are).
 

Shadowblazen

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Despite the fact that certain of his moves/techniques have already been banned, Meta Knight STILL has no disadvantaged match ups against any character or on any stage. This makes Meta Knight unique among all the characters in Brawl, and it makes him a safe option at all times. Banning more of his techniques may or may not resolve this issue in an efficient manner. This uniqueness is something that I believe should be quantified as broken, and a safe option should not exist in this game at any level of play. Therefore, I voted to ban Meta Knight.
 

Falconv1.0

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You see Budget Player Cadet, I could be an *** and say "LOL HERP DERP THAT'S ALL PRO BAN SIDE HAS" based off the last two posts.

But I don't, because I'm not ignorant as ****.
 

AvaricePanda

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...

All I have ever heard from anti-ban is "Metaknight is not good enough to be banworthy" and the faulty comparison to characters in other, normal fighting games. WHY IS HE NOT GOOD ENOUGH IF THE ENTIRE METAGAME IS "BEAT METAKNIGHT OR DIE"?
Yes, because that's all every character board and player focuses on. If you can't beat MK, you better just give up and stop playing. Character boards don't try to get better so they can catch up to the metagame; they try to get better so they can beat Meta Knight, obviously!

>_>

These types of baseless statements are too abundant in this thread. It's really annoying.

No and that's what I explained in one of my earlier posts. Because he's the best character AND has the lowest learning curve of the cast, it is extremelly unlikely that he'd remain far behind for long if he were temp banned for, say, a month. Anyways, from what we've seen in the past, Metaknight banned tournaments have had higher attendance on average and, of course, greater diversity of characters that actually place so we basically already know the results of a temp ban without actually having to go through with it which kind of confuses me to why this is still an issue. Actually, I do know why; it's because we're going by competitive standards and treating Brawl like every other fighting game. As said in a previous post, Brawl is closer to the likes of Mario Kart than Melee when it comes to "competitiveness" so I don't think it's right for us to give it the same standards that we would for games that were pretty much made from the ground up for fighting game enthusiasts like Street Fighter or Guilty Gear.
Why hello Mr., "I'm just going to avoid all of AvaricePanda's posts directed towards you."

Actually, here's the argument.

1) A temp ban is unnecessary unless something's banworthy anyway, and it's still unnecessary.
2) A temp ban wouldn't even work.
3) A temp ban wouldn't "let other characters catch up."
4) A temp ban would just condition more people to have a pro-ban mentality, leading to a permanent ban.

1) If something isn't banworthy, why would you ban it temporarily? Heck, if something is banworthy, why would you ban it temporarily? If it's the former, there's no point, as if it shouldn't be permanently banned it shouldn't be temporarily banned. And if it's the latter, why not just permanently ban it instead of temporarily?

2) For a temp ban to work, every T.O. would have to agree to S.B.R. ruling for that time. Not everyone agrees with it now, as seen by MK banned tournaments, and less people seem to agree with a temp ban, so why would every T.O. do it? You'd probably have a bit more tournaments actually banning MK, but many ignoring the ruleset. Quite a bit of Midwest and EC tournaments probably wouldn't ban him, as they don't find him a problem anyway.

3) How can you judge that MK's metagame is months ahead of other people's? What specifically about his metagame exists because of the time and amount of people who use him? What discoveries have been made baout his offensive and defensive games throughout the past couple of months that wouldn't help with any other character?

People would probably still be playing MK in friendlies or some tournaments. And while people would be playing other characters as well, many wouldn't worry about learning the MK match-up. Why? It wouldn't be necessary for the 3-6 months he's banned, as depending on where you live, you're not going to ever have to fight one.

4) A lot more people would be convinced by the tournament "diversity" that MK would warrant a permanent ban. When you remove the largest single character people use from tournaments, all those people have to use different characters, giving you much different placings than you would have. 3 months wouldn't solidify an "MK-gone" metagame. It would be difficult to see the best option with him gone, or less viable options with him gone, just because a lot of good or not so good players would have to change characters.

Mind explaining? Being a Diddy main myself, I don't see this "fact" that you enjoy saying.

Please elaborate.
 

Reizilla

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BRAWL IS A UNIQUE GAME COMPARED TO OTHER FIGHTING GAMES. IT'S ALIEN AND TOO DIFFERENT. IT SHOULD BE BANNED FROM COMPETITION BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE. THIS ARGUMENT SUCKS! and i'm not posting in all caps.
 

Falconv1.0

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I like how everyone makes the argument it's mk who wins, not the player, then when I ask if they are belittling all MK mains and saying they have no skill, they say no. Skill wins in the end when it comes to MK's even or advantaged match ups, banning him will not change who places well and who doesn't.

In other news

GENESIS

Also how the **** is Brawl so retardedly different, don't be an ***, other fighters have characters dominating far worse, but no, let's compare to Mario Kart, that would make sense but I'm not SLOW IN THE HEAD.
 

Divinokage

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I like how everyone makes the argument it's mk who wins, not the player, then when I ask if they are belittling all MK mains and saying they have no skill, they say no. Skill wins in the end when it comes to MK's even or advantaged match ups, banning him will not change who places well and who doesn't.

In other news

GENESIS

Also how the **** is Brawl so retardedly different, don't be an ***, other fighters have characters dominating far worse, but no, let's compare to Mario Kart, that would make sense but I'm not SLOW IN THE HEAD.
Those 3 MK mains have blocked the path for the others to have a chance to win. Those others are high level players as well.. and even the mid level players got ***** because of MK most likely again. Ally is too good because Snake vs MK is most likely even and he just pulled through. But that does not warrant a ban at all, many players lose to Sagat or Fox/Sheik or whatever. When you pick up a top tier it does not make you good with him.. you still have to practice hours on end to become a great player. And for those who do not pick up top tiers.. well they overcome them, and that has been seen many many times. *Raises hand because I did it too =P*
 

Gamegenie222

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Those 3 MK mains have blocked the path for the others to have a chance to win. Those others are high level players as well.. and even the mid level players got ***** because of MK most likely again. Ally is too good because Snake vs MK is most likely even and he just pulled through. But that does not warrant a ban at all, many players lose to Sagat or Fox/Sheik or whatever. When you pick up a top tier it does not make you good with him.. you still have to practice hours on end to become a great player. And for those who do not pick up top tiers.. well they overcome them, and that has been seen many many times. *Raises hand because I did it too =P*
good read my man.
 

Falconv1.0

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So what you're saying is that the better player wins?

****ing blasphemy, 55-45 match ups are impossible when it's MK. If you play a character not named MK and win when it's in your favor, gg, if you play MK, well MK won the match for you. /sacasm

FUNNY *** BACKWARDS LOGIC, HUH MOTHER****ERS.
 

Divinokage

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So what you're saying is that the better player wins?

****ing blasphemy, 55-45 match ups are impossible when it's MK. If you play a character not named MK and win when it's in your favor, gg, if you play MK, well MK won the match for you. /sacasm

FUN *** BACKWARDS LOGIC, HUH MOTHER****ERS.
Ok then stop being so **** scrub and learn the matchup inside and out.. ITS NEVER IMPOSSIBLE!!! You gotta have the right mindset, the right determination. If you go vs an MK in a match expecting to lose then you will lose!
 

Gamegenie222

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So what you're saying is that the better player wins?

****ing blasphemy, 55-45 match ups are impossible when it's MK. If you play a character not named MK and win when it's in your favor, gg, if you play MK, well MK won the match for you. /sacasm

FUN *** BACKWARDS LOGIC, HUH MOTHER****ERS.
you talkin to me.
 
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So what you're saying is that the better player wins?

****ing blasphemy, 55-45 match ups are impossible when it's MK. If you play a character not named MK and win when it's in your favor, gg, if you play MK, well MK won the match for you. /sacasm

FUNNY *** BACKWARDS LOGIC, HUH MOTHER****ERS.
Wait, who's trolling? :rolleyes:
The argument has never been "MK is unbeatable".
 

Falconv1.0

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Wait, who's trolling? :rolleyes:
The argument has never been "MK is unbeatable".
A bunch of the much smarter pro bans basically stated Ally is not a good example because he is too good, and lol if skill wins and not MK, then he's not too good.

God **** you guys would never be able to play stuff like MvC2 with this logic. MK is just as beatable as anyone else, he's not too good if he's not on another level of ****.
 
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