Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[CR4SH]

"how to beat mk" is way too big a part of competition brawl. **** em.

 

[Timbers]

love how there's 83 pages in this thread already despite it being painfully obvious SBR, and TOs in general, genuinely do not give a **** what the community thinks lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'd like to think that the reason why we take this debate so seriously, and debate it so fiercely is because we care a great deal about this game. Because we care about the tournament scene, and because we genuinely want to see it become as healthy as possible. So much so that something like this is going to cause great controversy and talk.

Melee trolls need to go away.

I agree, mostly with the latter point.

I want to point out that although it can be satisfying short-term to find a way to "beat MK," he has a ton of options and eventually someone just figures a way around that thing you found that helps win against him.

So you might thing your super cool new technique is kicking MK's ***, but then he just baits you into using it by using one of his six jumps to feint back and smacks you in the face with a forward air.

So long-term, it isn't helping the game nearly as much as anti-bans say it is to keep him around. No one is "growing" as a player or advancing their character's game because MK is legal.

 

[Vyse]

love how there's 83 pages in this thread already despite it being painfully obvious SBR, and TOs in general, genuinely do not give a **** what the community thinks lol.

Untrue, especially considering the fact that a large part of the Pro-ban's argument weighs on the Community votes and the mid range of skill in the first place.

Also, that this vote will help swing the vote in the SBR also proves the contrary.




Also, man, you guys gotta stop breaking the rules (Not you Timbers). This ain't a chat room : |

 

[lordvaati]

I'd like to think that the reason why we take this debate so seriously, and debate it so fiercely is because we care a great deal about this game. Because we care about the tournament scene, and because we genuinely want to see it become as healthy as possible. So much so that something like this is going to cause great controversy and talk.

Melee trolls need to go away.

understandable. I just hate seeing such bias and arguing in debates like these. I just joined the community- I'd rather not see it go to war.

also, you should go back tho your Vyse the legend avatar. it was kinda cool.

 

[urdailywater]

AHHHHH!!!! I'm sorry!! I didn't mean it... =[

Your avi's cool so it's 'k. Heh.

yeah, because MK's gonna get banned from wifi too if those 'wifi noobs' vote pro ban

I get what you're saying. yep

both sides of this problem have people that should not have the right to vote if you think about it. I can sit here and say 'oh, I like how 70% of the anti ban are MK mains/seconds' and you can say 'yeah, 70% of the people that voted proban are wifi noobs/people that don't even matter in the Brawl community'

the pool is pointless to me

It is -- and because people can just cheat the vote and make an alt account. Lots of things can effect the outcome -- but really it all comes down to the world leaders in the SBR.
Not saying the poll is pointless though, I mean, at least we know where some of the community stands at.

And I really should stop talking like I still play Brawl. The threads here just keep sucking me in 'cause the lulz that ensues.

edit: I guess I should also take into consideration this thread could change some of the SBR members minds too.. hmm..

 

[Bshaw718]

If ppl ban MK, they're gonna ban other chars after that....

And, if we ban MK, a lot a ppl will most likely quit.

^^^^^ i wish this guy was in charge...seriously

 

[Vyse]

understandable. I just hate seeing such bias and arguing in debates like these. I just joined the community- I'd rather not see it go to war.

also, you should go back tho your Vyse the legend avatar. it was kinda cool.

Vysethelegend is a different user to me.

Unless you mean the avatar I had previously from Valkyria Chronicles.

Yeah, I kinda liked it too

EDIT:

1337 Votes lol.

 

[SuSa]

^^^^^ i wish this guy was in charge...seriously

Except the fact that the landslide argument is totally rubbish and idiotic. Because it things simply do not work like that.

EDIT:
Too good.
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9786/1337cgl.jpg

 

[stingers]

hey we should vote on who gets into the backroom

what a good idea

 

[xDD-Master]

I don't care if I get flamed for this. Whatever. I honestly believe Snake, that's right...SNAKE! is the best character in the game. I'm not saying right now, but I see him and MK as just about as good right now. What's Metaknight going to improve? Spacing more? What's Snake going to improve? Anything he wants. He's got an entire moveset that even Ally hasn't set in to full potential. This sounds stupid, but I'll redirect people to this post in a year when Snake is about to be banned.

Unless it's Olimar who is holding him back... I AGREE WITH YOU ! Snake will overtake MK. He just has all the tools to do so and the time Snake can handle all explosions etc. he will be unstopable, or maybe just untouchable xD we will see

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I just totally got owned by KevinM and had my post edited. Which I then re-edited because I don't talk like that.

PS:
Can't people just click on the "last edited" to compare the OP to your edit to this new edit?

Oh wait.. I shouldn't have said that.
****.




I know it's hard to resist the temptation, but red names shouldn't troll or otherwise encourage offtopic discussion.


SuSa edit #3:
Oh come on... that wasn't even fully intentional..... I just didn't see the point of the above post...


To get a response like yours, no doubt. You got played, son.

People already know it's you but I don't do that again seeing as you removed it. But what response? I didn't even see the response. D= Wow, I did get played... just understood. Infraction deserved, my bad.

Yeah, I don't see a need to announce my presence. lol
It's all good, live and learn.

:flame:
Susa, I'm sorry, but seeing as how most of my brain cells are still splattered on the ground and being licked at by my faithful Shihtzu/Snouzer Puppy, I can't quite understand what you mean by your post.

If you are indeed commenting on my post and the infraction I recieved, I'm honestly sorry for spamming in the first place. A Spammer is honestly not who I am. The post was the imagry that came to my mind when I saw Crystal's comment on his/her situation on this matter. There are people that are skilled enough to not have to worry about Metaknight themselves, but that are still aware of the situation. I'm cocky enough to think that I might be one of those people too, but that is because I haven't been able to fight a really good Metaknight. I'm sure I'd crap myself if I got 3 stocked in 2 minutes by M2K. But there are people who are genuinly skilled enough for this to not be much of an issue for them. They have the experience and techniques to fight against Metaknight should he continue to be playable, and they can still fight against the other 34 characters with no problem either if he does get banished. But they are indeed aware of what is going on. That is the basis of what I ment by my earlier 2 liner. I didn't mean to get off-topic with it, and I'm definitely not trying to create spam on such an important thread. If you guys want me banned, I fully deserve it, and nothing other than your own business is stoping you from doing so. Forgive me, no matter what action you wish to take.

By the way, Crystal, exactly how does one handle a Metaknight, in your opinion? If the underground fighters have found a way to battle him, and make it so that he isn't nearly as much of an issue, then this is information that should be made public as possible.

And as for the vote itself, why do people say things like "I'm firin' my lazer"? I know what I said wasn't really necesary, but where did Lazers factor into the thread? Do people like that actually put weight on the scales of such an important topic? God I'm scared if he gets banned or unbanned for the wrong reasons. Do moderators have any force over which votes get counted or not (probably no, since they could swey the vote themselves)? And what do the top Metaknights think about this situation so far? Do they support the ban? Do they have any idea how to stop their own Main? Who will they uses, assuming Metaknight has to be banned? (I hope I haven't missed too much of the poles...)
:flame:

 

[Vyse]

You guys sure are gluttons for punishment.

I've been giving infractions all day.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Jesus christ this took me 2.25 hours to respond to. I hope people actually read this...

i did, and it took me 35 min or so and 2.5 pages worth of thread creation to read it. but it was a good read.

EDIT, in responce to the wifi noob thing...
I dont even think Mk is the best character on wifi. theres much gayer stuff that characters can do on wifi

 

[stingers]

im not sure why my last post was infracted but whatever

also nobody told me whether or not i could switch my vote to ban. cuz i want to. :x

 

[SuSa]

You cannot switch your vote, it's why you should be careful when voting.

 

[stingers]

well darn. the pro ban community lost a very important member today

 

[CT Chia]

Yea for real everyone, read the arguments before you vote...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

yea LMAO


this is why our community is so laughable competitively, and it's mainly because a lot of people just suck @ our game and don't grind it out as hardcore as they do in other fighters


top players like daigo played 5 hours a day 5 days a week before evo to prepare, I wouldn't mind doing some **** like that but to the rest of the players that's probably unheard of m- because they suck

Me and my friends at el paso have been practicing 8 hours a day 3 days a week for the last 2 weeks for hobo and this week I played 4 hours on sunday 8 hours yesterday 4 hours today 8 hours tomorrow and probably around 15 hours on thursday since we will start at noon and continue until we leave for houston.

And we all still think MK should be banned. We aren't top level players but we do care to improve at this game and error13 has actually managed to get into the texas power rankings.

^^^^^ i wish this guy was in charge...seriously

are you kidding me?

Even the anti-ban has said that the slipery slope arguement is just plain stupid. No other characters resemble what MK is and if anything is banned afterwards it will be things like infinites or glitches that make the game unwinnable but not whole characters.

edit: the OP should at least say that you can't change your vote to prevent that from happening again.

 

[smash64]

i agree with all the other ppl that dont want MK ban becuase MK can still be beaten by even low tier characters and yeah if we ban MK then we will lose alot of brawlers M2K might even quit

 

[Chaco]

Omni's anti ban argument is good.

 

[Remzi]

I read your post ESAM. Good stuff.

What the SBR really needs is equal character representation.

For MK we have like 20 people.

For Marth we have Bardull. Thats fair.

 

[Fraser]

Regardlss of the outcome of this vote I think lots of tourneys are gonna implement bans of their own. The tourney I just attended was seriously considering a ban because of this growing problem. They called it off because they were unsure of where the community stood on this. I beleive that the majority of players will be happy with a ban even if they vote against one. While tourney attendace may drop initially after the ban I think the community will become healthier character spread wise and the tourney scene will be better overall. When i first started following the teirs list I thought that it would change constantly and have a large amount of negative feedback(despite the name this is a beneficial thing) Negative feedback involves a build up of something harmful and then a correction of the system to bring it back into balance. It is most commonly used with regards to the human body. Negative feedback in SSB would involve one character rising to dominace then falling as more characters and strats are developed to counter that character. However with MK very few counter strats and chars have been developed meaning he is slowly moving back into a class of his own. Positive feedback has started taking over the brawl community and magnifiying the problem. As MK rose more people began playing and winning with him therefore there were also more players playing against and losing to him. Instead of improving their own chars metagame against MK, players simply began to play him when they realized they could win with him. Its sad really that it has come to this. when one character makes up 20% of the total chars played and takes home 30% of the money.

The one topic the anti ban side didn't address is what is being done to fix the problem. Many admit that there is a problem but they don't beleive that it is a ban worthy problem. If its isn't a ban worthy problem its going to become one soon as virtually nothing has been done to improve the anti MK metagame and loads has been done to improve MK's metagame.

Anti ban side if MK is not ban worthy do you still admit he's overpowered? if so what is being done other than this ban to fix his obvious dominace of metagame and tourney play? If not this ban then what else can be feasibly be done to bring Brawls metagame back to some semblance of balance?

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

You cannot switch your vote, it's why you should be careful when voting.

:flame:
Would it be impossible on a Forum like this to force some type of Test or something that would make peole atleast LOOK at the Origonal Post atleast? Most anyone that really looks at the information presented will probably have a much better standing on the issue, and will have a most likely more accurate vote.

I do agree with him that people should be able to change their vote, only because, for example the last thread, people vote that actually use some sense of knowledge and forethought, but then someone incredible smart blows everyone's mind with a sensational post, and makes everyone want to change their mind. Sucks at that point. Glad I wanted during that vote.

People that act Blatantly stupid with no proof of brain activity at all, from past actions or comments, probably don't deserve the right to vote at all. Kinda like how a bunch of people I know voted for Obama just because he was Black. My God. Please let the rest of those that vote not be that stupid.
:flame:

 

[Big O]

I don't really think MK should be banned. Just going by all of his match-ups he is mostly 60:40. The real problem at the end of the day is that people claim MK almost always has the advantage and consequently has no counters. I think most people would say that MK being nerfed is at the top of the list of changes in a balance patch from Nintendo (along with no tripping and probably random buffs to their main). While there is no chance of any patch from Nintendo there is still a way we can nerf MK. It doesn't even require hacking.

Give MK a small 20-40% handicap and you are done. MK is instantly brought down a notch and the match-up gets better for everyone else. He would even have counters. MK mains who use him for fun don't have to drop him and people don't have to deal with a character without counters anymore. MK would still be top tier but much less of a problem

I think a handicap is the best solution. It tackles all of the main problems in a simple manner. I know this will be heavily debated and can see some questions like "where do we draw the line" but ultimately almost every game rule is an arbitrary decision. I hope this actually gets some legit discussion and not some lol handicap responses. I understand it is a fairly unorthodox solution and I can't think of another community that uses handicap for balance instead of bans. I hope the smash community can actually try it out and break new ground with these kinds of compromises as opposed to having flame wars on ban or no ban (no offense to those who actually engaged in intelligent debate on the subject).

This thread is moving ridiculously fast so I might never see every post but if you disagree with the handicap idea I would like to know why. Whatever happens I hope the community comes to some kind of agreement and just moves on.

 

[BIGM1994]

Some people just vote ban mk for no reason, they simpley say "i dont really care anyways so i voted ban him"


YOU FOOLS.

 

[SuSa]

That 20-40% handicap would do nothing. Handicapping characters is probably one of the stupidest things I've heard of.

Did you know that 20-40% allows MK to avoid Falco's CG, actually letting him keep less damage?

Hey look, he just got buffed.

 

[HugS™]

only the crybaby *** robs complain about mk

chibo, hugs, etc.

Hugs, chibo, overswarm, Holy...

Those all sound like the best ROBs, not the most "crybaby" ROBs. LoL, who the hell do you think you are, kid?

 

[SuSa]

HugS, just ignore him... that seemed like name-search bait for you and chibo (IIRC chibo name searches)

To remain on topic so I don't get infracted:

@BIGM
If they don't care, they shouldn't vote... agreed.

 

[stingers]

i only posted the 2 ppl that cried the most in the "it's hopeless" thread. CALM DOWN dude

 

[xDD-Master]

But no, we have to play Brawl where we debate flying characters and whiny stupid arrogant people vote without a viable reason, and pro banners whine and complain and ***** and we go through this cycle of crap after every big tournament.

This is why I want him banned. It's just soooo annoying -_-

Just ban this purple ball and good is.

 

[KevinM]

You guys sure are gluttons for punishment.

I've been giving infractions all day.

Me too homie, glad to see you got this thread for a little so I can walka way.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Some people just vote ban mk for no reason, they simpley say "i dont really care anyways so i voted ban him"


YOU FOOLS.

theres people like that on both sides an Ike main who has only played wifi and never been to a tournament voted on the first poll for not banning him and his reason was i still play wifi so it affects me...

Idk how MK will be banned on wifi friendlies but the point is there are people who don't deserve to vote on either side.

 

[Frank West]

Don't ban MK because he's not unbeatable=dumbest phrase ever

The pro-ban side does not try to argue him being impossible to defeat. The argument is; is it really fair to allow a character that has that large an advantage(absurd disjointedness/range, ungimpable etc.) on the rest of the cast when tournaments are played for money?

other points:

*ally pwns because he's just that good with snake and the MK:Snake MU isn't too bad.

*If snake were the biggest threat in the meta game instead of MK, no character would be made unviable for tourneys.

*Making more characters viable matters because overcentralization on one/two characters is something that will quickly kill the community.

*Threads like these


just my honest opinion here. I actually enjoy the challenge of playing against MK, but If I were asked if MK is ban-worthy and if banning him would be a good move for the community then the answer to both questions is yes.

 

[SuSa]

Ok... Artu....

He isn't banned in friendlies...period... I don't think you understand what it means to ban a character from competitive play. That means he isn't allowed to be used in tournament and even then that comes down to the TO who may or may not decide to follow the SBR decision (most of them do, let's face it.)

However peoples reasons to play him since he is banned is pointless. Why play as or improve a banned character if you are unable to use him at most tournaments? So most likely few people would continue to play him in friendlies if the TO's in the area actually decide to ban him.

$MM's it would depend on the two placing the bets as to whether or not they can use Meta Knight.

 

[Big O]

That 20-40% handicap would do nothing. Handicapping characters is probably one of the stupidest things I've heard of.

Did you know that 20-40% allows MK to avoid Falco's CG, actually letting him keep less damage?

Hey look, he just got buffed.

I think Falco has a pretty hard time grabbing MK. Even if that match-up got worse it wouldn't matter since everyone else has a better match-up.

Characters like Snake would counter MK with a handicap. How is that nothing and how is it stupid? Do you think he shouldn't be nerfed?

 

[CT Chia]

I name search every now and then
I havent for a bit

But yea I made the it's hopeless thread - because well, it is lol

And with the top ROBs backing it... yeaaa.....


Anyway,
I made Part 2 of my vid today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8szwe9nq5XI
it might be a tad hard to read until the high quality version is done processing

 

[The_Bear735]

I really hate people in this community. I'd like to find some good reasoning for the slippery slope logic, as most Pro ban MK logic and reasoning isn't applicable to any other character.



I'm looking at you, random ****ing scrubs who won't shut the **** up about "omg snake wil b nxt".

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Ok... Artu....

He isn't banned in friendlies...period... I don't think you understand what it means to ban a character from competitive play. That means he isn't allowed to be used in tournament and even then that comes down to the TO who may or may not decide to follow the SBR decision (most of them do, let's face it.)

However peoples reasons to play him since he is banned is pointless. Why play as or improve a banned character if you are unable to use him at most tournaments? So most likely few people would continue to play him in friendlies if the TO's in the area actually decide to ban him.

$MM's it would depend on the two placing the bets as to whether or not they can use Meta Knight.

I understand perfectly what it means to ban him. I was just point out that both sides have people who do not deserve to vote. Either accept that or have your voice ignored. You can't just call out the people like that on one side

 

[CT Chia]

I believe Snake will drop with MK being banned. Snake really just rides his success as being the character closest to taking down MK. All of the characters that do well on Snake though generally lose quite soundly to MK, so it doesn't matter. Since tourneys are like 90% MK, Snake likes it.