Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[AvariceX]

Something I'd like to add as sort of a testament to how MK is causing the metagame to stagnate:

In our region there are quite literally no noobs left. This seems trivial at face value, but noobs are very important to the community. When Brawl was young our tournaments averaged 60-80 players, giving us a healthy pot size, varied levels of competition, lots of people to meet and lots of opportunity to improve. Our tournaments now always consist of the same 20-30 people, all of whom are very skilled players. While this means that all the matches we get to enjoy will always be entertaining and close, it also means that we are always required to play at our very best and can never try to relax in a match and that we see the same players play the same players over and over again, for a very limited prize pot due to consistent lack of attendance.

In the past I loved watching finals matches for the hype and possible upsets (Ally vs KingAce matches were always so good), and yet in the past 3 or 4 tournaments I have decided to go do something else while finals is happening, and I'm certainly not the only one as I've actually been playing friendlies with some of the best friends of the people playing in finals while finals were happening - even their closest friends aren't interested in seeing the same matches over and over - hell, at the last tournament I skipped watching finals to play a rock paper scissors tournament and Brawl+ friendlies.

And now for the relevance: I blame our drastic decrease in attendance largely on the saturation of the metagame with MK and noobs getting frustrated with it. Noobs are important; the attendance numbers they bring helps to hype the tournament, they add money to the pot to make traveling to tournaments more worth the time/money, and perhaps most importantly they eventually improve to become great players. I often wonder how many potentially great players we prematurely lost due to them getting 2-3-stocked by MK's every game at their first tournaments.

 

[shogun.]

emblem lord's and theonejanitor's quotes are ridiculous

gg barwl community

 

[Clouderz]

obvious troll is obvious

Ur just saying im trolling cuz my point is valid

theirs nothing u cant do if u focus hard enough on it
the typical quote of "try harder" is a legit reason BECAUSE
peoples makes have great disadvantages over mk and they feel the need that that character should be banned becasue its not fair

MK isnt 100% unbeatable
M2k was winning the majority of the tournaments WITH mk
ally came strolling along and beat him after a couple matches WITH A DIFFERENT character


Its not impossible, try harder
i dotn even know why im evenb bothering with this because your all just stubborn that ur main is terribad vs mk

 

[Fraser]

Something I'd like to add as sort of a testament to how MK is causing the metagame to stagnate:

In our region there are quite literally no noobs left. This seems trivial at face value, but noobs are very important to the community. When Brawl was young our tournaments averaged 60-80 players, giving us a healthy pot size, varied levels of competition, lots of people to meet and lots of opportunity to improve. Our tournaments now always consist of the same 20-30 people, all of whom are very skilled players. While this means that all the matches we get to enjoy will always be entertaining and close, it also means that we are always required to play at our very best and can never try to relax in a match and that we see the same players play the same players over and over again, for a very limited prize pot due to consistent lack of attendance.

In the past I loved watching finals matches for the hype and possible upsets (Ally vs KingAce matches were always so good), and yet in the past 3 or 4 tournaments I have decided to go do something else while finals is happening, and I'm certainly not the only one as I've actually been playing friendlies with some of the best friends of the people playing in finals while finals were happening - even their closest friends aren't interested in seeing the same matches over and over - hell, at the last tournament I skipped watching finals to play a rock paper scissors tournament and Brawl+ friendlies.

And now for the relevance: I blame our drastic decrease in attendance largely on the saturation of the metagame with MK and noobs getting frustrated with it. Noobs are important; the attendance numbers they bring helps to hype the tournament, they add money to the pot to make traveling to tournaments more worth the time/money, and perhaps most importantly they eventually improve to become great players. I often wonder how many potentially great players we prematurely lost due to them getting 2-3-stocked by MK's every game at their first tournaments.

This has happend in our communit too. Although instead of quitting half of them decided to start maining and cping MK. Which caused more people to quit and start maining MK. Anyone else seeing a pattern here?

 

[The_Game]

sup clouderz

 

['V']

why the hell did sakurai say he would not patch this game? better yet, why did he purposefully make this game non competative?

Think about it..

A game where random classic Nintendo characters fight each other on these random stages that have been showing up throughout their histories. Lets throw these random items in for which they have unique aspects to the characters and add in some random accidents like tripping. Now lets get rid of hitstun and shieldstun and any of those advance techniques they found out about back in Melee. Anyone's able to win now. Now lets throw in some good music and a crazy story mode and call it a day. It's the ultimate PARTY GAME.

Some people want their masterpieces to be viewed the way they want to be viewed. It's like being an artist of sorts. I think it's how he wanted it to be in the first place.

 

[Fraser]

Ur just saying im trolling cuz my point is valid

theirs nothing u cant do if u focus hard enough on it
the typical quote of "try harder" is a legit reason BECAUSE
peoples makes have great disadvantages over mk and they feel the need that that character should be banned becasue its not fair

MK isnt 100% unbeatable
M2k was winning the majority of the tournaments WITH mk
ally came strolling along and beat him after a couple matches WITH A DIFFERENT character


Its not impossible, try harder
i dotn even know why im evenb bothering with this because your all just stubborn that ur main is terribad vs mk

Citing several players no matter how good they are is not representative of the brawl community as a whole -.- Dur

 

[Staco]

M2K will quit Brawl if MK gets banned.

Pls rename the poll to: Get M2K banned.
or maybe just call it: Get (one of) your best player(s) banned. lmao

 

[Clouderz]

Citing several players no matter how good they are is not representative of the brawl community as a whole -.- Dur

it was just an example

 

[Melomaniacal]

Honestly, just the fact that this can still be debated is outrageous to me.

 

[theONEjanitor]

that's what people have been trying to do for the past year.

no, actually this community spent the past year shouting "ban MK!!!"

when they could have been using that time to learn how to play brawl

 

[Big O]

Because breaking how a defensive game is supposed to be played is obviously what we want.

MK is forced to approach once anyways if he wants to win, otherwise say hello to stalemate. If he approaches you once and already did damage without getting punished, guess what. He can do it 3-4 more times then plank. It's not changing anything and is only putting a stupid limit on a character.

I'm more for a ban then a stupid handicap that would turn many matches into "let's plank for the next 8 minutes just because we can". I'm also Anti-Ban, so that's saying something there.

"Oh noes, getting a grab is too harddd"
Well to ****ing bad? It's not like it's impossible. How about wait for your openings better? Set it up better? You eventually do get a grab.. recreate that situation so you can get a grab.

The whole "handicap" just screams "omfg make it so much easier on us because we suck at actually playing the game!"

If applying a handicap makes people plank/stall to beat MK what is stopping them from doing so when they get a % lead normally? I doubt stalling is that effective against MK for most tourney viable characters anyway.

How does a handicap scream "idk how to beat MK" more than banning him?

It isn't impossible to get the grab or set it up but when you do pull off the grab I doubt it will be at 0% every stock so a handicap will always put Falco and everyone else in a more advantageous situation.

I also think it would be better to try it out first before concluding without a doubt that the metagame will be reduced to time outs.

 

[Clouderz]

no, actually this community spent the past year shouting "ban MK!!!"

when they could have been using that time to learn how to play brawl

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
OMG
i love you

see, melee players are also more intelligent and insightful

 

[The_Bear735]

Ur just saying im trolling cuz my point is valid

actually I just assumed you were trolling from how stupid your posts are. you're completely ignoring every other point that the Pro Ban side brings up and just baselessly assuming that the only possible reason that anyone could want MK is banned is because they suck, which is wrong. I'm questioning if you even read the OP.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm. Although I'm pro ban, I realize banning MK is impossible. It'll never happen, plain and simple.

 

[The_Game]

sup clouderz

 

[Yoshara]

This has happend in our communit too. Although instead of quitting half of them decided to start maining and cping MK. Which caused more people to quit and start maining MK. Anyone else seeing a pattern here?

That only happened with two people, and they have decided not to anymore because they do better with their mains.

 

[Ripple]

Ur just saying im trolling cuz my point is valid

theirs nothing u cant do if u focus hard enough on it
the typical quote of "try harder" is a legit reason BECAUSE
peoples makes have great disadvantages over mk and they feel the need that that character should be banned becasue its not fair

MK isnt 100% unbeatable
M2k was winning the majority of the tournaments WITH mk
ally came strolling along and beat him after a couple matches WITH A DIFFERENT character


Its not impossible, try harder
i dotn even know why im evenb bothering with this because your all just stubborn that ur main is terribad vs mk

your point is not valid. "getting better" still does not beat a planking or air camping MK which is a major concer of people's. no matter how much you improve on combos or pick better moves at situations, its all null and void against a MK since he always has a safe option and can camp without breaking a rule.

 

[Clouderz]

actually I just assumed you were trolling from how stupid your posts are. you're completely ignoring every other point that the Pro Ban side brings up and just baselessly assuming that the only possible reason that anyone could want MK is banned is because they suck, which is wrong. I'm questioning if you even read the OP.

tl;dr theory is vailid
gg brawl noob

 

[AvariceX]

M2K has said multiple times that he will just go back to D3 if MK gets banned; stop posting misinformed garbage.

 

[Melomaniacal]

People really need to learn the difference between "I want MK to be banned," and "MK should be banned."

 

[Arty]

The top 5 teams at Genesis all had MK :0 ... just throwing out random ****

 

[PikaPika!]

Clouderz
Join Date: Mar 2008
The end

 

[Ripple]

clouderz
age 14-15
more end

 

[Deleted member]

People really need to learn the difference between "I want MK to be banned," and "MK should be banned."

This is a vote. When I voted for Nader, I was thinking "I want Nader to be President" rather than "Nader should be President".

 

[Fraser]

That only happened with two people, and they have decided not to anymore because they do better with their mains.

Yosh I like you in real life don't go making me detest you. It has happend with way more than 2 people and even if those ones reformed(which not all of them did it's contiuing to happen. Brandon and Vic proved that at ADAT.

PS sorry to cite individual examples which won't make sense to anyone else but I play with this guy

 

[Clouderz]

your point is not valid. "getting better" still does not beat a planking or air camping MK which is a major concer of people's. no matter how much you improve on combos or pick better moves at situations, its all null and void against a MK since he always has a safe option and can camp without breaking a rule.

thats cool
but
your stupid, its not like MK can just stay in the air for the whole match without touching the ground once

sure, he has like 5 jumps, but he's always gonna have to come down some time

another thing

Mindgames.

Make mk think your going to do soemthing, but then punish him for think you were gonig to do that thing!

Duh

 

[itsthebigfoot]

that's what people have been trying to do for the past year.

and mk is slowly having worse tournament results because of it

remember october where it was all mk?

 

[The_Game]

I'll sell my vote to the highest bidder

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Ur just saying im trolling cuz my point is valid

theirs nothing u cant do if u focus hard enough on it
the typical quote of "try harder" is a legit reason BECAUSE
peoples makes have great disadvantages over mk and they feel the need that that character should be banned becasue its not fair

MK isnt 100% unbeatable
M2k was winning the majority of the tournaments WITH mk
ally came strolling along and beat him after a couple matches WITH A DIFFERENT character


Its not impossible, try harder
i dotn even know why im evenb bothering with this because your all just stubborn that ur main is terribad vs mk

:flame:
Actually, I believe he said you were trolling because maybe you were trolling?

Ever think that there are other Metaknights that are working just to improve their game as hard as we are to beat them? It's not impossible for someone to outskill someone, but honestly, I want to see the public get good enough to outskill Metaknight, no matter how focused they are. And there are people who have characters that can go even with Metaknight who still notice that Metaknight is becoming so popular with people, the rest of the new players aren't willing to try, and even old players find it easier to simply convert to Metaknightism. It spreads like the Black Plague, and ends up over taking the entire community. That is one of several reasons that Metaknight has many people who want him banned. Few people really think that Metaknight is unbeatable. Most of them probably don't even play the game. Those that play compeditively can probably put up a fight against him, but still, Metaknight requires a heck of a lot of skill to defeat. And not everyone is capable of generating that much skill.

By the way, you should try to atleast spell check your typing. You lose 1/5th of your Troll Factor when you words atleast look like they have brain matter behind them.
:flame:

 

[Staco]

M2K has said multiple times that he will just go back to D3 if MK gets banned; stop posting misinformed garbage.

I asked him before ~ 15 minutes.
M2K will quit brawl, if MK gets banned.

 

[The_Bear735]

tl;dr theory is vailid
gg brawl noob

w/e, you can think it all you want but people who care about you and your troll posts will just refute you.

and gg son

 

[Fraser]

thats cool
but
your stupid, its not like MK can just stay in the air for the whole match without touching the ground once

sure, he has like 5 jumps, but he's always gonna have to come down some time

another thing

Mindgames.

Make mk think your going to do soemthing, but then punish him for think you were gonig to do that thing!

Duh

Perhaps you didn't watch some of the videos that the proside posted. While I'm not saying that individual examples are a good proof they are a testament o what is possible with MK that is not with any other character stall wise. he can jump and dair all day making it very hard for anyone to do anything while hes in the air other than get horrible punished by jumping into his dairs and trying to attack him.

 

[Melomaniacal]

This is a vote. When I voted for Nader, I was thinking "I want Nader to be President" rather than "Nader should be President".

Well, that's a selfish way of voting.

I would like MK to be banned. He's annoying to fight. With him gone, things will be slightly easier. Does that mean he should be banned? Absolutely not.
And many people need to understand that concept.

 

[DotHack]

I'll sell my vote to the highest bidder

MK says he'll give you cookies and the souls of his fallen enemies if you vote no. =3

 

[Ripple]

thats cool
but
your stupid, its not like MK can just stay in the air for the whole match without touching the ground once

sure, he has like 5 jumps, but he's always gonna have to come down some time

another thing

Mindgames.

Make mk think your going to do soemthing, but then punish him for think you were gonig to do that thing!

Duh

when he does come down he can't be punished. thats the whole stalling/planking argument. where the hell have you been?

and don't ****ing call me stupid with those ******* posts of yours

 

[blakinola]

I voted to ban MK.

Ripple: As to why the game can't be "patched", read:
http://hackmii.com/2009/02/why-the-wii-will-never-get-any-better/

 

[theONEjanitor]

The top 5 teams at Genesis all had MK :0 ... just throwing out random ****

i like how pro ban ppl accusing anti ban ppl of ignoring the other sides argument when they are doing the same.

have you been to a fighting game tournament before?

here's how melee tournaments go

1. Marth (well i guess jiggs now lol)
2. Marth/Fox
3. Fox
4. Fox
5. Fox
6. Falco/Fox
7. Fox
8. Peach
9. Fox
10. Marth/Fox


Here's how sf3 tournament go
1. chun li
2. chun li
3. chun li
4. ken
5. chun li


here's how marvel tournaments go
1. storm sentinel captain
2.storm sentinel captain
3. magneto storm psylocke
4, storm sentinel captain
6. magneto storm psylocke

welcome to fighting games there's always a best character

 

[LuigiKing]

Haha wow clouderz gets the moron award for the day.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I mean.. not to really defend M2K or anything, but if I had played Meta Knight for a long and put all of my effort into him just to have him banned even though he can still lose, I'd be pretty pissed off.

Just saying..

In the spectrum of competitive play, that's completely irrelevant. Winning>> Money (when available) >>>>>>> Attachment to a particular character. Basically, as a real competitive player, his first concern would be finding a way how to win or at least place well in tournaments, not bemourning the loss of his favorite character. Granted, I am taking the human element out of this arguement but considering he is considered one of the best players in the world, it is expected that his top priority should be staying on top.

If anything, it's arguements like this that make me appreciate people like Ninjalink who use the whole cast and can back up the statement that they can kick the crap out of you with anyone. People say this all the time about M2K but can he really? To be completely honest, I would literally pay to see him win tournaments with someone other than Metaknight. God, if he could do it with someone like Mario or Ike, I'd simply send him a blank check in the mail.