Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Uffe]

what about staying one step ahead of your opponent bb

I don't think you can do that. Let's say it's Ganondorf vs Meta Knight. We know how horrible that'll end. Now if Meta Knight has no match up experience against Ganondorf but Ganondorf has tons of match up experience against Meta Knight, that Ganondorf may very well win. Let's say he won, though. Once Meta Knight figures out how to deal with Ganondorf, then Ganondorf is screwed once again because Meta Knight learned the match up and then we're back to square one.

 

[kirbywizard]

what about staying one step ahead of your opponent bb

Which is crap seeing that Metaknight can just use another quick move to mess you up. When fighting Metaknight it is best to play the safest option for your character which I think for most is to stay away.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I don't think you can do that. Let's say it's Ganondorf vs Meta Knight. We know how horrible that'll end. Now if Meta Knight has no match up experience against Ganondorf but Ganondorf has tons of match up experience against Meta Knight, that Ganondorf may very well win. Let's say he won, though. Once Meta Knight figures out how to deal with Ganondorf, then Ganondorf is screwed once again because Meta Knight learned the match up and then we're back to square one.

mm i think it might go alittle deeper than that, but to be honest bb in a tournie setting your not rly gonna see ganny so to say that a mk vs ganon match is gonna always take place isnt likely rly-- a better example might be a char thats more frequently seen-- i get the point though

do you think it boils down to style and technical skill bb?

Which is crap seeing that Metaknight can just use another quick move to mess you up. When fighting Metaknight it is best to play the safest option for your character which I think for most is to stay away.

aka defense correct, seeing as u play olimar--so i can respect that

but could you not switch between defense and aggression during a match?

 

[MarKO X]

MetaKnight is already one step ahead of your opponent.

 

[kirbywizard]

aka defense correct, seeing as u play olimar--so i can respect that

but could you not switch between defense and aggression during a match?

Yes you can easily do that with anyone. But when fighting Metaknight you would most likely be playing defense and do some damage a few times when you think you can do a move that will not end up costing you to much. I mean for the majority of teh match you will be avoiding Metaknight and do some damage now and then. Your main point is to survive. playing aressive can really screw you over and you can easily make a mistake and get punished biog time.


Defense you stay away and wait for a mistake by your opponent. When fighting Metaknight you take it to the extrema but you will only win if the Metaknight makes a mistake. But for the majority of Metaknights attack if he makes a mistake he can quickly make up for it with almost no punishment ( unless he is fighting the red monkey)


ANd then in a few minutes this will be destroyed by a person that has been debating here since dawn.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

And then at that point we're comparing a game that has had a strong competitive scene for over a decade to a game that has just become widely known in the past three years. Not really a fair comparison.

That said, no gaming is near money-making status in the US, so it's kinda a moot point.

EDIT: ****N son, if HRNUT can vote 'No' after that match with Spam at CoT4...

that match was really ******** lol, but i dont think he should be banned

 

[OverLade]

that match was really ******** lol, but i dont think he should be banned

Someone be searchin they name.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Yes you can easily do that with anyone. But when fighting Metaknight you would most likely be playing defense and do some damage a few times when you think you can do a move that will not end up costing you to much. I mean for the majority of teh match you will be avoiding Metaknight and do some damage now and then. Your main point is to survive. playing aressive can really screw you over and you can easily make a mistake and get punished biog time.


Defense you stay away and wait for a mistake by your opponent. When fighting Metaknight you take it to the extrema but you will only win if the Metaknight makes a mistake. But for the majority of Metaknights attack if he makes a mistake he can quickly make up for it with almost no punishment ( unless he is fighting the red monkey)


ANd then in a few minutes this will be destroyed by a person that has been debating here since dawn.

Like poking a bit. Yea i get u.

Yea like if they use nado incorrectly, it can be punished. Umm..MK does have animation delay if he fast falls and hits the platform after performing; dair,fair, and bair. It looks like 4-5 frames? and Nair, uair looks like maybe 2-3 frames. Sorry for not using accurate frame data, going by off of my own eye sight--of course with correct hopping/spacing these dont really become a problem, also multiple jumps too-- but ur right though in the sense that MK aerials start and finish pretty quickly..so if the opponent makes a mistake it could be big time punishment for them

why? all i did was ask a question. Thats how i provoke conversation since i figure alot more people know more than me about this kind thing

 

[kirbywizard]

Like poking a bit. Yea i get u.

Yea like if they use nado incorrectly, it can be punished. Umm..MK does have animation delay if he fast falls and hits the platform after performing; dair,fair, and bair. It looks like 4-5 frames? and Nair, uair looks like maybe 2-3 frames. Sorry for not using accurate frame data, going by off of my own eye sight--of course with correct hopping/spacing these dont really become a problem, also multiple jumps too-- but ur right though in the sense that MK aerials start and finish pretty quickly..so if the opponent makes a mistake it could be big time punishment for them

why? all i did was ask a question. Thats how i provoke conversation since i figure alot more people know more than me about this kind thing

Hm no I am not mad at you for starting a nice conversation. Metaknight has a few moves that can be punished but the window for that punishment is very small as long as the Metaknight player is smart with what he does. If Metaknight makes a mistake, then he won't get punished like the majority of the characters would. Thats one of the reasons he is so good.

 

[Inui]

This is a bannable character.

Be glad MK isn't like this, lmao...

Ivan Ooze can fly, can't be thrown, can't be hit low, and gets out of hitstun at will.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Hm no I am not mad at you for starting a nice conversation. Metaknight has a few moves that can be punished but the window for that punishment is very small as long as the Metaknight player is smart with what he does. If Metaknight makes a mistake, then he won't get punished like the majority of the characters would.

yup ur correct, AND not alot of characters can close the gap and punish MK for that due to the quick cool down of the animation delay--i think in high levels of play ANY type of mistake can be punished. I think it all comes down to who the punisher to make his move swiftly-- easy said, HARDER done imho

 

[kirbywizard]

yup ur correct, AND not alot of characters can close the gap and punish MK for that due to the quick cool down of the animation delay--i think in high levels of play ANY type of mistake can be punished. I think it all comes down to who the punisher to make his move swiftly-- easy said, HARDER done imho

Agree and it is harder done if you have to fight Metaknight

I think your best bet to win against Metaknight with any character is to stay away and find the best option to keep Metaknight away from you. This would work better if Metaknight didn't have such an easy time going though the majority of projectiles.

 

[MarKO X]

This is a bannable character.

Be glad MK isn't like this, lmao...

Ivan Ooze can fly, can't be thrown, can't be hit low, and gets out of hitstun at will.

lol.
Ivan can't block.
MK could get all up in that ***.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Agree and it is harder done if you have to fight Metaknight

I think your best bet to win against Metaknight with any character is to stay away and find the best option to keep Metaknight away from you. This would work better if Metaknight didn't have such an easy time going though the majority of projectiles.

When it comes to projectiles though, it rly falls into the minds of who can use them to their fulliest potential. That, plus how versatile the projectile is. I think with a mixture of both of these aspects will still cause trouble for even the best of MKs

 

[kirbywizard]

When it comes to projectiles though, it rly falls into the minds of who can use them to their fulliest potential. That, plus how versatile the projectile is. I think with a mixture of both of these aspects will still cause trouble for even the best of MKs

That is why we have Snake and Diddy , they can cause any Metaknight to rethink there moves

 

[Inui]

lol.
Ivan can't block.
MK could get all up in that ***.

Too bad he can get out of hitstun at will even if he gets hit.

Just getting to him is basically impossible, anyways.

 

[Strong Badam]

lmfao <33
what about Superman in the Justice League fighting game on the Sega Genesis? he has an unblockable that combos into itself.

 

[Overswarm]

So it doesn't look like MK is going to get banned...

I guess those that keep *****ing can either learn the match-up better or quit the game!!!

Or main MK and make bank like me. ;D

 

[Nic64]

Too bad he can get out of hitstun at will even if he gets hit.

Just getting to him is basically impossible, anyways.

Brawl doesn't have hitstun to begin with!

 

[Ignatius]

lol.
Ivan can't block.
MK could get all up in that ***.

He can cancel any knockback into invincibility, and not just frames of invincibility, about 2 seconds.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

That is why we have Snake and Diddy , they can cause any Metaknight to rethink there moves

yup, but picking up these characters is no easy task. I just picked up snake again a few days ago and im still trying to get a feel for the physics of the grenades; everything from how they bounce on the slanted platforms at Yoshi's Island brawl, to how i can drop them, throw them, trap with them, and follow up with aerials when the opponent gets hit by them. Yet im still getting blown up by them and still using them incorrectly so its definitely something thats challenging but will be well worth the the labor in the end

and when it comes to diddys bananas; he aint nothing without them. But yet again like i already explained about snakes nades, diddys involves 2 banana peels and again its a similar type of learning curve

but i think these two characters do have some good defensive options against a aggressive MK--it feels good to be on a solid character that has a projectile that'll make any MK think twice before committing to an attack-- not many characters have this on MK

 

[MarKO X]

Too bad he can get out of hitstun at will even if he gets hit.

Just getting to him is basically impossible, anyways.

i dunno, it's battle of the first hit.
whoever gets the first hit wins, cause then they can just activate invincibility for the rest of the...

oh wait, that's right... we banned that.

 

[Browny]

lol @ your sig marko, and not banning EDC

clearly not enough people have used it, or had it used against them

 

[REL38]

yup, but picking up these characters is no easy task. I just picked up snake again a few days ago and im still trying to get a feel for the physics of the grenades; everything from how they bounce on the slanted platforms at Yoshi's Island brawl, to how i can drop them, throw them, trap with them, and follow up with aerials when the opponent gets hit by them. Yet im still getting blown up by them and still using them incorrectly so its definitely something thats challenging but will be well worth the the labor in the end

and when it comes to diddys bananas; he aint nothing without them. But yet again like i already explained about snakes nades, diddys involves 2 banana peels and again its a similar type of learning curve

After 5 years of throwing items in Smash, you kinda just know how to throw stuff to make them work. For me, this was the case for Diddy.

Pulling nades out with B made it weird since you had to throw them in an awkward way. Then I learned that you could shield to use them like regular items so everything worked out.

Playing casually really payed off in the end.

 

[Sosuke]

This was a broken character. ^_^

Too bad the video doesn't really demonstrate his full potential.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

After 5 years of throwing items in Smash, you kinda just know how to throw stuff to make them work. For me, this was the case for Diddy.

Pulling nades out with B made it weird since you had to throw them in an awkward way. Then I learned that you could shield to use them like regular items so everything worked out.

Playing casually really payed off in the end.

your trolling is ineffective

 

[BadAxel97]

He's not trolling, he's just trying to say that throwing items was an intuitive thing ever since the first smash.

 

['V']

your trolling is ineffective

Actually it's casual players that take up quite a bit of the gaming community in the first place. This community is no different.

 

[kozimoto]

Brawl doesn't have hitstun to begin with!

yeh lets just ban the entire cast cuz they all don't abide by the laws of hitstun

 

[BadAxel97]

I don't really think that's what Nic64 had in mind...

 

[Chaos0419]

If learning the match up is key, then Meta Knight will have an advantage, as he already does, when he learns how to deal with other characters in the roster. So technically learning the match up to overcome Meta Knight doesn't seem foolproof.



I guess most of the pros at Brawl suck then.

Um, as far as I know, many pros are against banning MK. And again, that's because they don't have any problems playing against someone that mains him. In fact, they look forward to that match-up.

 

['V']

I mean at this point, banning Brawl as a whole doesn't really sound like a bad idea at all. The Brawl+ guys really need to try to make this game better.

Like I said before, Snake is inching closer to Meta Knight's points and at the same time, he is moving away from Falco. You best believe at least the Snakes are not giving up.

 

[kozimoto]

I don't really think that's what Nic64 had in mind...

Or did he???

 

[BadAxel97]

...But I love brawl...
:'(

 

[Chaos0419]

I mean at this point, banning Brawl as a whole doesn't really sound like a bad idea at all. The Brawl+ guys really need to try to make this game better.

Wishful thinking.

 

[kirbywizard]

I mean at this point, banning Brawl as a whole doesn't really sound like a bad idea at all. The Brawl+ guys really need to try to make this game better.

Like I said before, Snake is inching closer to Meta Knight's points and at the same time, he is moving away from Falco. You best believe at least the Snakes are not giving up.

Snakes and Diddy players are our are little amount of light we have in defeating Metaknight . Maybe Jigglypuff if what the Jiggly boards say is true.

 

[kozimoto]

I mean at this point, banning Brawl as a whole doesn't really sound like a bad idea at all. The Brawl+ guys really need to try to make this game better.

Brawl plus has the potential to become something special. there is way to much hitstun for the speed of the characters. either slow the charractesr down(deactivate fun spped) or lower the hitstun

on top of that, the auto L canceling is a bad idea. isnt it possible to give mk some landing lag on arials so he is forced to L cancel. the game became easier than vbrawl. the combos in melee and smash 64 actually took skill to pull off.

its still a Work in Progress im sure these will be fixed eventually

 

[kozimoto]

Snakes and Diddy players are our are little amount of light we have in defeating Metaknight . Maybe Jigglypuff if what the Jiggly boards say is true.

ima seriously say that the snake v meta MU is even at the point the camp game is getting better and better with snake.

dont diddy boards consider meta MU even as well?

 

[Chuz]

Pro-ban: Ban Falcon, his taunts are so broken!
Anti-ban: A good Kirby will counter will a single Falcon punch lock.
Pro-ban: His taunts can't be punished, he has no bad match ups!
Anti-ban: Neither did Melee Falcon's, but he wasn't banned.
*repeat with different wording*

^pretty much the entire thread on banning MK excluding the random people.

I can't believe how many times the same arguments have been repeating. Everything that needed to be said was pretty much said 100s of posts and pages ago. Even this post that I just made!

Well, I've done enough reading. I'm just going to wait how much ever longer before this thread closes for the results, then proceed to read the cries of all the people who didn't get what they wanted.

 

[REL38]

your trolling is ineffective

I'm saying that after using items since Smash first began, I've got a good grasp on how and where to throw stuff to beat the opponent. I've stopped using items back in 06' because they just pretty darn annoying.

Using the experience I've had with throwing stuff like motion detector bombs, Mr. Saturns and Bob-ombs, I had no problem manipulating Diddy's banana's and Snake's gernades. So basically, I used the skill of throwing stuff in my gameplay when it comes to those two characters (Snake is one of my mains). So I owe some of that skill from the years I spent using items. So in a way, items helped make my Snake and Diddy a heck of a lot easier to pick up :D

Glad I learned Snake since he takes care of Metaknight way better than my Kirby can.