Bones0
Smash Legend
Yeah, I use Y for most things, but I use the control stick to shine-bair or jump-bair off the ledge because it prevents accidental walljumps.
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
unknown522
Some guy
I know for a fact that Raynex uses both x and y for jumping
unknown522
Some guy
Bones0
Smash Legend
Whatever happened to that post on how to camp Peach? :3
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
also you're 1 frame slower than jumping (assuming jump on the first frame possible) since there has to be 1 frame of shield before buffering jump.
Obviously you'll not gonna be perfect jumping asap all the time, that's why I was asking if anyone actually made the trade to be always 1 frame slower but never more or sometimes perfect sometimes 2 or more frames slower.
Fortress | Sveet
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Yeah. I don't recommend that, though. 1 frame slow isn't a big deal most of the time, but not being able to cover DI options is the real issue. I say just learn the regular way, its not that hard
Morin0
Smash Lord
n00b Q
Do you think Fox would be a bit higher in the tier list if his lasers stunned like Falco's?
/begin theorycrafting
edit: I ask because in 64 his lasers stun opponents so I'm wondering how that would be like in a Melee environment.
Do you think Fox would be a bit higher in the tier list if his lasers stunned like Falco's?
/begin theorycrafting
edit: I ask because in 64 his lasers stun opponents so I'm wondering how that would be like in a Melee environment.
Bones0
Smash Legend
He'd be the best by a landslide...
unknown522
Some guy
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Lots of bairs! =)
Silent Wolf
...
fox *****!
Nvm, not talking about this lol.
unknown522
Some guy
I've actually dedicated some time to writing up the camping peach thingy (on the bus....). It may turn out to be a bit lengthier than I thought.
Currently too tired to write ATM
Currently too tired to write ATM
I'm .. . . not sure. . . how lengthy the simple formula of fox vs. peach is. . .
It's really not any more complicated than this. Stop trying to force it to be so. The problem is, people tend to "lose focus" and get "creative".
"you're not "enjoyable" to play with anymore"?
dear lovage,
pick up falco <3
It's really not any more complicated than this. Stop trying to force it to be so. The problem is, people tend to "lose focus" and get "creative".
"you're not "enjoyable" to play with anymore"?
dear lovage,
pick up falco <3
unknown522
Some guy
Ugh
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
lol brookman not really.
The pre-edit summarized basically said that camping Peach is not as effective as playing smart aggression vs Peach.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Well write a post about that. :D
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I'd like to read that. Especially since I would agree. But camping her is still pretty nice.
*
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
He basically said stuff about camping peach leads to forfeiting stage position which is the last thing you want to do against a character whose main weakness is closing space and then you go into sad times where Peach is in your face spamming fair and you're not doing anything about it.
Lovage
Smash Hero
why would i play falco
falcos ****in gay
falcos ****in gay
Bing
Smash Master
Just curious, what are your guys thoughts on Fox's Shine bair. like practicality and things like that.
Homey strongbad, givin it away for free.
kd-
Smash Lord
I have a permanent residency in those sad times
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
Cactus 2:45 pm
only ****s give it away for free, homey
Strong Bad 2:49 pm
u strong mad?
Cactus 2:49 pm
haha
only ****s give it away for free, homey
Strong Bad 2:49 pm
u strong mad?
Cactus 2:49 pm
haha
unknown522
Some guy
Fox camping peach
There are many objectives you can choose for camping peach. Those objectives can either be:
- making her over-commit to something so that you can get a free punish
- to create an opening by assuming control of certain parts of the stage and forcing the opponent to come into said controlled spaces. Or to give you the positional advantage if the opponent chooses not to approach your space
- to rack on damage with less risk of getting hit (kind of boring though)
As I see it, peach has 4-5 options vs fox's camping. Which each option has a counter for. She can either:
1. Approach from the ground, and her main option out of that is to dash attack, since it's her only move that will reach quickly
2. Float at a height to try and cut off your jump towards a side platform. She'll probably try to f-air, but n-air is also an option in this case
3. They try to read a jump from the ground with a FH aerial, which she can fade away with. Either way, that one is the most risky option for her in the matchup
4. She doesn't fully commit to the approach and decides to WD back/DD to see if you'll attack her
5. She tries to approach you with a turnip, or tries some random gimmick. Probably the second most unsafe option
First step is to not go FD. What you need to do is shoot her with lasers to give peach the incentive to approach of course. The only time you should be lasering though is either when you are retreating, or when you are sure that you will be outside of peach's dash attack range after you land.
Taking control of center stage is where you are most powerful, since there is more space to DD, retreat away, or to the top platform (assuming you're not on stadium). Usually this will mean that peach is near one of the edges of the stage. This is where you want to laser a bit if she's not going to approach. If she takes a float height to go above the lasers, then you can either DD and wait for the whiff, or back off and move to the side platform to see if she will approach you. If she doesn't then wait for the float to run out and then come down and laser. If she does come, then move to the top platform and run around her, then go back to lasers. If you're absolutely Sure you can land a hit, then go for a b-air and see if you can land a combo. The main reason peach has problems in dealing with this is because, she is slow, doesn't have super long range, can't rise beyond a certain height quickly enough due to a crappy DJ, and doesn't have a fast move that arcs around her (well, f-tilt I guess, but that move has many problems of its own). Her u-air is a great move, but it can be spaced around pretty consistently. Same with her n-air (though that move is sooo gay).
Anyways, to my next point about her problems. With all these combined it kind of makes her have to initiate something, and/or anticipate where the fox is going to go. Even if she chooses to do nothing, she is a sitting duck when fox is above her on platforms. Usually peach would CC an attack from an opponent coming down on her, but then his drill breaks CC anyway and leads to a combo as we all know. If she wants to try to DJ and come up after you, or if she goes on one of the side platforms, you can go underneath her and take your positional advantage (u-tilt underneath, or b-air if you can intercept the aerial).
If you're at the side of the stage and trying to camp her, then as soon as she gets toward center stage (probably a bit further away on yoshi's), then jump to the platform that you are underneath and see what the peach does. If she threw a dash attack preemptively, that's a free hit for you. If you see her jump at you with an aerial, you can either try to move around it and b-air her, or shield it and then go for the punish. Alternatively, you can jump around her to the top platform and then move to the other side of the stage and camp again. At that point it's on you to decide when to attack her and when not to attack. Also watch for DD -> grab. It's pretty easy to tell when and where it's coming.
I know that I didn't mention anything about camping vs turnips. But that is because you be mowing down peach anytime she has one in her hand (maybe not vs a stitchface I guess).
Something else that people don't use in matchups: if you feel trapped by the edge, it's not a bad idea to grab the edge and do a ledge WD to attack an opponent that doesn't respect your space.
I feel like I'm missing some detail, but meh. I guess I'll add later when I remember.
Edit: man Jman was so good at camping peaches. It actually does take a bit of finesse
There are many objectives you can choose for camping peach. Those objectives can either be:
- making her over-commit to something so that you can get a free punish
- to create an opening by assuming control of certain parts of the stage and forcing the opponent to come into said controlled spaces. Or to give you the positional advantage if the opponent chooses not to approach your space
- to rack on damage with less risk of getting hit (kind of boring though)
As I see it, peach has 4-5 options vs fox's camping. Which each option has a counter for. She can either:
1. Approach from the ground, and her main option out of that is to dash attack, since it's her only move that will reach quickly
2. Float at a height to try and cut off your jump towards a side platform. She'll probably try to f-air, but n-air is also an option in this case
3. They try to read a jump from the ground with a FH aerial, which she can fade away with. Either way, that one is the most risky option for her in the matchup
4. She doesn't fully commit to the approach and decides to WD back/DD to see if you'll attack her
5. She tries to approach you with a turnip, or tries some random gimmick. Probably the second most unsafe option
First step is to not go FD. What you need to do is shoot her with lasers to give peach the incentive to approach of course. The only time you should be lasering though is either when you are retreating, or when you are sure that you will be outside of peach's dash attack range after you land.
Taking control of center stage is where you are most powerful, since there is more space to DD, retreat away, or to the top platform (assuming you're not on stadium). Usually this will mean that peach is near one of the edges of the stage. This is where you want to laser a bit if she's not going to approach. If she takes a float height to go above the lasers, then you can either DD and wait for the whiff, or back off and move to the side platform to see if she will approach you. If she doesn't then wait for the float to run out and then come down and laser. If she does come, then move to the top platform and run around her, then go back to lasers. If you're absolutely Sure you can land a hit, then go for a b-air and see if you can land a combo. The main reason peach has problems in dealing with this is because, she is slow, doesn't have super long range, can't rise beyond a certain height quickly enough due to a crappy DJ, and doesn't have a fast move that arcs around her (well, f-tilt I guess, but that move has many problems of its own). Her u-air is a great move, but it can be spaced around pretty consistently. Same with her n-air (though that move is sooo gay).
Anyways, to my next point about her problems. With all these combined it kind of makes her have to initiate something, and/or anticipate where the fox is going to go. Even if she chooses to do nothing, she is a sitting duck when fox is above her on platforms. Usually peach would CC an attack from an opponent coming down on her, but then his drill breaks CC anyway and leads to a combo as we all know. If she wants to try to DJ and come up after you, or if she goes on one of the side platforms, you can go underneath her and take your positional advantage (u-tilt underneath, or b-air if you can intercept the aerial).
If you're at the side of the stage and trying to camp her, then as soon as she gets toward center stage (probably a bit further away on yoshi's), then jump to the platform that you are underneath and see what the peach does. If she threw a dash attack preemptively, that's a free hit for you. If you see her jump at you with an aerial, you can either try to move around it and b-air her, or shield it and then go for the punish. Alternatively, you can jump around her to the top platform and then move to the other side of the stage and camp again. At that point it's on you to decide when to attack her and when not to attack. Also watch for DD -> grab. It's pretty easy to tell when and where it's coming.
I know that I didn't mention anything about camping vs turnips. But that is because you be mowing down peach anytime she has one in her hand (maybe not vs a stitchface I guess).
Something else that people don't use in matchups: if you feel trapped by the edge, it's not a bad idea to grab the edge and do a ledge WD to attack an opponent that doesn't respect your space.
I feel like I'm missing some detail, but meh. I guess I'll add later when I remember.
Edit: man Jman was so good at camping peaches. It actually does take a bit of finesse
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I thought putting pressure on her when she had a stitch is good?
Also, lol at nair being gay in a long post about camping Peach. Unknown, you so funny.
Also, lol at nair being gay in a long post about camping Peach. Unknown, you so funny.
unknown522
Some guy
Man, that move is stupid
Edit: I definitely missed out on some detail. Can't remeber though
Edit: I definitely missed out on some detail. Can't remeber though
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
yooo **** peach's Nair.
move is gay.
Unknown, that post was super helpful ^^
I read it as a flowchart.
move is gay.
Unknown, that post was super helpful ^^
I read it as a flowchart.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Thanks. When you talk about pressuring Peach when she has a turnip, do you just mean SHFFL her, or should I be doing more spacing FH bair stuff?
voorhese
Smash Master
She can still upb oos holding a turnip, if you are on the back of her shield you can most likely get away with spamming tech. They can reverse upb oos, but that is like their ONLY option.
unknown522
Some guy
just spam her down. She can't n-air fast enough with a turnip on hand, and can't CC -> d-smash. Just try to force her to shield if you can't Get a combo. Then grab
Van.
Smash Ace
unknown in that tier list discussion thing you said foxes necessary technicals are easier than falcos.
Do you mind expanding on that a bit?
Do you mind expanding on that a bit?
kalamazhu
Smash Journeyman
Sup guys so i have a bunch of questions
but ill start with this one.
usually when im juggling characters its pretty easy because fox bair out ranges and out prioritizes most characters's downward moves. However against falco when i hit him up he just double jumps and downairs to the ground beating my bair. I mean i've trades sometimes and even beat the dair sometimes but not too often. Is there a better option for juggling falco or should i just wait for the Dair and punish the landing on the ground?
but ill start with this one.
usually when im juggling characters its pretty easy because fox bair out ranges and out prioritizes most characters's downward moves. However against falco when i hit him up he just double jumps and downairs to the ground beating my bair. I mean i've trades sometimes and even beat the dair sometimes but not too often. Is there a better option for juggling falco or should i just wait for the Dair and punish the landing on the ground?
PB&J
Smash Hero
I agree with you
