Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Brookman]

it's definitely that red head from yu-yu-hakusho.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

lol @ scrubs calling brookman bad

 

[KAOSTAR]

im pretty sure fox cannot stall thru lava. sorry if my sarcasm meter is broken.

brookman, considering u responded to me, there is no way id be agreeing with you. my post was agreeing and adding to what was said by toph and sveet.

bottom line, no shine is better.period.

 

[Lovage]

holy crap this thread ****ing blows LOL


i pray on my savior raynex to rescue it

 

[Brookman]

im pretty sure fox cannot stall thru lava. sorry if my sarcasm meter is broken.

brookman, considering u responded to me, there is no way id be agreeing with you. my post was agreeing and adding to what was said by toph and sveet.

bottom line, no shine is better.period.

1. BAD!

2. It is not worth going over, but your reading comprehension is poor.

3. shine vs. no shine is a matter of preference.

 

[Divinokage]

holy crap this thread ****ing blows LOL


i pray on my savior raynex to rescue it

Raynex needs to come and lay down the law!

 

[Brookman]

holy crap this thread ****ing blows LOL


i pray on my savior raynex to rescue it

GTFO Then. Not like you ever post anything worth ****. Why don't you go record another tech skill video.

 

[JPOBS]

The only thing raynex is gonna do is come in here and talk about how friggin **** perfect ledgedash is. Watch his recent set vs Bam and Vwins on the MAN youtube channel.

He does flawless ledgedashes for full sets and iirc doesn't SD even once.

b****es don't know

 

[Harbinger]

pics or it didnt happen.

 

[L__]

what has this thread become

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I remember when the fox thread was the best on the boards. Then PP won and falco boards was the **** but fox boards were still up there. Somewhere along the way falcon boards and the fox boards swapped or something.

 

[THeDarKnesS]

I blame Brookman But in actuality, the Fox boards still aren't that bad. It's unreasonable to expect productivity 100% of the time. A lot of the people who post in here are regulars and socialization and arguments are inevitable. It'll pass in due time, all it takes is 1 person to step it up.

edit: All this over ledge dashing? LOL, nvm, this thread is doomed!

 

[Wenbobular]

I remember when the fox thread was the best on the boards. Then PP won and falco boards was the **** but fox boards were still up there. Somewhere along the way falcon boards and the fox boards swapped or something.

I don't think that's ever been the case
Also recent posts in the Falcon boards have been littered with porn -_-

 

[RaynEX]

holy crap this thread ****ing blows LOL


i pray on my savior raynex to rescue it

*Swoops in from above*

3. shine vs. no shine is a matter of preference.

Yes, but no shine is still better.

Raynex needs to come and lay down the law!

*Swings gavel around aimlessly*

1. If you're going to put in lots of time perfecting the shine ledge-dash, might as well remove the shine so the technique benefits you more. Regardless of what anyone says, perfect ledge-dashing WITHOUT THE SHINE is always better. As Kaostar mentioned previously, it saves frames (more invincibility) and doesn't give your opponent a giant blue hexagonal indicator that you're doing something dangerous from the edge.

2. I also read a post saying that there are other things better than perfect ledge-dashing.

lol

You go from arguably the worst position in the game, to point blank range with invincibility. Whether your intentions are offensive or defensive isn't the point. You're on the stage, with invincibility.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i don't get why people complain about this thread, the only reason it seems worse is because it's one of the most popular specific threads, lots of people post here..

i also don't get what expectations are being let down here..if you ask a question or bring up a topic it is debated within the thread..

lol lovage you also rarely post here unless your **** talkin' or complaining about this board

your a good fox spread some knowledge to start topic if that's ever the case.

 

[joeplicate]

i'd rather have someone post really great advice every once in awhile instead of absolute garbage advice, constantly

*looks at oscar*
*looks at everyone else in here*

 

[Palpi]

Trahh knows whats up!

And Raynex <3

 

[JPOBS]

i'd rather have someone post really great advice every once in awhile instead of absolute garbage advice, constantly

*looks at oscar*
*looks at everyone else in here*

i really like whenever you post about stuff, usually very insightful..


Also, i hate it when people come in like "lol this thread sucks" and then leave.
just post something more constructive or start a discussion of your own furreal.

 

[L__]

Also, i hate it when people come in like "lol this thread sucks" and then leave.

I don't understand how some of you can play Fox at such a high level sometimes. Fox feels incredibly difficult to stay stable with on a per match basis as well as a per set/per tournament basis. When I play Fox I feel as if it's incredibly difficult to maintain momentum. Regardless of how much I try to have a positive mindset and incorporate what works into my matches, I can't keep the speed up, the intelligent play up, etc.

It's come to the point where I've been playing Falco and Marth more as of recent and things feel so much easier.

Sorry if I don't post here often

I don't feel as if I could contribute anything of use lol since we have people like RaynEX and such.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

fox thread was the best on the boards. ... Somewhere along the way falcon boards and the fox boards swapped or something.

I don't think that's ever been the case
Also recent posts in the Falcon boards have been littered with porn -_-

I think you misjudged what i meant by "best"

 

[joeplicate]

oh yes dude


smashboards.com
my favorite place to enjoy pornography on the internet

 

[JPOBS]

I don't understand how some of you can play Fox at such a high level sometimes. Fox feels incredibly difficult to stay stable with on a per match basis as well as a per set/per tournament basis. When I play Fox I feel as if it's incredibly difficult to maintain momentum. Regardless of how much I try to have a positive mindset and incorporate what works into my matches, I can't keep the speed up, the intelligent play up, etc.

It's come to the point where I've been playing Falco and Marth more as of recent and things feel so much easier.

honestly, I play mostly Falco in singles in tournament unless its vs puff or peach. But that may be a comfort thing as i've been playing falco longer than fox. But thats just my john. I don't really know i don't play more fox, i just use him in doubles mostly and friendlies because i find him more fun in many ways than falco..

Sorry if I don't post here often

I don't feel as if I could contribute anything of use lol since we have people like RaynEX and such.

everyone's word is valued. People like raynex and silentwolf aren't always around. Fine discussion can be had with anyone, you don't have to be super pro to give input.

 

[L__]

alright guise

say hi to the newest active poster maybe in the fox threads

after I prove my posts are chock-filled with quality of course

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i'd rather have someone post really great advice every once in awhile instead of absolute garbage advice, constantly

*looks at oscar*
*looks at everyone else in here*

im pretty sure everyone can agree on not wanting garbage advice ever, so that's not a great comparison..

i don't see why it can't be casual discussion aswell as really great advice, all the time. **** doesn't need to be serious business 24/7, i'm sure you guys can tell people just enjoy chatting casually in here, especially since only certain people come in here, it's basically a group.

it's up to YOU, lovage, raynex, uk522, etc etc to make valid posts or clear up any clouded information/garbage advice..

not much topic is gonna come from "do u guys like to nair -> nair -> usmash peach?" in comparison to something deep that can come from you guys.

i'm not expecting **** from any of you guys, ever, but anyone who complains about it being a ****ty board surely isn't helping by reminding everyone that the board is going to ****, instead bring up good new topic..

 

[Lovage]

yea i mighta been buggin. it was mostly me taking GOD! off my ignore list to see what he said and realizing it was a huge mistake that pissed me off LOOL.

You go from arguably the worst position in the game, to point blank range with invincibility. Whether your intentions are offensive or defensive isn't the point. You're on the stage, with invincibility.

tbh i thought about it more and some of the techniques that i've practiced and gotten good at are just as risky/suicidal as ledgedashing LOL so i actually think imma try actually turning on my gamecube again and practice is some.


dunno if i'll ever take the shine out of my ledgestalls tho, i've been doing them like that for like 4 years haha. that, and i don't really use ledgestalls as much anyways





edit: fku trah

 

[joeplicate]

sorry if i wasn't clear, i meant more like


what does it matter if someone comes around to shoot the breeze, make a joke, or spam a little, if when they DO give advice, it's really amazing?

i would rather have someone do that (i.e. oscar) than constantly debate about silly things with the utmost seriousness all the time, especially when others start taking it personally.

like, i meant to imply that, when it comes to advice, quality > quantity



still though, i think there should be a higher standard we hold people to when it comes to posting here. it's so obnoxious to see 25 new, hard-to-follow posts spring up within one night, discussing something minute about fox's game, and watching people get mad about it when they disagree!

i figure as long as we generally aim to give good advice, put the game and the proof in front of our emotions, and gently remind people when they're being dumb, it's all gravy.

that said, we're in serious need of some bull**** moderation, cause there's a lot up in hurrr




SO
my thoughts on shine off the edge:
i personally like shine + upB stall a little better than normal upB stall, because doing the shine is an easy way to drop lower, which makes you a lot harder to hit.

either with an upB stall or a shine + upB stall, people don't normally aim to get hit, and you're basically dead even if you get hit and keep your jump, so i figure that difference doesn't really matter too much.

plus, it's really good for shinespikes, since you grab the edge immediately after hitting them, and get your invincibility back for the edgehog. this is great for characters like doc whose recovery will **** you up if you get hit by it; you can spread your invincibility out far enough to hold the edge through his upB, etc etc. also, if you miss, there's a chance you can go for another shinespike. frames on frames of invincibility, i'm telling ya.

overall i think it's just really good muscle memory.


before ledge wavedashing:
if it lets you do it more consistently, then i think that's the most important thing of all, especially since it's such a high-risk maneuver. unless you're REALLY REALLY REALLY stretching for things to iron out of your fox game, the difference between the 2 frames or whatever seems absolutely negligible to me.

if you can do it consistently without shining, then that's great too, and i suppose it's a little less telegraphed, so it might be slightly better.

i've also seen lucky actually HIT with the shine, then wavedash up and continue his combo. this isn't very widely used though, because it's incredibly hard and flashy, i suppose. but if the opportunity presents itself, more power to you for pulling it off and ****** :D


really though, there's no reason why you can't learn both of these things both ways, because there are slight differences which make some more useful than others in certain situations.


edit: and yeah, GOD is mad annoying LOL
this fool was absolutely trippin in the ELO thread

 

[JPOBS]

hitting the shine->ledgedash combo is pretty pimp not gonna lie. I think people should set out learning to not use the shine when they first start learning it tho so it doesn't become a crutch. But i reckon everyone up in here has always learnt to do it one way or the other.

and moderation is for suckas. we get by aight without it.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

brookman just throwing this out there but you instigate fighting pretty often..you respond in smartass ways to alot of people, and overall you just bring a negative vibe posting the way you do..

i think you post some insightful stuff SOMETIMES..but you confuse me with other posts..like arguing over the shine thing when clearly it takes away from efficiency..i feel like you knew this, but you just wanted to argue over it anyways.

ledgedashing is SO good and the fact that you SD from it[i have such consistency with ledge-dash that i'm flabbergasted that you find it technically demanding] doesn't mean you should give up on it. it literally makes no sense that you should not learn something just because you can die doing it WRONG, when you could just learn to do it right and not die from it ever.

also im not telling you how to act at all, but im letting you know that you help create alot of tension on this board for certain people

don't get me wrong i have nothing against you personally we dont really argue, but i can see the way you argue with others lol

YEAH I TYPE ALOT

honestly everyone just needs to keep their personal feelings aside and let debate be debate. it's insanely annoying when people start getting angry or **** talk just because of a huge disagreement, it's not about being right people, it's about coming to common grounds on knowledge.


@ LOVAGE ;
When playing mango does he make you play nervous at all? Or has that passed and now it's just how good he is? As usual, you are improving pretty well, you're also playing way better against mango from the tournament matches i've seen over the months.

not gonna lie his falco is looking rustier than usual, it's good to hear he's gonna be practicing fox/falco alot for genesis

can't wait to fap to that fox allllllllll dayyy

 

[RaynEX]

i'd rather have someone post really great advice every once in awhile instead of absolute garbage advice, constantly

I couldn't agree with you more.

Trahh knows whats up!

And Raynex <3

<3

I don't understand how some of you can play Fox at such a high level sometimes. Fox feels incredibly difficult to stay stable with on a per match basis as well as a per set/per tournament basis. When I play Fox I feel as if it's incredibly difficult to maintain momentum. Regardless of how much I try to have a positive mindset and incorporate what works into my matches, I can't keep the speed up, the intelligent play up, etc.

It's come to the point where I've been playing Falco and Marth more as of recent and things feel so much easier.

Sorry if I don't post here often

I don't feel as if I could contribute anything of use lol since we have people like RaynEX and such.

Playing Fox at peak performance is incredibly draining, especially in tournament. I understand that at times it can be frustrating, but the payoff is invaluable.

Fox can be played at top level in a multiplicity of ways. Factors like speed, general strategy, and move selection vary GREATLY from player to player. I've always believed that Fox works well regardless of how fast or slow you want to play him. Don't try to hold yourself up to some ridiculous technical standard if your entire game suffers in the process. Play at a pace where you can still ACTIVELY THINK about what's occurring. Then, you will see your thought processes flowing from brain to screen. Kick it into overdrive when you have an opening, or when a plan comes to fruition. That's when you get the momentum, that's where you should put all your energy. Aside from that, try keep a steady pace so you don't tire yourself out too fast.

dunno if i'll ever take the shine out of my ledgestalls tho, i've been doing them like that for like 4 years haha. that, and i don't really use ledgestalls as much anyways

If its already an ingrained habit, its probably best not to stress yourself. But there are times when the shine is a completely useless component of the stall. Being in the shine for those few frames leads to you getting dsmashed by Peach, dtilted by Marth, etc.

before ledge wavedashing:
if it lets you do it more consistently, then i think that's the most important thing of all, especially since it's such a high-risk maneuver. unless you're REALLY REALLY REALLY stretching for things to iron out of your fox game, the difference between the 2 frames or whatever seems absolutely negligible to me.

if you can do it consistently without shining, then that's great too, and i suppose it's a little less telegraphed, so it might be slightly better.

i've also seen lucky actually HIT with the shine, then wavedash up and continue his combo. this isn't very widely used though, because it's incredibly hard and flashy, i suppose. but if the opportunity presents itself, more power to you for pulling it off and ****** :D


really though, there's no reason why you can't learn both of these things both ways, because there are slight differences which make some more useful than others in certain situations.

I don't think its negligible at all; every frame counts.

I want to touch on these "slight differences" for a moment:

When i play Unknown522 for instance, there are times when he perfect ledge-dash -> nairs, and is completely invincible for the majority of it. So much so that I actually run away to avoid it and counter attack. If he does the shine ledge-dash, the invincibility doesn't cover him as well during the nair and he trades / gets beaten more. You can also use the perfect ledge-dash to go through moves with longer frame activity / multiple hitboxes so there is less chance of you being interrupted. Moves that come to find are Marth's fsmash / nair, Falco's laser / dair, ICs smashes, etc.

For all intents and purposes, I believe its still better to omit the shine. To each his own though.


EDIT: I'll try to flex my moderator powers more. I really don't want to penalize anybody for making silly posts, but the general consensus is that the pointless **** has to stop. I agree that breaks in serious conversation are needed to keep the air fresh and the dialogue light-hearted, but there are times when it ends up going too far (i.e.: offending people)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

trah spitting truth

 

[JPOBS]

not gonna lie his falco is looking rustier than usual, it's good to hear he's gonna be practicing fox/falco alot for genesis

can't wait to fap to that fox allllllllll dayyy

I was thinking the same. His falco was seeming less than stellar and not really up to what im used to seeing from him (which is a LOT)

 

[RaynEX]

His Falco IS looking kinda dilapidated... but its MANGO. He'll be back in his prime soon enough.

i think you post some insightful stuff SOMETIMES..but you confuse me with other posts..like arguing over the shine thing when clearly it takes away from efficiency..i feel like you knew this, but you just wanted to argue over it anyways.

This is how I feel ALOT of the time. I ask myself "I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing...but why is he doing it?" Arguing for the sake of arguing isn't good for anyone.

But we've talked this **** to death. Time to get happy *****es!

EDIT:

Kirbykaze bought a Dazzle so we've been recording alot more. Time to get all the kinks out of my game and put some new vids up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CqavSKJjOk

We also got some great footage recorded from a tournament last week. (featuring Unknown's RIDICULOUS combo!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYBqdYokbBk#t=06m30s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76dfiaBGD44

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

lol thanks guys.

His Falco IS looking kinda dilapidated... but its MANGO. He'll be back in his prime soon enough.



This is how I feel ALOT of the time. I ask myself "I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing...but why is he doing it?" Arguing for the sake of arguing isn't good for anyone.

But we've talked this **** to death. Time to get happy *****es!

yeahh i know, i felt like i was kinda digging back into negativity posting what i did, but i wanted to get that out there, cause it's always kinda been that way to me.

ANYWAAAAAYS! Raynex generally after a shine OOS[the sloppy version where you aren't grounded after] on non-fallers, and it hits, what do you tend to do? nothing that involves the ledge, let's just say center stage.

i'm assuming you don't perfectly waveshineOOS everytime lol.


ahhh GF's mango vs lovage, i loveeee doing the uair -> bair -> dair combo he did last stock last game. sooo satisfying

 

[RaynEX]

ANYWAAAAAYS! Raynex generally after a shine OOS[the sloppy version where you aren't grounded after] on non-fallers, and it hits, what do you tend to do? nothing that involves the ledge, let's just say center stage.

i'm assuming you don't perfectly waveshineOOS everytime lol.


ahhh GF's mango vs lovage, i loveeee doing the uair -> bair -> dair combo he did last stock last game. sooo satisfying

Non-grounded Shine OOS (hit):

-Quick double-jump, fastfall, waveland back
-Quick double-jump, fastfall, waveland forwards, tech-chase / shield
-Quick double-jump, pew pew pew pew pew
-Quick double-jump, waveland onto nearby platform, chase from above.

These are the options I cycle between. The factor that decides which I use most is usually character. I tend to give chase if I'm facing a character who falls down from the shine. I tend to platform waveland or laser if I'm facing say...Peach or Marth.

i just watched that Mango v Lovage match too. Goddam it does look satisfying lol

 

[joeplicate]

i really wanna start doing mini-writeups of good matches for this thread


i guess it'd be best to focus on specific tactics, like "the value of tech skill," "becoming a master baiter," etc

lovage vs mango vids seem like a good place to start since a lot of us have seen it already lol



idk, i'm just in a really productive mood right now
i have a midterm that's due in the morning LMAO
so i went into productive mode to start getting **** done, and it's flowed into cleaning up my room and my desk, sorting through my things, and making future plans hahahaha

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i'd love to hear it, werent you gonna do something like this before?

becoming a master baiter. this is WAY too casually awesome, wow.

why am i the only one who's 'liked' this thread?! IT'S FOX ADVICE don't act like you ******** nukkas don't got facebook!

yeah go checkout my profile faags

 

[KirbyKaze]

Raynex how do I fight Peach with Fox?

 

[Lovage]

unknown i watched the last 3 matches in your set with bam and i had a few thoughts i wanted to post before i go to sleep

you tried to approach with nair approximately 500 thousand times and they pretty much all sucked lol. this was the #1 reason why you lost. nair against falco at low percents is like....****ty, and even at high percents, the way you were using it is as if you were playing for trades, which ****ed you up hella bad.

but more importantly, you didn't mix up your approach for ****, and bam caught on pretty obviously in the last 2 games. just look at the first 3 stocks on stadium and you'll see what i mean. you had a huge LACK of full hop bairs (when u think hes gonna nair/dair in,) short hop drills, and kooky uairs.

it really just looked like you didn't have ur head in the game as much. you were super stoked cuz you ***** him on fd, but when he adapted to your air patterns (full nairing from the platform like every time) and approaches, it looked like you got frustrated in your tech skill mistakes (fsmashing by accident, dash attacking at 0% etc) instead of getting frustrated at the fact that he's reading you like a **** book.


that said, bams lookin pretty fresh but u can **** him next time

 

[omgwtfToph]

shine > up b. now what bro?

shine cost one or two frames in TAS.

i agree. the shine is really not that telegraphic imo haha

especially since, if the shine->ledgedash helps you do it fluidly enough that you retain sufficient invincibility frames, a little bit of predictability shouldn't matter that much cuz what you do AFTER the ledgedash is still a) invincible and b) entirely up to you



Ok, so unknown522, I saw your set with Bam. OMFG sick game 2. You're the second Fox I've seen to use first hit uair into stuff, after Thunders - even though I know M2K was talking about it. I have a few questions to you about your FD game vs. space animals.

1. Your techchase game. I notice at low %'s you go for the techchase instead of chaingrabbing, which is understandable, especially if you have a stiff controller or something. What's your modus operandi here? Do you let them land, usmash on missed tech, and go for the grab on everything else? At what % do you like to start chaingrabbing?

For the record, I don't think uthrow usmash is good at 0. I'm pretty sure DI away makes it so you can't techchase on reaction.

2. On that sick double thunders -> 0-to-death you did, you did utilt into regrab at the higher %'s a lot. Do you know if utilt to grab again works versus any DI at that % (so like, above 50-60%)? Or do you have to like shffl -> stuff if they DI far enough away? I know you can combo utilt into run cancel utilt (the Otto) but I suck at that **** LOL. I don't react fast enough.


Actually, I would be down to just talk about chaingrabbing (and comboing after chaingrab) theory in general. Honestly most Foxes suck at it, compared to like, good Marths. and this includes me, even though I play FD only in tourney -_-; I blame the fact that I hardly ever get to smash, lol. anyway, I think Fox SHOULD be able to guarantee a kill (unless they DI off the stage, then you get an edgeguard anyway) but the chaingrab tree kind of explodes after 50% so yeah...


edit: rofl at same-time-post with me complimenting unknown on the first 2 games at the same time lovage critiques him on the last 3. LOL looks like we got all the bases covered

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Raynex how do I fight Peach with Fox?

I'm told he's the best against Vidjo.