Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Erkekjetter]

At low percents if they DI the up throw you can get an up smash off. Most marth's try to fair you because they think you'll go for the up air, so up smash either trades or hits outright.

 

[Mushu]

Or you can shine>grab on low percentages.

Shine sends them the same direction at any percent, you can probably get a shine-grab at almost any percent.

Does uthrow uair always combo on Marth at any (low) percent for any DI?

Sometimes they DI forward and fair me out of it but I'm not sure if it was because I was slow

The u-air can get marth very well, since he's floaty it works more than well, space the fairs and just make sure to be under them and not to the s-e or the s-w of them, fair/bair can get them out of uair combos.

 

[omgwtfToph]

What do you guys do after you shine a Marth on the ground

I usually either wavedash out then run JC grab if I'm feeling safe or wavedash out into SH nair or if I'm feeling tech skill spammy then I'll WD jab SH d-air shine WD jab F-smash lol

These sound like terrible ideas, because either can get destroyed by CC grab, and the latter especially is vulnerable to Marth putting his shield up after jab -> dair

I almost always grab after I shine a Marth on the ground lol

 

[Erkekjetter]

I thought waveshine grab on marth was pretty much a given, unless you feel like up smashing.

Speaking of which, how susceptible to DI is waveshine up smash against Marth?

 

[Wenbobular]

They need to smash DI, and then you can still get it if your wavedash is flawless but it gets a lot harder because they move a lot farther

 

[omgwtfToph]

I feel like SDI inwards would actually make it harder because most people typically expect Marth to slide a fair distance and go for the running usmash. Kinda like how Peach/Falcon DI'ing inwards on the waveshine sometimes makes it harder to pull off because you might accidentally overshoot

@Wenbo, I used to have "Blues Drive Monster" as my title on another forum LOL. I approve

 

[JPOBS]

That's when it doesn't combo on forward DI?

alternatively you could tell me how to get the CPU to DI forward in training mode, if that's possible

If they DI forward at really low percents, try short hopping the upair instead.

training mode: set the computer to evade. walk up to them so they jump over you. Grab as they are landing.

 

[unknown522]

Does uthrow uair always combo on Marth at any (low) percent for any DI?

Sometimes they DI forward and fair me out of it but I'm not sure if it was because I was slow

I can't get it to combo from 0-9% when he DIs the throw, so I usually just n-air at that point. If he lands on a platform, then I follow with a u-tilt. If not, then I usually shield, or DD if I think that they will attack or jump.

 

[Karibola]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w03fmd9ZGg#t=02m45s

Here shroomed gets a hit with an upsmash at 76% and dies on FoD. With DI, you can survive an upsmash at 76% as doc on the top platform of FoD. However if doc charges an upsmash, as in the game, you can die much earlier. Does this happen with moves other than doc's upsmash?

 

[lanabo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w03fmd9ZGg#t=02m45s

Here shroomed gets a hit with an upsmash at 76% and dies on FoD. With DI, you can survive an upsmash at 76% as doc on the top platform of FoD. However if doc charges an upsmash, as in the game, you can die much earlier. Does this happen with moves other than doc's upsmash?

I think it should work with all smashes/charged moves. Charged smashes=stronger, no?

EDIT: misread it completely lol..

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Your weight decreases when you charge smashes. This happens to every character. For example, if you shine marth while he is charging a fsmash he will fall from the shine.

 

[ShroudedOne]

What!? Really? You get lighter when charging smashes? Does anyone know why?

This game is really, really odd...

 

[Karibola]

The more you know! Thanks, guess it shows how little I pay attention while playing :/

 

[battousai555]

Your weight decreases when you charge smashes. This happens to every character. For example, if you shine marth while he is charging a fsmash he will fall from the shine.

Doesn't every character fall from shine while charging a smash?

You can land a thunders combo on Bowser if he's charging a smash, lol. I don't think most ppl are aware of this.

 

[KirbyKaze]

TBH if Marth DIs the throw at such a low percent I usually prefer going for something janky like SH uair or a sex kick just because it might lead to something really sick and if I get u-throw > FJ anything I can't legitimately combo after the aerial (and illegitimate combos are really hard in that situation because Marth lands annoyingly quickly after being hit by FJ bair below 20 or whatever).

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Winston, that dashdance post was beautiful.

Artfully written.

 

[sanchaz]

TBH if Marth DIs the throw at such a low percent I usually prefer going for something janky like SH uair or a sex kick just because it might lead to something really sick and if I get u-throw > FJ anything I can't legitimately combo after the aerial (and illegitimate combos are really hard in that situation because Marth lands annoyingly quickly after being hit by FJ bair below 20 or whatever).

hmmm. I like this, I'll try this against dart next time.

up-throw to nair-regrab or just start nairing like crazy.

or upthrow upsmash.

I'm 90% sure he's going to try to fair me so why not do this instead.

note's taken

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you go with the sex kick (either of them) do not try to regrab or sex kick again if you get it. Instead, do up tilt. Because up tilt is amazingly ridiculous and will link to one up air guaranteed and barring an SDI or platform interference you will procure another aerial.

Don't do the regrab because it will miss if he does a good side-B in an effort to break the combo (he floats aboves your arms, then gets a free dair > grab on you which is gay as balls), and it's really easy to jump too. Because it's kind of slow, too, if he fairs well he can sometimes get it off first. Up tilt bypasses a lot of these issues because it hits above Fox super quickly, so it often nicks his jump, gets him if he does float side-B, and usually trades with fair (or stuffs it, or does a weird evade on it because of Fox's shortness and body contortions). Marth doesn't really have a good combo-break move that hits all around him or below him (counter is kind of fail for a variety of reasons) so moves with crouches or that hit above you are generally effective when he's coming down from or working against technically illegitimate combos.

Oh, and if you nair or bair again after the first one then yeah it can technically work but the up tilt leads to way more and way better things so just do it unless you're trying some gimpy edge jank or something really situational like that.



.

 

[sanchaz]

If you go with the sex kick (either of them) do not try to regrab or sex kick again if you get it. Instead, do up tilt. Because up tilt is amazingly ridiculous and will link to one up air guaranteed and barring an SDI or platform interference you will procure another aerial.

Don't do the regrab because it will miss if he does a good side-B in an effort to break the combo (he floats aboves your arms, then gets a free dair > grab on you which is gay as balls), and it's really easy to jump too. Because it's kind of slow, too, if he fairs well he can sometimes get it off first. Up tilt bypasses a lot of these issues because it hits above Fox super quickly, so it often nicks his jump, gets him if he does float side-B, and usually trades with fair (or stuffs it, or does a weird evade on it because of Fox's shortness and body contortions). Marth doesn't really have a good combo-break move that hits all around him or below him (counter is kind of fail for a variety of reasons) so moves with crouches or that hit above you are generally effective when he's coming down from or working against technically illegitimate combos.

Oh, and if you nair or bair again after the first one then yeah it can technically work but the up tilt leads to way more and way better things so just do it unless you're trying some gimpy edge jank or something really situational like that.



.

seriously, someone should analyze that up-tilt move, I totally agree with that, why didn't I think of that.

it seems uptilt is the best move for fox, it seems like it comes out in 2 frames, just GODLIKE hitboxes all around him, combo move, AND puts the other character in a bad postion.

eff re grabiing when you got up-tilt

 

[Sinji]

Your weight decreases when you charge smashes. This happens to every character. For example, if you shine marth while he is charging a fsmash he will fall from the shine.

That happened a lot of times in the past. I always wondered why.

Glad i know now,

 

[KirbyKaze]

Its variable knockbacks are really useful... the strong hit on grounded opponents has a lot of randomly great combo uses (I'm not sure if that's the rule but it seems like the opponent has to be on the ground in some way for it to do the 12% hit).

For instance... it knocks over Peach (during ASDI down - not true CC) if you strong hit it at like 20% or so. They almost never tech roll on it (ground tech rolling deliberately on reaction is actually kind of hard because it's easy to half-bake the input) so if you land a drillshine on Peach at like 10 and you know they're going to hold down to protect themselves from illegitimate follows (like, nair, d-smash, other stuff like that) you can usually just up tilt, then up tilt again (either off the ground or when she's vulnerable during her tech stand), and then follow with something like uair > bair or whatever. It's a pretty good little combo mixup.

If they don't crouch it but they DI it badly it links to uair > whatever at low percent. And if they do DI it correctly it seems to combo to nair so whatever. Even when it's bad it's good.

The fact that the soft hit only works if they're airborne is a pretty ridiculous property when you think about it because the issue with most weak or medium KB moves is usually crouch cancel or low shield stun or whatever. Crap like that. But then weak or medium strength moves are generally better for comboing so if they're airborne you'd probably want to be a medium power move or whatever. That's the trade off. But his up tilt kind of bypasses that by having the weak hit only work if the opponent can't CC or block and crap. And the strong hit only works when the opponent is probably gonna do annoying stuff like CC and whatever so yeah it can give you free knockdowns (and the trajectory that makes the tilt hit straight up is a single direction, so on characters like Falcon and Ganon you can play tricks on their DI to make them hold away and then get the good trajectory, which can be really good for starting up massive combos).

In the FFer MUs (well, in general, but this is where the following usually comes up) it's really solid when people land behind you or on top of you and non-tech or tech stand. You just do the Peach thing... up tilt if they non-tech or tech in place and then if they get grounded again or whatever just up tilt again. It's a pretty good way to start an easy-to-follow combo or tech chase in a Fox ditto.

Regrab is still really good though and grab in general usually requires less effort or creativity to make something happen than the grounded up tilt because of the low-scaling knockback and being easier to hit because of larger room for error during shine combos and stuff like that. Strong up tilt stops setting up combos vs good DI depressingly early. And obviously... you have to regrab if they're in front of you or if you have to dash. For better or worse, we cannot JC up tilt.



.

 

[Mushu]

What % does u-smash usually kill sheik on FoD/FD?

 

[EWC]

Reverse uptilt also works a lot of the time if they go in front of you. Also if you're a fuller swag baller you can probably do a a pivot uptilt; I don't think I've ever seen anyone be able to do that consistently yet but whatever.

I love foxes uptilt

 

[Mushu]

Reverse uptilt also works a lot of the time if they go in front of you. Also if you're a fuller swag baller you can probably do a a pivot uptilt; I don't think I've ever seen anyone be able to do that consistently yet but whatever.

I love foxes uptilt

I've noticed that if you waveland on the ground you can usually uptilt almost instantly and kind of throw them off, just a little trick i found.

EDIT: I didn't find the trick just found out that he can do it at pretty early percents and combo with them fairly well.

 

[Strong Badam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w03fmd9ZGg#t=02m45s

Here shroomed gets a hit with an upsmash at 76% and dies on FoD. With DI, you can survive an upsmash at 76% as doc on the top platform of FoD. However if doc charges an upsmash, as in the game, you can die much earlier. Does this happen with moves other than doc's upsmash?

weight is divided by 1.2 during smash charge.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Is there a reason?

 

[KirbyKaze]

They probably figured "Oh they're charging a poweful move they're more vulnerable".

 

[ShroudedOne]

That actually makes a lot of sense, for some reason.

 

[EWC]

It's subtle little things like that which make this game so great.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Kirbykaze posts make me SO happy. You guys don't understand.

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's because my posts are either funny, unrelentingly homosexual, or a combination of the two in smash strategy form.

 

[sanchaz]

Kirbykaze posts make me SO happy. You guys don't understand.

kirbykaze its the perfect combo of smart and funny = badass. makes me wonder why doesn't he main fox?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco and Marth.

 

[Diakonos]

I don't believe Fox is bad against those characters overall.

I quite like those matchups as Fox, actually.



[except falco]

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm horrible against Falco with Fox. I don't know what to do at all and being death comboed or trapped in bad position if he messes up his combo isn't fun.

Sheik can just nair him out of shield, WD under lasers, crouch under lasers, jump over lasers when he tries to counter my crouch and WD nonsense, and slap him. It's easier.

Marth Fox is really fun but why would I ever give up Sheik in that one?

I dunno. Sheik's more convenient.

 

[Palpi]

Isn't shine OoS better than nair oos with sheik since it is easy to punish a CC'd nair oos at low %?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nair oos ***** don't question it.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Yeah nair oos *****.

Manuel, come down to Washington. Bring Sion.

 

[Winston]

Idk anything about Sheik, but shine OOS's amazingness is limited if they tech it consistently (which is doable I think)

< 5 people in the world are able to stay grounded off the shine oos consistently, and if you leave the ground while they tech you get no advantage.

 

[Erkekjetter]

I think your estimation on people who can shine OOS grounded is way too low. I can shine OOS at like 75% consistency and i'm sure there are a ton of people out there that can.

In addition, on platform stages if you aren't grounded after the shine OOS, wavelanding on the platforms gives you pretty good position, imo. Even if they tech the shine.