Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[ballin4life]

You grab, throw them away, and then you are in a position to laser grab them again. The process repeats.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

^^^
That's kind of tricky because of the options your opponent have for tech.
I'm not saying that's bad though.
It's just that I rather to be a little more creative than that.

 

[Pink_Kirby]

@th3kuzinator Awesome guide. I read this before it got reformatted but it's so pretty now I had to read it again :D. If you happen to be a perfectionist here's some minor nitpicks:

[jumpto=test]This is a link to the Example section below[/jumpto]

• According to the Y-Maximum Falling Speed Row in ant-d's framedata [thread=100456]thread[/thread], it looks like Fox is the 2nd fastest faller. Link is #1 at 64 and Fox and Falcon tie for #2 at 60. Or ... am I reading this wrong?
• In last sentence of the Bair section you talk about Dair.
• In the teleport section there is a random [/quote] tag in the text.
• Sometime in the recent past Smashboards added the [jump..] tags so now you can have links within your post to the various sections. Quote my post to take a look at the tag syntax

[jumpname]test[/jumpname]
[size=+2]Example section[/size]
There is an anchor called "test" here so the link above can link to it.

 

[ballin4life]

Fox feels like the fastest faller because he has the fastest fall acceleration iirc. But his maximum fall speed isn't the highest.

 

[Sempiternity]

Fox is a neat character.

Dat acceleration.

If he had a normal air acceleration, his recovery would suck on par with Link or Falcon.

 

[asianaussie]

Link is the fastest faller...wtf

I sorta get that you cbf updating (I know the feeling lol), but more nitpicks (lol this really is a lot later) because I'm bored.

Shine cancels aren't mentioned at all - Jump cancelled shine breaks is incredibly misleading, especially to melee players. Mention exactly how shines are cancelled in this game and link it to the shine shield break you did mention.
Mention that shining directly after a shine cancel on the enemy's shield can catch them before their shield-grab/jump.
Mention that certain characters (not sure which) can crouch cancel the shine and punish you.
U-Tilt can lead to F-Smash or D-Smash for a quick edgeguard - it does more damage than F-Throw does. Shut up, it's legit. Pivot B-Throw is probably better though.
Random F-Tilts from D-Air, etc at low-mid percent leads to a techchase a lot of the time, especially with Fox's running speed.

 

[SheerMadness]

If you can immediately grab, is because you are close enough to jab, SH-dair, SH-uair, dtilt, etc... which could be the beginning of a combo or even leading to 0% to Death....

No you can low laser on the run when you're too far to hit them with anything else and the stun from the laser will still allow you to grab. That's how you tech chase with fox's lasers.

I don't play fox how I should. I really just go around pressuring shields with lasers and tech chasing with lasers. Which is something everyone SHOULD do, but not the only thing they do like me.

 

[The Star King]

I don't play fox how I should. I really just go around pressuring shields with lasers and tech chasing with lasers. Which is something everyone SHOULD do, but not the only thing they do like me.

I agree, you're really good with your laser shenanigans but that's the only thing that stands out to me as a strong point for your Fox. Work on your combos and stuff.

Mention that certain characters (not sure which) can crouch cancel the shine and punish you.

Can they? I bet there's too much stun to punish. Crouch canceling is way worse in 64 than in Melee because there's always a lot more stun.

 

[asianaussie]

Yeah, guess that a near-optimal shine is basically unpunishable, though if it wasn't cancelled almost immediately most characters can probably do something.

I don't play enough Fox.

 

[SheerMadness]

Yah my combos with Fox are probably pretty average. It's fine with me though, I'm not looking to be fancy with fox combos. Just lasers.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

No you can low laser on the run when you're too far to hit them with anything else and the stun from the laser will still allow you to grab. That's how you tech chase with fox's lasers.

Yeah, I know that, I use to do it.
But I said it because you said:

laser then immediately grab

Not low laser on the run, as you said later, which are two different things.

Laser -> Grab =/ Laser -> Run -> Grab

 

[Blade689]

Here's a starter question...... whats the best way to train the basic fundamentals to play fox? Do you guys mostly practice against a computer? another person? training mode? single player? Its a manor of opinion..... But I want to know what kind of combos fox players try to polish to get better, and where they train them at?

 

[th3kuzinator]

I started playing fox doing simple dtilt/utilt --> Dair --> utilt/jab --> usmash etc. combos

The zcanceling window on Fox's aerials is very percise, so learning to zcancel his dair can take some time and is best just done over and over again in TM.

After than, SHDL and shine jabs were also done with hella practice in training mode.

Learning to space came from other players though.

 

[asianaussie]

After you get the basic timing down, do different aerials with Fox, changing it up with full hop, short hop and the aerials themselves. This trains you to react to Fox hitting the ground, rather than an automaton-like sequence of SH D-Air over and over again.

Also make sure you do D-Airs and U-Airs on the computer itself to get used to the timing of the Z-cancel with and without the frame skipping.

SHDL and shine cancel jab/d-tilts seem to be an innate talent of mine, I can do them on controller without trying, but then I can't do anything else with Fox.

 

[ballin4life]

Obviously against another player is best, but if you have to play against a CPU just practice combos like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Ls1QpRRx0

Anyway, it's good to get drills down because they are useful sometimes, but DI messes them up. I'd practice these combos as well:

fair -> fair
fair -> usmash
uair -> double jump fair -> fair

get used to using weak fair vs strong fair too

(you can use bair or even nair in any of these too, and it's only slightly different - like nair hits them farther).


Shine cancels are good for getting out of shield. But you don't need to have perfect shine cancels because those are only really needed for shine jabs which are situational.

If there is a tech skill thing you should learn it would be how to low laser. SHDL is useful of course, but one of the best ways of starting a combo is to bait their approach, run backwards, low laser them and then combo based on that hitstun.

 

[SheerMadness]

You can low laser running forwards too, which is much better than backwards.

 

[HellxBound]

Could anyone please link me to a fox combo vid that's really easy. I'm trying to learn his combos, but everything I find is too creative and technically hard, I just want some boring stuff I can learn to do in game. By easy, I mean really easy, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQKNvLPQSMc

 

[ciaza]

Just play 1der lol, he combos efficiently for the most part, until he gets bored and just starts showing off. I'm not sure where to find videos though sorry.

 

[HellxBound]

I've somehow still never played him, I must've played everyone else at least once. That's a good idea though, film his fox owning. Or yours, idc if you think your fox is rubbish, it's definitely good enough for me to learn off.

 

[ciaza]

lol fair enough. Sorry I couldn't P2P I only just got your PM (was watching The Vampire Diaries like a cool kid). But yeah defs play 1der, though could be tough since he's trying to learn Marvel vs. Capcom like a nub. PM if you like, his username is Cheers.

 

[DMoogle]

Practice drills -> utilt -> over 9000 grabs -> upsmash in the tent vs. a fast faller like Fox or Falcon.

 

[ballin4life]

Take a more complicated combo and practice the easy/useful parts. So like, watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Ls1QpRRx0

but just practice the easier/more applicable stuff.


Also watch match videos of good foxes and see what they do


Here are some random easier fox combos from my youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhiX-WB-SM4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXiKDVrHer4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFj3GGrCc58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znwgzS6LSiQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j10ebJARCQU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-jUhzjUFg

 

[blaze3927]

Take a more complicated combo and practice the easy/useful parts. So like, watch this video:

quick question, when you shine jab/dtilt/ftilt etc
do you slide straight from left c, to b, then to a or is a tap involved somewhere?

 

[ballin4life]

Slide from left c to b then hit a at the right time.

What do you mean by a "tap"?

 

[HellxBound]

Thanks for the vids ballin. Np ciaza

 

[blaze3927]

Slide from left c to b then hit a at the right time.

What do you mean by a "tap"?

ahh ty

tap as in taking thumb off button, pause (however small), then going to next button.
two motions instead of one (in other words)

 

[ballin4life]

There is a little pause in between hitting b and hitting a. You have to get the timing down. The way I remember it is by remembering the sound of a shine jab and hitting b->a with that rhythm.

 

[blaze3927]

The way I remember it is by remembering the sound of a shine jab and hitting b->a with that rhythm.

zomg you have no idea how much easier that just made it. cheers.
do you use the same idea for other techniques i.e sh double laser, sh dair uair with mario etc.?

 

[ballin4life]

Yes for SHDL, no for dair uair. That's what makes dair uair so hard for me is that the timing depends on how many hits of the drill connect.

 

[HellxBound]

Who's the easiest char to practice shine jabs on? Also any tips on where and how to practice most efficiently, or just do it?

 

[th3kuzinator]

just do it over and over honestly.

Uhh I practice on samus.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

^^^ this.
There's a slightly difference between floaties and heavies, but the principle is basically the same.

 

[ballin4life]

Floaties are easiest to practice on. Heavies need to be slightly up in the air for the shine jab to work (if they are too low they can tech the shine). Samus works really well because she is super floaty.

The thing to practice first is getting perfect shine cancels. Once you can do that consistently you just learn the rhythm (I just keep the shine jab sound in my head and press the buttons in that rhythm - same for SHDL).

Note that you can practice shine jabs on no opponent, but I think the timing is ever so slightly different because there is a bit of attack stun when you actually hit with the shine.

 

[The Star King]

Samus is the easiest character to shine jab IMO, because she's floaty so that she doesn't hit the floor, and she's heavy so she doesn't fly away too fast.

Note that you can practice shine jabs on no opponent, but I think the timing is ever so slightly different because there is a bit of attack stun when you actually hit with the shine.

The timing is hugely different (or at least, it's huge to me). I remember being bad at shine jabs at first because I would press A too early (and it took me a really long time to figure out because I would mash A so a jab would still come out, but too late, and I thought I had to press it even earlier lol).

 

[Fynal]

heh finally learned to SHDL yesterday. gota press the L with the SH, one motion, not SH then mash... thats how i think of it

looked up SHDL on some random acronym site, something about India was the only listed one, so i added short hop double laser

looked up SHDL on smashwiki, which said it was pioneered in melee and carried on into barwl
5 seconds into editing i decided it wasnt worth my time.

 

[asianaussie]

let the ignorant masses continue in ignorance

the ironic thing is its use in 64 outstrips its use in melee by far

 

[HellxBound]

Heavies need to be slightly up in the air for the shine jab to work (if they are too low they can tech the shine).

Before I'd seen the replies here I was practicing on falcon, the best I got in about an hour of practice was 3 in a row. They were off flat ground and the combo meter counted them as actual combos, was the meter lying?

 

[ballin4life]

Did you see the yellow dust pop up? That would mean it is techable.

Anyway, it is possible to shine jab falcon and other heavies. They just need to be a little bit higher up to start with. For example, at really high percents (~130+) you can jab shine jab against falcon because the first jab pops him up high enough that the shine won't send him into the ground.

If you're going to use it in match shine jab isn't really useful against heavies though ... I throw it in sometimes against floaties but overall it's mostly a show off technique.

 

[The Star King]

The only time I would consider shine jab practical is when you're shining out of shield, in which case you might as well try to jab lol

Cool for showing off though

 

[th3kuzinator]

So cool for showing off ~~0~~

its somewhat practical when you want to spice up some jab chains at higher percents.