ihasabuket
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2015
- Messages
- 321
After seeing Schlimm shady in Ossom play against Ice I thought I'd check out smashboards to see how mario should hold up. After seeing outdated guides I decided to make a thread to help mario mains in this dark, fox infested era. The two main issues that need to be addressed are neutral and edgeguarding.
Neutral
Mario movement options arent half bad with his good WD, decent dash speed, and decent aerial mobility. If you use his dash in tendem with WDs you have a pretty mobile character on the ground. Platform movement and shield drops are necessary to close distance while threatening fox with shield drop punishes.
The great thing about mario is that you can do a running jump approach but still pull back to space your aerials.
Late fair is a decent approach even on shield because of it's range, reward, and mario's air mobility. Late fair is -2 on shield which isnt bad. If you misspace it you can still dash away to avoid grab, though you'll have to shield to defend against shine. Assuming youre a good player and you space your fairs and land em you cant be punished.
Nair, upair, bair are safe on hit and shield if you fade away or cross up. They lack the range fair does so you can't really space them if you try to go for a late hit. Even then these moves are easily countered at early %s by CC thats why you have to fade or crossup to avoid a punish. If you're gonna go for a late aerial you might as well go for a fair though.
Dair isn't a good approach but it's a hell of a punish/combo starter at low %s as seen here.
Mario also has some good tilts for neutral. His ftilt has similar frame data to Samus's but just a bit less range. You can use it just as samus does with WD to poke around in neutral.
Uptilt is a godlike antiair but im sure everyone knows and gets the gist of it.
Dsmash comes out a frame faster than samus's. This with mario's similar weight means you should be abusing CC dsmash just like samus. Fox's nair is CC'able until something like 60%. Once fox starts dairing to counter CC you can shieldgrab it or ASDI/SDI away to get a punish.
Fireballs can be used as a situational mixup. The safest way to use this is to do a rising SH fireball and then fade back during the animation. Shield stops are particularly useful to stop your momentum mid dash and do a fading fireball. You can also do a full hop rising fireball and land on a platform drifting away as the situation demands. Once youre on the platform you can wait since you can shield drop punish or fireball from that position. Theyre also good to preemptively stop a fox from lasering but id try to minimize using it.
Edgeguarding
This part is crucial because as you all know it's hard to setup kills with mario and you usually setup an edgeguard situation instead. Remember M2K's words "expect the side b and react to the upb. Also remember to keep track of Fox's DJ and remember that side b and upb(after startup) burn Fox's DJ.
When fox is recovering from high up he has too many mixups so your best bet is to wait and try to get a grab when he lands to setup a kill move. If they happen to up b close enough to punish throw cape directly in front of Fox. The reason for this is that the firefox moving hitbox has little disjoint making it much easier to beat out than the firefox startup hitbox. If you throw the attack right in front of him it's easier to reach, safer, and forces him to go straight up or down which in most cases will kill him. Even if he goes straight up and can drift back to stage you should be able to hit him after caping.
When fox recovers from below the ledge its much easier though. If he has his DJ you can cover side b sweetspot preemptively with fireball. You have to do this BEFORE he starts to side b as youre only covering an option, not reacting to him. If he ends up below the ledge without a DJ you dont even have to react just get down there and hit/cape him.
Sometimes he'll be in a position where you cant do much and he gets the ledge. When he's on the ledge wait him out and look for the grab.
Neutral
Mario movement options arent half bad with his good WD, decent dash speed, and decent aerial mobility. If you use his dash in tendem with WDs you have a pretty mobile character on the ground. Platform movement and shield drops are necessary to close distance while threatening fox with shield drop punishes.
The great thing about mario is that you can do a running jump approach but still pull back to space your aerials.
Late fair is a decent approach even on shield because of it's range, reward, and mario's air mobility. Late fair is -2 on shield which isnt bad. If you misspace it you can still dash away to avoid grab, though you'll have to shield to defend against shine. Assuming youre a good player and you space your fairs and land em you cant be punished.
Nair, upair, bair are safe on hit and shield if you fade away or cross up. They lack the range fair does so you can't really space them if you try to go for a late hit. Even then these moves are easily countered at early %s by CC thats why you have to fade or crossup to avoid a punish. If you're gonna go for a late aerial you might as well go for a fair though.
Dair isn't a good approach but it's a hell of a punish/combo starter at low %s as seen here.
Mario also has some good tilts for neutral. His ftilt has similar frame data to Samus's but just a bit less range. You can use it just as samus does with WD to poke around in neutral.
Uptilt is a godlike antiair but im sure everyone knows and gets the gist of it.
Dsmash comes out a frame faster than samus's. This with mario's similar weight means you should be abusing CC dsmash just like samus. Fox's nair is CC'able until something like 60%. Once fox starts dairing to counter CC you can shieldgrab it or ASDI/SDI away to get a punish.
Fireballs can be used as a situational mixup. The safest way to use this is to do a rising SH fireball and then fade back during the animation. Shield stops are particularly useful to stop your momentum mid dash and do a fading fireball. You can also do a full hop rising fireball and land on a platform drifting away as the situation demands. Once youre on the platform you can wait since you can shield drop punish or fireball from that position. Theyre also good to preemptively stop a fox from lasering but id try to minimize using it.
Edgeguarding
This part is crucial because as you all know it's hard to setup kills with mario and you usually setup an edgeguard situation instead. Remember M2K's words "expect the side b and react to the upb. Also remember to keep track of Fox's DJ and remember that side b and upb(after startup) burn Fox's DJ.
When fox is recovering from high up he has too many mixups so your best bet is to wait and try to get a grab when he lands to setup a kill move. If they happen to up b close enough to punish throw cape directly in front of Fox. The reason for this is that the firefox moving hitbox has little disjoint making it much easier to beat out than the firefox startup hitbox. If you throw the attack right in front of him it's easier to reach, safer, and forces him to go straight up or down which in most cases will kill him. Even if he goes straight up and can drift back to stage you should be able to hit him after caping.
When fox recovers from below the ledge its much easier though. If he has his DJ you can cover side b sweetspot preemptively with fireball. You have to do this BEFORE he starts to side b as youre only covering an option, not reacting to him. If he ends up below the ledge without a DJ you dont even have to react just get down there and hit/cape him.
Sometimes he'll be in a position where you cant do much and he gets the ledge. When he's on the ledge wait him out and look for the grab.
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