Fox- The killer Counter pick

[M@v]

I just thought I'd share what I have been thinking about recently, and see what you guys think. You can kind of call it a blog I guess.

Recently, I have started playing Falco A LOT, and have been liking him a lot. I also realized how he is much better than fox overall. But I also realized that in the areas fox is better than Falco, he is WAY better. Some examples are combos, recovery, and the two characters Fairs. Falco's fair is his worst aerial; fox's is amazing.

Then I thought about fox's match ups and realized something. Now we all know Fox get ***** hard in quite a few match ups right? Sheik, Pika, ZSS you know them, we have discussed them in the match up thread. The number of bad match ups fox has makes him very risky for tournaments, as one of those impossible match ups could be your ticket out of the tourney.

But, at the same time, look at some of fox's GOOD match ups. He goes even with snake, DDD, and R.O.B, 3 of the game's elites. He beats Diddy, goes even with wolf, and goes near even with pit. And he is argued to be in the better half of MK fighters(definitely NOT the best, but I would say in the top 50% of the cast). A lot of those characters are tourney frequents.

That got me thinking. I think Fox , as a main character, is right were he should be on the tier list; mediocre. However, I think fox's true potential is unlocked when you use him as a counter pick character in tourneys. Fox shines in the match ups he is even-advantaged in. Counter picking Fox could really cause some problems for your opponents. Most people don't have too much experience vs fox in tourneys, because he isn't very popular. So you have a slight element of surprise to begin with. Then throw in that we know how to play all of fox's matches there, and boom, you got yourself a win.

Using him as a CP character eliminates his main problem too; his not-even-fair match ups. You do not have to run the risk of being stuck against a pikachu, or a Zelda/sheik.

In short, I think the future of fox's tournament success lies in him being a "killer counter pick"; a character that has huge strengths and huge weaknesses. Being a counter pick character takes away the huge weaknesses.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I haven't read it all but I have to mention, that Falco has a much better combo game than Fox has.
Fox entire combo game is based on his Dair but if the opponent isn't dumb as hell and just DI, your combo options are limited. The only thing you have left are some utilt chains at low % but there are wuite a few characters, who can do that too.

Falco's Chaingrab (which is techincally a combo) alone surpasses anything Fox has and there's still lots of other stuff in Falcos combo game: Dthrow comboes pretty much into everything and a FF Dair on an aerial opponent can be followed up with lots of other stuff too. This is just the stuff from the top of my head.

I don't know if I'll comment on the rest. Fox board seems to have a personal grudge against everyone, who doesn't agree with the match-up's or who has doubts in Fox figthing abilities...

 

[§witch]

Yeah, he has some good/decent match-ups, but there's always a better choice for a CP, doesn't mean I won't use him, but i just thought I'd point that out.

 

[Zhamy]

That got me thinking. I think Fox , as a main character, is right were he should be on the tier list; mediocre. However, I think fox's true potential is unlocked when you use him as a counter pick character in tourneys.

Wait, I thought everyone used him as a CP?

I haven't read it all

...

but there's always a better choice for a CP,

True, but then you don't have to learn 4 characters. Fox does reasonably well against all his CPs, meaning you only have to learn one.

 

[M@v]

I haven't read it all but I have to mention, that Falco has a much better combo game than Fox has.
Fox entire combo game is based on his Dair but if the opponent isn't dumb as hell and just DI, your combo options are limited. The only thing you have left are some utilt chains at low % but there are wuite a few characters, who can do that too.

Wrong Gheb. Dair is NOT fox's whole combo game. Its a myth, and that is the thing I have been preaching for ages. Dair, Nair, fair, dash attack, dthrow can all lead into other attacks. Some have told me bair can too, but I never tryed it, so I don't know. Nair is probably better than Dair anyway because it auto cancels and has much higher priority, so its a LOT safer.

Falco's Chaingrab (which is techincally a combo) alone surpasses anything Fox has and there's still lots of other stuff in Falcos combo game: Dthrow comboes pretty much into everything and a FF Dair on an aerial opponent can be followed up with lots of other stuff too. This is just the stuff from the top of my head.

Not saying falco didnt have combos. Fox just has more that can deal more damage. I was not including the chaingrab here, because I dont consider that a combo; I consider it a chaingrab as in its own category.

I don't know if I'll comment on the rest. Fox board seems to have a personal grudge against everyone, who doesn't agree with the match-up's or who has doubts in Fox figthing abilities...

No, we just hate when people like you come in here, talk ****, and even though they haven't practiced with the character(or characters in the matchup) for months on end, they think they know everything about him or her. I think we know our own character thanks. Last time I checked, you don't play Falco either. Your a snake player, right?

I haven't read it all

And there it is again. So you know it even though you didnt read it right?

 

[mcw00ty]

It's almost always better to learn a character 100% then to try to learn multiple characters... But then I just realized that Smash uses dumb character picking rules and you can counter-pick a counter pick...

Even if everyone hates the All-Brawl rule set, at least they have the character and stage picking right... That is, double blind to start, winner MUST keep character, the loser can switch either character or stage. That makes you learn the ins and outs of your main a lot more. I personally think that style should be adopted for "normal" brawl rules. But that's not the point of this thread...

Fox can overcome all of his bad match ups. But that's not to say that playing multiple characters is bad, just unnecessary.

 

[Zhamy]

Some have told me bair can too, but I never tryed it, so I don't know.

At loooow percents, but it's very situational. The best I've done is a crossup FF Bair-> jab->grab->Dthrow->RAR Bair->Shinespike.

Oh ****, that was a good match.

 

[KoSa!]

I hate when people make a thread about the potential of a character. We all know it, everyone who uses him knows it, why cant we play the game and learn actually techs that help in game. I tried of coming in a game with the proper mindset, they serve no purpose. LOL done with my mini rant. To add to the topic, I believe Fox's isnt good as a main character, but is good as a secondary. I personally use DK,Fox, and ICeys. Dk is my main and is used in 60% of my matches. Then Iceys is used for about 25%. And the small left over is what Fox plays. The only time I bring Fox out is when I fight a GW, DDD, Diddy, or any other bad match up DK/ICeys have.

 

[Ussi]

Ah but what if someone CPs your fox in the 3rd match with Pika/Shiek/ZSS

 

[M@v]

Ah but what if someone CPs your fox in the 3rd match with Pika/Shiek/ZSS

In the 3rd match, you dont have to stay as your character at most tourneys...you just have to pick your character 1st...

 

[KoSa!]

Ah but what if someone CPs your fox in the 3rd match with Pika/Shiek/ZSS

1st pick is like random so there are no cp's
2nd pick -if you won they would give him the cp
\
or if you lost you would get the cp
3rd match is the same thing

 

[-Mars-]

Weak hit nair to running usmash is a combo, I don't think a lot of people know this.............it's one of the best ways to land his lethal kill move.

I personally have Fox as a secondary, so I can't comment on this thread too much. I will say though that I think Fox is an excellent choice for a main; he does decent against all of the higher characters besides Pika and your not going to run into a ZSS or Sheik too often.

This Gheb guy is almost becoming a regular around here. Dair is not hard to land and it's very hard to smash DI so Foxs' combo game being based around his dair is not really a bad thing. Dair comes out so fast sometimes it doesn't matter if it has no priority or if they know it's coming.

 

[Storm_Fox]

Running upsmash is slightly weaker than a still upsmash but only by a few damage.

 

[Zhamy]

This Gheb guy is almost becoming a regular troll around here.

wuuuut?

Running upsmash is slightly weaker than a still upsmash but only by a few damage.

Wait, what?

 

[tom2bomb]

Running upsmash is slightly weaker than a still upsmash but only by a few damage.