Fox's Smash 4 Moveset/Meta Thread

[G-Sword]

I don't think Mac is a hard MU from what I have played.

i feel the same way. i think i lost to one or two lil mac's but i felt like if we were playing on the wii u i would easily beat them.

 

[Dr. Snakes]

If you manage to get in all of Firefox's hits, you get 28% for your troubles. Also, I could kill Mario with it on FD at right around 150%.

My main issues are that it just screams "PUNISH ME!" if you miss it, and the first hitbox doesn't appear until about a half-second after you initiate the move. I also haven't tested it on anybody besides Mario, so characters like Megaman and Diddy who can escape hitstun could probably get out of it, and lighter characters may be able to DI/VI out of the hits. I think it'd still have potential as a hard punish, and the lasting hitboxes could make it a decent way to punish rolls.

I guess you could just consider it your Fun Fox Fact of the day.

 

[Gunslinger]

If you manage to get in all of Firefox's hits, you get 28% for your troubles. Also, I could kill Mario with it on FD at right around 150%.

My main issues are that it just screams "PUNISH ME!" if you miss it, and the first hitbox doesn't appear until about a half-second after you initiate the move. I also haven't tested it on anybody besides Mario, so characters like Megaman and Diddy who can escape hitstun could probably get out of it, and lighter characters may be able to DI/VI out of the hits. I think it'd still have potential as a hard punish, and the lasting hitboxes could make it a decent way to punish rolls.

I guess you could just consider it your Fun Fox Fact of the day.

There is a much more viable and legit move of Fox's that has a better kill potential, it's the "Twisting Fox" custom up-B move. It's able to kill around 120% (especially if you carry your opponent to the sky with it) and is a great OOS option. However, it has a worse recovery, but since Fox has such a good recovery with being able to act out of illusion, I'd much rather have the earlier kill.

 

[Dr. Snakes]

I still haven't gotten around to messing with customs yet. Everyone is still on the fence about them being legal in tourneys/only being side-event tourneys only.

Though I personally find customs all fun and legit, judging from Ninjalink's videos. While I'd love for them to be declared as the legal standard, I'm trying to make the most mileage out of Default. That Wolf Illusion and Smash 64 Blaster, tho.

 

[Gunslinger]

I still haven't gotten around to messing with customs yet. Everyone is still on the fence about them being legal in tourneys/only being side-event tourneys only.

Though I personally find customs all fun and legit, judging from Ninjalink's videos. While I'd love for them to be declared as the legal standard, I'm trying to make the most mileage out of Default. That Wolf Illusion and Smash 64 Blaster, tho.

Totally understandable, I love the default moveset, and it's generally my go-to unless a different laser is more effective in the matchup or I'm having trouble killing. I hope the community leans more towards making them legal, the two Smash 3DS tourney's I went to had them legal, although I think I was one of three people actually using custom moves. Yeah, the Wolf Illusion, Impact Blaster, and the Twisting Fox are my favorite custom moves on Fox.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Totally understandable, I love the default moveset, and it's generally my go-to unless a different laser is more effective in the matchup or I'm having trouble killing. I hope the community leans more towards making them legal, the two Smash 3DS tourney's I went to had them legal, although I think I was one of three people actually using custom moves. Yeah, the Wolf Illusion, Impact Blaster, and the Twisting Fox are my favorite custom moves on Fox.

The Wolf customs are all good. It's just a shame that Wolf's amazing reflector wasn't one of them, as that was my favorite part of the character and was way better than any option Fox has on that move.

 

[Gunslinger]

Yeah, the Wolf customs are my favorite too aside from the reflector. The Amplifying Reflector is literally useless, it's slow and has no shine stall.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So, a Fox player named Sodrek got 3rd/256 at a german online tourney today and another one named wusi took 5th [I didn't enter]. Megafox got 3rd in a texas local, Nakat is doing well with him and once TKD and Zero start attending tourneys people will start to see that this character is high, if not top tier once again!

 

[G-Sword]

So, a Fox player named Sodrek got 3rd/256 at a german online tourney today and another one named wusi took 5th [I didn't enter]. Megafox got 3rd in a texas local, Nakat is doing well with him and once TKD and Zero start attending tourneys people will start to see that this character is high, if not top tier once again!

once its on the wii u its a wrap

 

[Shaya]

For interest, what's fox' neutral game anyway?
A bit of lasers still, obviously, just a baitey/outspacing game with using mobility to rush down on reaction ?
Does Fox shield pressure at close range well? If it's anything like Falco where dtilt, jab1-2 and ftilt seem to shield trap (all of those fox instances seem to be ever so slightly worse than Falcos, so it should be similar). Can he be aggressive ? (i.e. also can space/shield trap with aerials?).

Other than what seems to be an amazing jab for combos, and obviously the extra mobility quirks (which obviously is very important) haven't seen where he shines or excels. I'm assuming shine cancels are still in this game (reflecting anything = any oos action?).

 

[Shaya]

Double post (I know).

But I was doing some relevant checking (Fox had the fastest [or second] dash to shield animation in Brawl, wanted to compare it to now), and I accidentally rolled while trying to dash to shield in both directions, and I didn't spot any frame data of any sort yet, so I don't mind frame counting for something I had already recorded.

Fox' backwards and forward rolls are 4-17/26. This is an above average roll speed from what I've seen.

And his dash to shield is 14 frames. Meaning that the "animation" itself is 12 frames, you could start forward smashing on the 13th.

In comparison to others I've seen, Mac's is 15 while Marth's is 16. I wonder if 12 frames is the shortest this game. If it is, that's quite something (shortens the gap between how disgusting it was when Marth's was 16 in Brawl and Sheik/Fox was like 7).

 

[NAKAT]

I'll post in depth later.

 

[RPK]

Also one of the biggest changes in this game that benefits Fox is how quickly you can act from a dropped shield. Before there was an animation for dropping a shield, but now the ability to react from it is quite literally instantaneous. Which of course only means Dash Up Smash OOS :3

 

[Dr. Snakes]

So a few things I discovered about our UpB:

The first hit comes out fast enough to punish pretty well. On big and laggy character like Bowser and Ganon, I abuse the crap out of it. Once you get some practice in, it's easier to land than Yoshi's DAir. I tended to use it less on faster characters, either as a mixup option or when I knew that it was guaranteed to hit (example, a Pit whiffing SideB).

It gives amazing Shield Pressure. I've broken 2 shields so far with it, and it leaves a healthy shield at ~20% healthy if all the hits connect.

I've also found out a good way to mix it in to your gameplay. Jab Jab UpB works pretty well, and if you hit them with the first Jab at close enough range, you can get in all of UpB's hits. This also works well against people who know that Fox's Jab Combo is easy to escape. Condition them a bit by finishing the jab combo, and if you notice that they start to shield towards the end, that's how you'll know to start going for Jab Jab UpB.

Aerial UpB is probably the best way to use it if you're going for a punish. Using Grounded UpB, I accidentally shot off the stage quite a few times and SD'd, since my back was to the ledge and I was just out of range to snap to it. With aerial UpB, if your hits are connecting, you can aim straight downward to bounce up, and the knockback from the final hit will keep you safe. If there is no connect, Firefox goes a good distance away now; take advantage of that and create some space between you and your opponent.

Finally, be careful with the direction you aim yourself. I just said this before, but Firefox has had a buff in range and duration. If you don't take that into account, you WILL shoot yourself off-stage at times. Stage position is very important when going for an UpB. If you're using this in the middle of the stage, do NOT aim yourself straight to the left or right. You will tumble to your death and slap yourself for being stupid. As with all things, practice makes perfect.

I think it's very important that Fox main's somehow work move into their on-stage gameplay. I know that it's obviously risky and all, but this is our possibly most powerful attack. Plus, who doesn't like a free 28%?

 

[Shaya]

Also one of the biggest changes in this game that benefits Fox is how quickly you can act from a dropped shield. Before there was an animation for dropping a shield, but now the ability to react from it is quite literally instantaneous. Which of course only means Dash Up Smash OOS :3

Shield drops animations are the same length as in Brawl

 

[RPK]

Shield drops animations are the same length as in Brawl

Good to know. It just feels like the shield drop animation was pretty much gone, or that you can act during it to cancel it, while in brawl, you would have to wait for the animation to finish before youre able to act. I thought that was the case since some Falco mains did the B-Dacus during their shield drop animation. I noticed it while practicing options from shield and I accidentally F-smashed from a shield drop which wasn't my intention, but it came out pretty fast. So I honestly want to say that shield drops are actually different in this version.

On another note regarding shields, because I remember that in brawl there was a difference in how fast you're able to act OOS when doing a shield drop as opposed to power shielding. Is that difference still there? In Brawl, if you powershielded, I believe it was a frame or two that you're able to act, but from a normal shield drop it was obviously a lot slower which was the advantage to powershielding as opposed to normal shielding. Since you're a broomer, is there an advantage to powershielding right now other than not being pushed back that far, receiving less hitstun, and having none of your shield drained?

 

[Shaya]

The amount of time after your shield drops before you can act is 7 frames in both Brawl and Smash 4.
Power shields allows you to negate that 7 frame shield drop and the shield push back, nothing else.

 

[RPK]

The amount of time after your shield drops before you can act is 7 frames in both Brawl and Smash 4.
Power shields allows you to negate that 7 frame shield drop and the shield push back, nothing else.

Thank you for the confirmation. I'm also pretty terrible when it comes to counting frames. I don't know the trick behind it D:

 

[Shaya]

I have a capture device on the 3DS (as well as for normal console things), I record actions at 60 frames per second and then sit there looking/counting frames in photoshop (which is probably super overkill for that purpose, I just don't know of any light weight program that covers this frame by frame thing easily).

 

[Conviction]

So, has anyone tried running and pivot Ftilt/Fsmashing someone's shield? The former is super safe and you continue to slide if you charge the Fsmash

 

[RPK]

@ Shaya

Hey, since you can do frame data, do you know what the frame data is for Fox's tilts, jabs, and smash attacks? I've been wanting to look into them, but I have no idea where to really go to find it.

 

[Mr.Random]

Anyone know if 1.03 changed anything?

 

[DavemanCozy]

So, has anyone tried running and pivot Ftilt/Fsmashing someone's shield? The former is super safe and you continue to slide if you charge the Fsmash

I have done both. Fsmash does a nice amount of shield knockback. Relatively unsafe though, needs to be used carefully

I like Ftilt more though. The small hitbox on the back of Fox in the start of the move is nice, I think I've seen Nakat use it before: since you slide quite far, it can be used situationally as a sliding hit, also links with uptilt.

 

[jr22]

Yo guys. I found this blog on nintendodojo made by someone who goes by the name wusi

utilt combos into utilt starting at 22%
ftilt has differing starting knockback depending on its angle
up-angled 53%
neutral 70%
down-angled 61%
probably depending on vector, ^ftilt -> dash attack works at 60%
DTILT=USEFUL
tippered dtilt -> uair is a true combo in kill percentages
tipper dtilt combos into itself at some percentages (maybe useful lol)

THE MOST IMPRACTICAL (and techable) COMBO EVER

landing strong nair -> dash weak nair lock -> charged smash attack
landing strong nair -> dash weak nair lock -> tipper dtilt -> uair
landing strong nair -> dash weak nair lock -> running pivot vftilt -> dash usmash (this is actually a true combo)

 

[DavemanCozy]

Yo guys. I found this blog on nintendodojo made by someone who goes by the name wusi

Provide a link?

utilt combos into utilt starting at 22%

This sounds about right against the entire cast, but is also character dependent: You can also start U-tilt chains on floaties like Jigglypuff and Peach at 0%, and on the other hand they can also start escaping U-tilt traps at ~25%. Seems obvious, I know, but this should be mentioned in case someone reading this doesn't find it obvious.

ftilt has differing starting knockback depending on its angle
up-angled 53%
neutral 70%
down-angled 61%
probably depending on vector, ^ftilt -> dash attack works at 60

I didn't know about the knock-backs with the percentages, I just tested it in training with a 60% Mario. Differences are small, but noticeable.

That ^ftilt -> dash attack string worked on the Mario up to 70% too, btw, ended up hitting with the weaker part of dash attack though (Mario CPU air-dodged, avoided the hard hit, but landed with lag and got hit with the weaker hit). Could be useful for the weak dash attack combos if your opponent likes to air-dodge a lot (another U-tilt, or follow up with SH U-air / B-air).

DTILT=USEFUL
tippered dtilt -> uair is a true combo in kill percentages
tipper dtilt combos into itself at some percentages (maybe useful lol)

Lol, I tried this too. The tipper dtilt comboing into itself is only true at low percentages, worked on Mario up to 25% (CPU started vectoring away afterwards, making following up with something else like F-air or Dash Attack better)

Thanks for sharing!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yo guys. I found this blog on nintendodojo made by someone who goes by the name wusi

utilt combos into utilt starting at 22%
ftilt has differing starting knockback depending on its angle
up-angled 53%
neutral 70%
down-angled 61%
probably depending on vector, ^ftilt -> dash attack works at 60%
DTILT=USEFUL
tippered dtilt -> uair is a true combo in kill percentages
tipper dtilt combos into itself at some percentages (maybe useful lol)

THE MOST IMPRACTICAL (and techable) COMBO EVER

landing strong nair -> dash weak nair lock -> charged smash attack
landing strong nair -> dash weak nair lock -> tipper dtilt -> uair
landing strong nair -> dash weak nair lock -> running pivot vftilt -> dash usmash (this is actually a true combo)

Wusi is a friend of mine from germany. If you need to know anything from him I can ask him.

I can confirm though that all the info is accurate.

 

[jr22]

@ DavemanCozy : Here's the link http://nintendodojo.com/blogpost.aspx?id=157832

 

[Shaya]

Yeah playing Falco recently I just realised that upwards angled forward tilt has a lot less knockback than the other tilts, and seems to combo into itself early/into many things. It also reliably jab locks early too~

Dash attack -> ^ftilt -> ^ftilt-> up tilt aerials or a smash attack

Easy 50-60% (at least on Falco).

 

[Wusi]

oh, I only tested those percentages on Shiek, that's what the blog title says.
glad I could be of help somehow, though. also I haven't noticed a difference in patch 1.04 so far, fox still does the same amount of percentage on every move of his (I tested) and knockback for everything seems about the same.

 

[Shon McCloud]

Fox Changes are. Hitboxes, better foxcopter, Incredi-fast Bair and rage mechanic being cut that means better KB at 0%. ( I guess horizontal air movement is better too. but I might be wrong)

 

[Xmark]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but and we talk about Fox's pseudo pivot Usmash, idk if it was in melee but it's in brawl and it seems to be back in smash 4. For anybody who doesn't know what this is or looks like, it's pretty much Fox being able to to a Usmash in the opposite direction of which he is running. The first time I saw it was in this video years ago(skip to 1:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqpjugae1Rs&list=PL725696C2C439513D&index=11 I'm sure the slope carried his momentum but I was wondering if this would be of any use. To do this, you should have tap jump off first. Dash and then while running, quickly rotate your circle pad/ thumb stick diagonally up and way(about a 45 degree angle) of your current position while pressing your just and attack button at virtually the same time. Lastly, I believe you have to wait for the slight animation where you are turning around. I'll try to make a video of me doing it.

 

[Zelkam]

So I was playing against CPU's the other day and I discovered something on accident that I found really interesting. You can spike you opponent with Fair if it clashes with their attack. It's so simple, I can't believe I didn't think of it until I saw it. I wasn't sure if anyone here had discovered the same thing, but I didn't see any talk about it so I figured I would make a post.

Here's the video that shows what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6micMHTMlGo#t=134

 

[Mindles]

jab jab combo 4 ever

 

[M@v]

And the award for most buffed fox move from Brawl goes to Dtilt. Shoutout to our runner up Jab as well.

 

[RPK]

When are some good opportunities to use Dtilt and Ftilt? I've been trying to incorporate them into my gameplay, but I find that I end up relying on the same few moves over and over again. Also the different properties of them as well at different percents.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And the award for most buffed fox move from Brawl goes to Dtilt. Shoutout to our runner up Jab as well.

Fsmash has been improved a lot more than dtilt. Since shield grab range is garbage in this game and other OoS options can't be buffered it's a lot safer on block than you'd think.

 

[jr22]

Sup guys

Apparently if Mega man z-drops his metal blade onto a reflector which sent it back up at you at a very slow speed. It then started falling back down before it passed through you. The result is Mega Man getting hit several times for 5 per hit. Looks like the blue bomber won't be z dropping blades against us.

 

[EndlessRain]

Reflecting Mega Man's dair while offstage and having it kill him is probably the best feeling in the world.

 

[elmike]

So I was playing against CPU's the other day and I discovered something on accident that I found really interesting. You can spike you opponent with Fair if it clashes with their attack. It's so simple, I can't believe I didn't think of it until I saw it. I wasn't sure if anyone here had discovered the same thing, but I didn't see any talk about it so I figured I would make a post.

Here's the video that shows what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6micMHTMlGo#t=134

does it applies with any timing and versus any attack?

 

[CamZilla94]

I'm really loving Fox's aerial kicks like the spinning one in this game.