G&W Competitive Discussion (Casual Gametype discussion welcome)

[NouveauRétro]

I think GnW is actually good on gor glory 1v1 you can kill with all his smash attacks if you read them right i feel his Fair is like sheiks Fair good for knocking of a map if you hig right hes good at edge gaurding

G&W's fair is hot garbage compared to Shiek's. But then again most Fairs are.

 

[Kofu]

G&W's fair is hot garbage compared to Shiek's. But then again most Fairs are.

His FAir does more damage and lingers, which makes it a bit different.

New DTilt is much better at setting up edgeguards.

 

[Routa]

So... G&W in doubles... I hear people saying that G&W + bucket filler combo should be banned in doubles. What are your thoughts guys?

 

[Kofu]

So... G&W in doubles... I hear people saying that G&W + bucket filler combo should be banned in doubles. What are your thoughts guys?

Nah. It's very strong but doubles in this game has so much room for jank that bucket basically fits right in. I'd sooner make alterations to the format than ban a character.

 

[Shaya]

I remember when Pikachu + G&W was causing drama/hype.
One of the "possible solutions" was banning G&W's default bucket for the 'faster/weaker' one.
It would be an interesting compromise and precedent and would work 'better' in a scene that otherwise didn't have customs legal.

 

[Kofu]

I remember when Pikachu + G&W was causing drama/hype.
One of the "possible solutions" was banning G&W's default bucket for the 'faster/weaker' one.
It would be an interesting compromise and precedent and would work 'better' in a scene that otherwise didn't have customs legal.

Efficient Panic kind of blows as far as power goes. Panic Overload would be more interesting: an absolutely massive attack but one with a lower damage cap than default and with ridiculous endlag to it.

 

[meleebrawler]

Efficient Panic kind of blows as far as power goes. Panic Overload would be more interesting: an absolutely massive attack but one with a lower damage cap than default and with ridiculous endlag to it.

And also requires unneeded precision, not just when absorbing but also avoiding the dead zone right in front of G&W when unleashing.

Efficient Panic isn't ideal, but sometimes it just really is your best option if you don't want to get punished for every little
projectile you pick up.

 

[Kofu]

And also requires unneeded precision, not just when absorbing but also avoiding the dead zone right in front of G&W when unleashing.

Efficient Panic isn't ideal, but sometimes it just really is your best option if you don't want to get punished for every little
projectile you pick up.

Efficient Panic has its place for sure, but doubles probably isn't it. I could be wrong though.

Panic Overload actually has the worst BKB and KBG of the three variants, though it can be stronger than Efficient Panic by virtue of damage.

 

[Masonomace]

Hello G&W boards. I'm not sure where to post this exactly but I think it'll be fine here, right?. .So anyways, I recently typed a lengthy post in regards to Monado Shield for the Shulk board's move-set analysis thread. Basically I came to an interesting discovery about Mr. Game & Watch's Judge 8. Have some numbers:

Mr. Game & Watch using Judge 8. Judge 8 deals ~9%.
Vanilla Shulk starts getting frozen at 0%. When crouching, freezing starts at 0%.
Shield Shulk starts getting frozen at 0%. When crouching, Shield Shulk cannot be frozen by Judge 8, not even at 999%!
Decisive Shield Shulk & Hyper Shield Shulk crouching or standing cannot become frozen by Judge 8, not even at 999%!

 

[TheMiSP]

Hello G&W boards. I'm not sure where to post this exactly but I think it'll be fine here, right?. .So anyways, I recently typed a lengthy post in regards to Monado Shield for the Shulk board's move-set analysis thread. Basically I came to an interesting discovery about Mr. Game & Watch's Judge 8. Have some numbers:

Mr. Game & Watch using Judge 8. Judge 8 deals ~9%.
Vanilla Shulk starts getting frozen at 0%. When crouching, freezing starts at 0%.
Shield Shulk starts getting frozen at 0%. When crouching, Shield Shulk cannot be frozen by Judge 8, not even at 999%!
Decisive Shield Shulk & Hyper Shield Shulk crouching or standing cannot become frozen by Judge 8, not even at 999%!

Sounds very situational. Now I know not to use Vanilla Judge on shield Shulk, in addition to running away/stalling for ~10 sec.

 

[NotAsian]

This is hilarious haha I love when people find funny stuff in this game!

 

[Folie]

Hello G&W boards. I'm not sure where to post this exactly but I think it'll be fine here, right?. .So anyways, I recently typed a lengthy post in regards to Monado Shield for the Shulk board's move-set analysis thread. Basically I came to an interesting discovery about Mr. Game & Watch's Judge 8. Have some numbers:

Mr. Game & Watch using Judge 8. Judge 8 deals ~9%.
Vanilla Shulk starts getting frozen at 0%. When crouching, freezing starts at 0%.
Shield Shulk starts getting frozen at 0%. When crouching, Shield Shulk cannot be frozen by Judge 8, not even at 999%!
Decisive Shield Shulk & Hyper Shield Shulk crouching or standing cannot become frozen by Judge 8, not even at 999%!

this is crucial MU info thank you for posting
god speed your noble soul

 

[Masonomace]

this is crucial MU info thank you for posting
god speed your noble soul

The only thing I didn't test is whether Rage effect changes the outcome at all. I can check that out today for Judge 8 and give the news.

EDIT: Rage does not change the result. Shield Shulk crouching at 300% while Mr. Game & Watch using Judge 8 at 300% still didn't freeze. Interesting.

 

[NotAsian]

What does he do just sit there and take the damage? Does he flinch at all

 

[Mr.PersonSir]

I think this is the right thread to ask so I'm gonna ask. What are the best stages for G&W to go to using the anthers ladder stage list

 

[SeanS]

unrelated- At this point, since you seem serious about learning this character, I suggest you join the G&W Skype group if you haven't already.

related- This can sometimes vary by the character, but for the most part, you want to prioritize stage picks in the following way:

Battlefield >>> Dreamland >>>>>>>>>>>>> FD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> T&C >>>>>>>> Smashville

For counterpicks, immediately ban Halberd and Delfino if legal; if not, ban Smashville.

The rationale behind all of this is that G&W wants to both take advantage of the speed and platform camping abilities that platforms will give him while ensuring that he can consistently edgeguard his opponent. i.e., Battlefield is the most desirable because it is the best for speed, platform camping, and edgeguarding; conversely, Smashville prevents edgeguards and doesn't really accentuate anything good about G&W.

 

[Mr.PersonSir]

unrelated- At this point, since you seem serious about learning this character, I suggest you join the G&W Skype group if you haven't already.

related- This can sometimes vary by the character, but for the most part, you want to prioritize stage picks in the following way:

Battlefield >>> Dreamland >>>>>>>>>>>>> FD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> T&C >>>>>>>> Smashville

For counterpicks, immediately ban Halberd and Delfino if legal; if not, ban Smashville.

The rationale behind all of this is that G&W wants to both take advantage of the speed and platform camping abilities that platforms will give him while ensuring that he can consistently edgeguard his opponent. i.e., Battlefield is the most desirable because it is the best for speed, platform camping, and edgeguarding; conversely, Smashville prevents edgeguards and doesn't really accentuate anything good about G&W.

Thanks for the information!

 

[Ruuku]

Hey there folks. I used to play G&W in Brawl and I've just started playing Smash 4 and pick this guy up again. I've already looked the forums a bit but anything new I should know?

 

[SeanS]

Hey there folks. I used to play G&W in Brawl and I've just started playing Smash 4 and pick this guy up again. I've already looked the forums a bit but anything new I should know?

Do not expect him to play like brawl G&W at all. That's pretty much all you need to know going in.

Your training should be the same as a beginner: dash attack, up smash, dthrow > nair, jab. The rest is in the details.

If you are serious about getting better with him, and / or have a lot of questions about G&W, join the skype group. We are very active and talk endlessly about theory, what to do and what not to do, etc.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Hey, Gamers & Watchers alike! The boards are officially discussing the 2D Master and would really appreciate your input! It's definitely a wacky MU. See you there!


http://smashboards.com/threads/read...on-currently-discussing-mr-g-w.395045/page-14

 

[NotAsian]

Does anyone know when the game allows you to jab grab? There's soo many times I want to jab grab and it only let's me auto jab it's very frustrating sometimes

 

[Kofu]

Does anyone know when the game allows you to jab grab? There's soo many times I want to jab grab and it only let's me auto jab it's very frustrating sometimes

It's just a timing issue. You have to know the right delay between jabbing and then going in for the grab.

Though I don't think jab to grab is a true combo most of the time since it doesn't scale with damage (might become confirmed at high rage though). It partially depends on the target's weight/gravity as well as their fastest offensive option.

 

[NotAsian]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who got destroyed by acestarthe3rd on for glory soo hard not to be nervous playing him, he played Lucas and spammed pk fire like crazy, I only beat him once out of 6 games he switched to Zelda probly to disrespect me then 2 stocked my olimar with Samus. I almost had an upair gimp on Lucas when he was recovering but noooo I was a hair too late

 

[pepi1197]

Should have some solid VOD opportunities with Regi heading to Genesis 3 on Friday. I haven't seen his G&W since EVO so hopefully a deep run produces some good material.

 

[pepi1197]

Holy hell. Don't know if anyone else is watching the crew battles at G3, but Regi just lit up ESAM and Ryo back to back. Best G&W play I've ever seen.

Edit: Brief clip of him getting in ESAM's head.

http://oddshot.tv/shot/showdowngg-2016011645244106

 

[NotAsian]

I missed him play dangit what's with the oddshot it's all laggy

 

[HoSmash4]

What are G&W's bread and butter combos/frametraps on Sheik?

 

[n3n]

What are G&W's bread and butter combos/frametraps on Sheik?

Spoiler: Dthrow

Dthrow>Bucket. Remember you can bucket vanish through the stage!
Dthrow>Footstool>dair>dash attack from 0-15% since utilt wont connect
Dthrow>Utilt>Nair or Uair>Fire
Dthrow>Uair works around 90-105%
Dthrow>Fire if you dont kill em with uair.

Spoiler: Usmash

Usmash>nair works until around 20%
Usmash>Fire works until like 55%, just gotta jump at later percents
Usmash>judge at 0-2% is a thing

Jab>Grab i don't think is guaranteed but works on people anyway
Falling uair>grab and Falling uair>aerial are true at mid and high percents
FF Fair>Dash attack

I heard something about uthrow combos but i can never get them to work...

 

[Folie]

low % go-to for sheik (and greninja/fox) is uthrow to up b and then usually to fair depending on DI/%. The dthrow footstool combos aren't actually true and can be DI'd out of with simple combo DI and if you DO get it, the dash attack followup after dair isn't true either. Footstool dair combos can work as lowmid % airdodge reads after dthrow, but they're hard to get. After 10-15% is when you go for basic d-throw combos
any falling aerial on sheik that isn't bair (and even bair) is sketchy against sheik, unless you're 100% sure you're going to hit them with it
sheik is one of the characters jab to grab is most sketchy on, sheik can power shield initial jab and punish before rapid jab comes out p easily, and if you do get the jab, they can escape the grab due to being a fast faller

 

[Shuckle604]

^title.

Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atMQtxGQruE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3IbNd7z7LE

Quick things I saw:
F-air has a lot less landing lag.
DA has less commitment and sends people forward with greater knockback
D-tilt MIGHT be nerfed in terms of active frames
Smashes are still safe on block
U-tilt still has really small hitbox making it useless for hitting grounded opponents
F-smash actually seems to require spacing to sweetspot
Recovery is still amazing
Universal Rapid Jab buff where you get a final hit that knocks people back

Overall G&W didn't change too much from what I've seen, outside of his F-air becoming better which is actually a pretty significant buff. Any other thoughts?

Game and watch can drag other characters off stage with his nair....if that's any help

 

[Shuckle604]

I found some cool things you can do with game and watch if anyone is still here?

 

[steuben]

I found some cool things you can do with game and watch if anyone is still here?

we're all mainly in skype and discord, but you should make a new thread and post it here anyway because information gets buried very quickly on those platforms.

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

How do you escape from Mr. Game & Watch's hoo-hah (throw kill confirm)? He seems to get the Uair from the grab as a true confirm even if I DI away.

 

[n3n]

So I heard somewhere that apparently g&w can do nair>grab>nair>grab?

Anyone got a video or something of this? And does it work on everyone?