Gah, Sheik!

[Blade1844]

I'm sure its been asked, but how do I fight sheik?

East, the sheik I play often, pretty much destroys the advantages I have.

1. The needles wreck my spacing.
2. I can't find a way to approach.
3. I seem to get ftilt locked way too often.
4. My armor pieces end up doing more harm to me then her.

How do I go about changing our match ups of 80:20 in favor of Sheik?

 

[FIERCE]

I'm not a Sheik expert but I've played a few really good ones like Champ & Villi.

1. Perfect Sheilding them is my only way of getting past needles. If they notice you perfect sheilding them they usually lay off spamming them as much.
2. Fast falling u-airs work well for me especially if you autocancel them into something else.
3. You can flip jump out of the f-tilt. Be sure to do it AWAY from her so it will get you out of her zone.
4. Throw two off & keep one.

Sheik is the QUEEN at gimping. Try to approach the stage a little away from her as that f-air she has is killer even though it isn't strong its stun keeps ZSS from latching onto the edge since most will grab the edge immediately after it connects. I don't play many Sheiks but I hope this helps. I'm pretty sure Sheik has the advantage in this matchup.

 

[Blade1844]

Yeah, it helps a bunch. I will have to try it out to see. Thanks.

I wonder if anyone else has some suggestions...

 

[noradseven]

Use smash DI to get out of f-tilt.
back air if spaced properly outranges/outpriortizes everyone of sheiks moves.
Don't use over B alot, punish sheiks wiffs with d smash.
watch out for the god hand, it will instantly kill you if you get too predictable.
I don't know if people do it over there but sheiks up B cross ups are really good off the edge, and can totally screw up down b recoveries.

Get below shiek at an angle she has no attack normally she deals with this though fastfalls however your fast at falling too.

alot of sheiks hug the ground too much try grabbing

 

[Tezmata]

I'd say 80:20 Sheik is a bit of an exaggeration, but 65:35 easily. She's going to do two main things to annoy you: F-tilt locks and F-air semi-spikes. I'd say that the best thing to remember in this match is that you're a good gimp character too and your recovery is far better than hers. If she tries to Glide Vanish to hog the ledge, make sure you Down-B and footstool if possible, or just pull out your tether before she is able to grab it and then you've actually broken her guard.

 

[noradseven]

I'd say 80:20 Sheik is a bit of an exaggeration, but 65:35 easily. She's going to do two main things to annoy you: F-tilt locks and F-air semi-spikes. I'd say that the best thing to remember in this match is that you're a good gimp character too and your recovery is far better than hers. If she tries to Glide Vanish to hog the ledge, make sure you Down-B and footstool if possible, or just pull out your tether before she is able to grab it and then you've actually broken her guard.

65:35 is an exaggeration this match I thought used to be that bad, but their is so much gimmicky crap you can do to sheik.

The main advantage you have over her is your melee range (not over B), outranges her, you can bait whiffs alot, and just punish with back airs, if your off the edge and they chase down B stops that no kidding, down B head tap, or spike if they are dumb, will stop alot of sheiks gimmicks. I have fought this match alot the other way around Sheik is my #2 and we have someone who ZSS is their #2 character, and trust me, ZSS can play a good keep away game with Sheik.

 

[Blade1844]

Blade1844 vs East 9

We played like 14 matches the other day and this is the only one I won.

 

[fkacyan]

Don't play ZSS vs Sheik.

 

[noradseven]

Don't play ZSS vs Sheik.

Don't play games you can't win because games are only fun if you win.

 

[Blade1844]

See, that kind of thought process is no good. I am not going to just up and stop playing this match because it is too hard or it isn't in my favor.

Thanks to those who gave me positive ideas.

 

[Villi]

1. Perfect Sheilding them is my only way of getting past needles. If they notice you perfect sheilding them they usually lay off spamming them as much.

I noticed perfect shielding was a problem for me when I played you and Bone. When I see people doing that now, I run and grab after charging them instead of shooting.

It turns into sort of a guessing game, since I know Champ likes to DACUS if he can make you jump. I think you just need to read the Sheik right and find a creative way to launch her since ZSS def has the upperhand in a juggle situation.

Also, careful of letting Sheik ftilt you too much. Ftilt -> up smash kills ZSS at around 75%.

 

[noradseven]

I noticed perfect shielding was a problem for me when I played you and Bone. When I see people doing that now, I run and grab after charging them instead of shooting.

It turns into sort of a guessing game, since I know Champ likes to DACUS if he can make you jump. I think you just need to read the Sheik right and find a creative way to launch her since ZSS def has the upperhand in a juggle situation.

Also, careful of letting Sheik ftilt you too much. Ftilt -> up smash kills ZSS at around 75%.

Wait what no it doesn't, unless the stage has a super low ceiling, plus you can get out of the u-smash with ZSS too in fact alot of people can.

 

[Blade1844]

I noticed perfect shielding was a problem for me when I played you and Bone. When I see people doing that now, I run and grab after charging them instead of shooting.

It turns into sort of a guessing game, since I know Champ likes to DACUS if he can make you jump. I think you just need to read the Sheik right and find a creative way to launch her since ZSS def has the upperhand in a juggle situation.

Also, careful of letting Sheik ftilt you too much. Ftilt -> up smash kills ZSS at around 75%.

Yeah, that is probably my best bet. I have to get past the fact that he can read me as well. I suppose I need to mix it up more so that he doesn't know what I am going to do before I do it. I've been watching a lot of videos and will be using this information as well.

Thanks, Villi.

 

[Blistering Speed]

plus you can get out of the u-smash with ZSS too in fact alot of people can.

If you don't know what you're talking about then don't talk about it. It's guaranteed on everyone with the correct decay and percent.

 

[noradseven]

If you don't know what you're talking about then don't talk about it. It's guaranteed on everyone with the correct decay and percent.

I was pretty sure luigi's neutral air fast fall beats it.

Also it was a down B escape, at least the Sheik player I know couldn't land it on ZSS or luigi.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ftilt lock ***** ZSS hard even if you down-b out of it. I really hate this match-up a lot. A good sheik is a monster. Honestly I think it's probably as bad as or worse than Falco.

 

[noradseven]

Ftilt lock ***** ZSS hard even if you down-b out of it. I really hate this match-up a lot. A good sheik is a monster. Honestly I think it's probably as bad as or worse than Falco.

Apparently I need to play a good sheik.

 

[Blade1844]

Ftilt lock ***** ZSS hard even if you down-b out of it. I really hate this match-up a lot. A good sheik is a monster. Honestly I think it's probably as bad as or worse than Falco.

Funny you say that....he like to play falco too...

 

[Bouse]

Funny you say that....he like to play falco too...

CP Marth for Falco and 0-death his ***.

As for the Sheik issue, just find a secondary that can **** some of ZSS' bad matchups.

I'll give you a hint...

 

[noradseven]

CP Marth for Falco and 0-death his ***.

As for the Sheik issue, just find a secondary that can **** some of ZSS' bad matchups.

I'll give you a hint...

pika vs falco proably one of his worst matchups if not his worst, ZSS has a hard time on it as well.
A better pick is Diddy, and I didn't find him too hard to pick up after playing as ZSS alot.

But screw it ZSS doesn't have unwinable matchups suck it up and be a man.

 

[Blade1844]

pika vs falco proably one of his worst matchups if not his worst, ZSS has a hard time on it as well.
A better pick is Diddy, and I didn't find him too hard to pick up after playing as ZSS alot.

But screw it ZSS doesn't have unwinable matchups suck it up and be a man.

But who can say no to SSJ3 Pikachu?

 

[Bouse]

pika vs falco proably one of his worst matchups if not his worst.

Hmmm.....

I hate to say it, but Pikachu's power level is definitely over 9000.

 

[Blade1844]

Dangit, I knew I should have bet that $10 on the chance of someone using that line....

Anyway... I guess I just need to keep trucking along and work at it. Thanks to everyone who has commented positively so far. Please keep, most of it ><, coming...

 

[jibbyjaont]

Hmmm.....

I hate to say it, but Pikachu's power level is definitely over 9000.

In the manga it's 8000. Just had to break the news.

 

[Bouse]

In the manga it's 8000. Just had to break the news.

 

[Blade1844]

Okay, so this topic has gone under....

Can we get back on topic with ways to use ZSS to beat sheik?

 

[fkacyan]

Okay, so this topic has gone under....

Can we get back on topic with ways to use ZSS to beat sheik?

You don't.

Honestly, Sheik shuts down all of what ZSS does best. You can't space her because she can just needle camp you, her moves are too fast for you to use any stun moves, her fair destroys you off the edge, and boost smash kills at something like 75% on most stages.

Do yourself a favor and pick a character that doesn't get killed by Sheik so hard.

 

[Blade1844]

Ouch....just ouch... I must truck on. Perhaps I will find a way.

 

[The Filth]

I came up against a sheik that outskilled me in a tourney today, the only thing that seemed to lessen the **** he dished me was retreating plasma wires and impeccable powershielding/Jabs. SO naturally I was on the back foot constantly.

Sheiks Nair seemed to outprioritise most of my aerial attempts as well, on top of coming out lightning fast

Despite all my efforts he still absolutely destroyed me, I really don't suggest ZSS for fighting a sheik at all

 

[Kataefi]

CP Marth for Falco and 0-death his ***.

As for the Sheik issue, just find a secondary that can **** some of ZSS' bad matchups.

I'll give you a hint...

The problem is, Sheik can transform for this matchup and deal with pika a lot easier in princess form.

Counterpicking Sheik is generally hard, because there are very few matchups that give both the duo (Sheik/Zelda) tough times. I suggst MK, Snake, Olimar amongst others.

 

[Blade1844]

Hmm, I guess I was right to assume picking MK is the best option....dammit.

 

[noradseven]

You don't.

Honestly, Sheik shuts down all of what ZSS does best. You can't space her because she can just needle camp you, her moves are too fast for you to use any stun moves, her fair destroys you off the edge, and boost smash kills at something like 75% on most stages.

Do yourself a favor and pick a character that doesn't get killed by Sheik so hard.

I guess Im just a weird player but I only rely on my stuns moves and spacing moves for fear, and that doesn't work against Sheik.

Just go in an beat sheik at her own game, your back-air, u-air, and f-air, cause quite a few problems, for sheik.

ZSS back air > Sheik back air is one of the more problematic things for Sheik.

Plus ZSS does pretty good against sheik off the edge at least compared to the fact that she normally dominates off of it.

The stun moves should really only be used if Sheik whiffs something, with a pretty decent recovery time, especially downsmash.

Its still bad but she doesn't shut down your whole game, just the part of ZSS game that most people are familiar with.

 

[Blade1844]

Thats really helpful Noradseven, I will have to try playing in a way that is different then he would expect me to. Thank you.