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Gainesville Florida Smash and Heroes Of Newerth Chit-Chat

Proteus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
167
Location
Orlando/UCF
I've seen Ophelia's over 400. IIRC, HoN calculates APM unit by unit, so issuing one order to a group of 4 units counts as 4 actions. It's still funny to see though. And it's also possible they've changed it since beta, I haven't played in a while.
 

blindghost

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
115
Location
Tomorrow
Then your 350 apm is prolly around 85-100. And yes, it has been changed, my apm woulda been in the 400's with ophelia as well.
 

bladeofapollo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
980
Location
Orlando
Well MIIIIIIINE woulda been 1200. Puzzlebox, Command, Whispering Helm and spamming abilities make me the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
i knew it

hah

ricky

we got you
Hell nah, HoN and Left for Dead are like the two worst games in existence now; you guys substitute those two games for Melee too often. And Brawl's like the third worst on the list, but it least brawl sits in the vicinity of smash bros. Speaking of Brawl, we should convert Masky, DewDaDash, Neon Ness, etc. into Melee players. But I mean none of those games are even Tetris or Pac-man or nothin'.

Oh yea, shoutouts to everyone that came to my place yesterday. Cici's was nice as usual. And Saiya, I can't believe u're better than the Masta at Sonic 3! Good stuff!

And shoutouts to SnipaPnoi for reppin' my favorite smash character and givin' me a ride back to my place. Hope he's really back on the smash scene. I'll see you guys later tonight.
 

bladeofapollo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
980
Location
Orlando
Well in THAT case... I recommend not buying it until (at the earliest) Monday. They're having a free weekend for the next three days so you can check if you like it. I think they're only allowing old Beta accounts to re-log-in, but Josh, Dennis and me have some accounts you can borrow
 

RockCrock

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
2,688
Location
Play Project: M! Florida
With regard to assumptions that a given smash game is more technical than the other:
Until empirical evidence is presented (i.e. numbers, not just words), each side is merely just blowing smoke about which game is more demanding. You can say what you like about an individual technique being harder, but unless you can prove it, your words are hollow. But more importantly, we can all agree that gameplay as a whole is a better gauge of technical demands than a brief combination of buttons.

Thus, I would like to share the following LINK. The link presents research which examines the technical demands of Melee at the upper levels of tournament play. At the bottom of the OP you can find a summary of the data. I do not know if similar research has been done for Brawl gameplay, but I would be interested to learn about their findings.
I wish I could get some more responses to this post. Where'd you go, Dew?
 

Raistlin

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,215
I wish I could get some more responses to this post. Where'd you go, Dew?
Well in response, a true evaluation of the technical skill of both games would be pretty **** involved. It would require more than just number of button inputs, but also the distance your fingers need to move to pull off a move, the number of fingers involved, and the speed in which a certain input needs to be executed to actually perform whatever move. And probably some other factors I'm not thinking of. You'd need good video footage of people's hands as they play in addition to the gameplay videos. It'd be hard. And now I'm kind of intrigued lol.

I talked to him at the smashfest. He said he was just trolling everyone apparently.....
definitely calling shenanigans on that. "crap, I sounded ********.... uh, I was just trolling."
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
I think your numbers artificially inflate the APM of Melee because they include L-cancelling. L-cancelling isn't really a separate action that you have to think about, you should just do it whenever you land with an aerial, right? So I wouldn't say it's really an action, it's just a button press.
Well, considering you still HAVE to press said button I have to disagree with you. The fact that it's always the best option does not negate the fact that you still have to perform it.

Unless APM doesn't count the process required to do something and only counts actions that were consciously decided upon (I don't really know how APM counts things).
 

DewDaDash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,742
Location
エレクトリッ
I wish I could get some more responses to this post. Where'd you go, Dew?
you called?

well I was partially trolling. I still stand by my word that brawl has its technical aspects, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

Is melee as a whole more technical than brawl? Perhaps, but most of that stuff is easy to pull off when learned. At the end of the day though, i could care less about which is the most technical.
 

Raistlin

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,215
It only makes sense to count each tactical decision as an "action". If not, APM is a pretty worthless measurement. Like, if you have to press the X button 5 times during your airdodge or you lose the match, would it make sense to count those 5 button presses as actions? lol
I think "actions per minute" is understood here to mean button inputs in general, not specific actions like wavedashing or shuffling. Wavedashing would be 3 actions (jump, air dodge, DI), etc.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
It only makes sense to count each tactical decision as an "action". If not, APM is a pretty worthless measurement. Like, if you have to press the X button 5 times during your airdodge or you lose the match, would it make sense to count those 5 button presses as actions? lol
If you were required to make such presses then YES I would count them. It is a requirement to play the game and would be physically taxing to maintain, so I'd give them credit for doing so.


Do you think it's easy for Fox players to maintain such a technically demanding playstyle throughout a whole tournament? It'd be so much easier if they just never had to L-cancel and just had lower lag aerials. It'd be easier if they had a ledgehop waveland button too, since really they're only thinking of it as one action anyway.

I think that every action the player makes should be counted towards his APM. If a player is wasteful and does a lot of extra actions, then so be it. Let them have that high APM, after all it really doesn't mean anything with regards to an individual's skill in a game like melee. All it really shows is a general trend for how technically demanding a character is, with regards to individuals I think it's kinda worthless.


But that's just my opinion.
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
It only makes sense to count each tactical decision as an "action". If not, APM is a pretty worthless measurement. Like, if you have to press the X button 5 times during your airdodge or you lose the match, would it make sense to count those 5 button presses as actions? lol
if there's no animation. there is no action.
 

DewDaDash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,742
Location
エレクトリッ
Lol "i was just trolling guys" is such a cop out. Grow a pair.
Thats why i said I was partially trolling. The only thing I really trolled about was saying that I was gonna make marth top tier on gville again. No way do I want to put that type of work back into melee. The rest I wasn't really trolling.
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
completely unnecessary
Lol wait a minute, that's my line.

Too bad ricky didn't really get an account. Didn't seem likely anyway =p
Sorry guys, I can't pick up HoN for the same reason I won't be picking up too many other games; I don't have the time for them right now. Melee alone eats away unhealthy amounts of time from me already. It'd just be a bad idea for me to pick up something as time consuming as HoN.
 

exarch

doot doot doot
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
3,333
Location
Usually not playing Brawl. Location: Enterprise
Only reason Marth isn't top tier in Gville currently is cause Fred and I left. XD

Also as a peach player I don't lcancel my floatcancels; there is cognitive recognition behind "oh I need to lcancel this aerial," and "I'm float cancelling this one." At least for me anyway.
 

bladeofapollo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
980
Location
Orlando
Also as a peach player I don't lcancel my floatcancels; there is cognitive recognition behind "oh I need to lcancel this aerial," and "I'm float cancelling this one." At least for me anyway.
So... I think floating-canceling is the same number of actions as shffl'ing. Hold down->jump-> aerial->fast-fall vs. jump->aerial->hit down->press L.

Ill still **** the majority of you in melee
Oh ok challenges I see. Lemme just brush the dust off my melee controller nd ima bring 06 back to ya.
ill probably contact linguini sometime just to get back in shape and **** y'all.
The community isn't minor, u got rockcrock, linguini, me, phanna, and other ppl.
Not trolling? Alright, you have until the end of 2011 to take a match off of all of us. Good luck.
 

blindghost

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
115
Location
Tomorrow
Well, apm is inputs. Globally, across all games, apm is inputs. If after falcon/warlock kick you spam jump, then the spam is counted.

APM=/=NAPM (Necessary APM). APM is a person specific, not really character or game specific, aspect. And every input including l-cancelling and ff-ing should be counted. Things that shouldn't count: edge-cancelling, errr, I can't really think of other purposeful built-in actions w/o an input, but there have to be more...
 
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