Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Shaya]

To cover the many threads that are concerning questions on how to improve or similar

Hi and welcome to the Game Play General, where questions with a personal context or asking for general advice can be placed.
If you have observations or questions relating of a technical nature you should discuss them in the Mechanics & Techniques thread.

@SamuraiPanda has written a great introductory guide to Smash, which you can find here.
You may find the Academy has information you're otherwise looking for.

 

[IcyFlamz96]

because i'm switching over to a controller that is more up to par with what you should use for smash.

For SIX YEARS i've used JUST the wiimote... And it's really fun playing that way for me because I'm just so used to it and it's like I don't even have to worry about controls. It's almost as if the characters' movesets are an extension of ME. Except of course, I never even attempted grabs or certain tilts because of the limitations that controller brings..

The only other controller I have right now is a gamepad, and today I've been fighting through the struggles of learning this completely foreign device (for me, the gamecube controller is foreign for smash). I started off playing with my Wiimote and it was so much fun since everything felt so natural... But I have to get used to the other non solo wiimote controller since they'd help me out in the long run. Right now man it is definitely not easy. I'm more fighting myself than my opponent...

The reason i'm doing this though is because I want to get to at least a semi competitive level.... Anyone else have any experiences with switching from the wiimote after using it for so long? This is seriously extremely hard.

 

[Pyr]

Your controller will have little bearing on your performance, unless there are techs that are controller specific. VANGIEF, YOU INCREDIBLE *******!

If you don't know, Vangief used a pad for Streetfighter 4. He could do standing 720s on a dpad. He placed in Evo and wrecks people without "the best" control method in the game.

 

[Morbi]

Yes, I was used to the Gamecube controller for about a decade of Smash; however, my Wii sporadically broke and I purchased a Wii U which did not have GC compatibility aside from third-party adapters and more recently the Nintendo adapter which I do not own. I had to learn the Wiimote sideways (as I did not like the nun-chuck combination when I tried it). It was not easy and I grew impatient; instead, I ordered a Wii Classic Pro Controller and it was decent. It took me a couple of days to get used to it. I used these two options for Brawl. After that, once Smash 4 was approaching, I figured it was time to try the Wii U Pro Controller as I heard favorable things about it. I tried it and got used to it, but there were far too many input errors on my part (I could not recover diagonally, taunt, and the stick was sensitive resulting in unintentional dashes), so I went to the Gamepad (which is actually my favorite for Smash 4). But, AGAIN, there were input errors, I could not d-tilt or d-special without turning the other way. So I went crawling back to the Wii Classic Pro.

It is a pain in the ass, so I feel the burden you face. If you stick with a controller, you will adapt to it and condition yourself to become accustomed to the nuances. The Gamecube controller is the standard for a reason, I would recommend learning on it if you are willing to put forth the time and effort. It gets better after a couple of days.

 

[IcyFlamz96]

Your controller will have little bearing on your performance, unless there are techs that are controller specific. VANGIEF, YOU INCREDIBLE *******!

If you don't know, Vangief used a pad for Streetfighter 4. He could do standing 720s on a dpad. He placed in Evo and wrecks people without "the best" control method in the game.

I mean is this even really a valid stance here tho cause the wiimote literally makes it extremely impractical to ever go for uptilts.

 

[Morbi]

I mean is this even really a valid stance here tho cause the wiimote literally makes it extremely impractical to ever go for uptilts.

It is a valid stance as it is his opinion and he is entitled to it. But opinions can be wrong.

 

[IcyFlamz96]

I'd honestly LOVE to just keep using the wiimote... But when it's literally taking away options form me, I just can't. I'm sure I could get used to grabbing on the wiimote after a while if I keep trying.... But the up tilt.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I've never been in a position as extreme as yours, and while I stick to GC to avoid learning pains, I've had to use other controllers in different situations. You basically just learn with time; if you take a good controller (GC or pro) and put the hours in, I guarantee you'll be satisfied with how you can play with it within a few weeks. If you're having to learn to integrate grabbing and certain tilts you just didn't use before, that's an extra challenge as well, but just take it one step at a time and keep trying to play a bit better today than you did yesterday on all fronts and you should end up okay.

 

[LordFluffy]

Title slightly misleading

I mean is this even really a valid stance here tho cause the wiimote literally makes it extremely impractical to ever go for uptilts.

As someone who plays more traditional fighting games with a stick over Pad, let me just state that this is indeed a valid stance. While it may appear that one choice is better overall, personal preference is entirely a factor. (in the case of wiimote its just a limitation thing) I can play a game like persona 4 arena just fine on a pad, but i VASTLY prefer a stick to it, because its not only more comfortable but easier to pull off combos simply because i am more used to, and much prefer a stick.

The transition will be hard it always is. Your brain just needs time to adapt. being so used to one control scheme will without a doubt make transitioning hard. god knows trying to play controller after my stick broke made me internally have an stroke. just binge on the game with that new control scheme really, soon enough everything will start feeling natural. or who knows, maybe you'll be that one dude who's laughed at for not using GCN controller and then proceeds to wipe the floor.

 

[Morbi]

I'd honestly LOVE to just keep using the wiimote... But when it's literally taking away options form me, I just can't. I'm sure I could get used to grabbing on the wiimote after a while if I keep trying.... But the up tilt.

I know how you feel, I want to continue using the Gamepad; however, as I stated, it keeps turning me around when I try to d-tilt or d-special. So while I am used to it, I am not going to tolerate options being taken from me. In this game, u-tilt is pretty important. It seems to be a BnB combo with most of the cast. It usually leads into a lot of the follow-ups and whatnot too.

 

[IcyFlamz96]

or who knows, maybe you'll be that one dude who's laughed at for not using GCN controller and then proceeds to wipe the floor.

That's literally what I am with the vast majority of my friends lol. (Not saying i'm good good, none of us are near competitive level)

But like I said, I almost want to agree with you, but I don't think personal preference (just sticking with what i'm used to) can justify using a controller that literally physically takes away options from me. Do you have examples of people consistently placing well in tournaments using controllers that remove options almost completely?

I know how you feel, I want to continue using the Gamepad; however, as I stated, it keeps turning me around when I try to d-tilt or d-special. So while I am used to it, I am not going to tolerate options being taken from me. In this game, u-tilt is pretty important. It seems to be a BnB combo with most of the cast. It usually leads into a lot of the follow-ups and whatnot too.

Yeah I can't be missin out on dat bread and butter

 

[Luco]

I use wiimote + nunchuk and i'm doing pretty fine, though it's arguable as to whether wii-chuk is a controller that removes options (aside from DACUS in Brawl which my character could never use I could do everything else; and my character was a technical one) in terms of learning a new controller, my advice is try to configure to it the controls that feel most familiar to you. For instance, when I used 3DS, I was used to a shield button on my left hand because of the nunchuk and the grab on the right, so I switched the L and R buttons. I also didn't like the GC way of having A right next to B, so I switched it and made Y my 'specials' controller. Y'know, stuff like that. Once I got to my most familiar setting, I just practiced with it until it felt smooth and easy to use... and it did.

 

[KoeBigS8]

So I'm here just trying to get better just like everyone else and I'm wondering what other people are thinking during a game, do you guys think actually saying what moves to do in your mind helps or should you play on instinct?
What is going through your head when playing this game during friendlies or in a tourney setting?

 

[Thinkaman]

Virtually 100% of time is spent looking at the opponent's character, and trying to internalize their habits, patterns, and decisions.

 

[Raijinken]

When I'm in serious mode, I pay attention to my opponent most, and look for openings and habits (helps that I play against the same group of friends most of the time). I then quickly (more or less subconsciously) pick what I think will work the best for either racking damage, dodging, or killing. Then I act, and hope it works.

The competitive mindset is to constantly improve and play your best. And hopefully that best is better than your opponent's best.

 

[CURRY]

Hm.
I started out on Wiimote + nunchuk, but switched to GC controller because I read about cool stuff you could do with the c-stick, namely, SDI.

Again, this is like deciding whether to use tap-jump or not. There are SO many posts on this.
In short, if you feel like you're lacking in something that you want to do, e.g. if you really want DACUS (removed from the game, sigh) because your character has the best DACUS in the game, it's super applicable, and you just absolutely CANNOT do it with the wiimote, switch to GC if you want.
If you cannot utilt without turning tapjump off, just turn it off. If it doesn't, PLEASE keep it on.
Yeah, so controller use really isn't something that you can just ask people about. It's all about preference.
Of course, it's fine that you posted this, since we're here to answer your questions, but...
My personal answer is just that I'm going to tell you to just decide on your own. Switching controller layouts is really painful, and takes like, a month to get used to. So yeah pick one and stick to it, but whenever you feel like changing, just do it.

I would also like to add that I find it easier to shorthop on the Gamecube controller compared to Wiimote + Nunchuk.

 

[Bladeyer]

Okay guys, I've got a question regarding de GC controller and the use of the c-stick.
As you may know, there's an issue regarding the c-stick when using aerials (it blocks the left stick and you cant control your aerial momentum). At first I was really preocupied by the issue, but then I started just tapping the c-stick for my aerials and i was able to control my aerial momentum.

So I hear there's lots of people changing their c-stick controls to "Attack" instead of "Smash Attack". My question is... Is there any difference between changing the controls and just tapping the c-stick regarding aerial momentum? What controls are you guys using?

And one last thing... I've been asking myself about how to hold the controller while doing aerials, cuz i've tried 3 ways...

1st: move your index finger to Y, and use your thumb to use the c-stick for the aerial.

Pros: you can perform jump and almost instantly after perform the aerial.
Con: really hard to do at first if not practiced

2nd: Use your thumb to hit the jump button and inmediatly after the A button + left stick input.

Pros: Easy to do. Do aerial inmediatly after jump
Con: You lose aerial momentum cuz you are using the left stick to perform the aerial.

3rd: The third way I tried, and i've been using until now. You use your thumb to jump, and then move it to the c-stick and perform aerial. I find this way the worst, cuz you cant inmediatly perform an aerial after you jump (unless you can change your thumb from the Y/X button to the c-stick in an instant)

So what do you guys think about this? Which way do you hold the controller when trying to perform an aerial?

 

[TheConfuZzledDude]

Best way is to set Z (it's the only digital shoulder button) to jump, and put grab on something else, so you don't need to move your thumb

 

[_Magus_]

You're gonna have trouble if you use any of these. I find setting c-stick to attack works the best, as it's the least complicated and doesn't cancel your left stick.

 

[Serpentvap]

Buy a WII U Pro controller and set L to jump
I just couldn't stand the gap between C stick and Y anymore...

GC controller is a good pad if you're not afraid of fingers cramps after playing for hours

About the Cstick or "Right Stick" for me, i left the default settings on, and it seems to work fine in the air. However maybe i'm not expererienced enough to judge by myself then i'll wait to read other opinions

 

[DunnoBro]

Best way is to set Z (it's the only digital shoulder button) to jump, and put grab on something else, so you don't need to move your thumb

Yea, get used to Z-jump.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I set L as my jump button, even though it's a trigger I find it intuitive to use as a jump button

 

[Jaxas]

I set L as my jump button, even though it's a trigger I find it intuitive to use as a jump button

That's what I do too, but DANG do I hate how unlike in Brawl you can't just remove the springs (Sm4sh doesn't register the next press until the analog trigger resets all the way up)

 

[Funkermonster]

Couldn't find a better place to ask this, but here goes: I got a bad habit of playing multiple characters, a total of 15 currently, and I think its starting to affect my learning process and slow me down. While I don't actually main all 15 and I wouldn't use them all in a tournament, I think even my pocket characters are hindering my growth since trying to semi-learn them takes away time I could spend training with my true mains, and I still haven't found the top 5 I enjoy the most. As a thorn in the side, I haven't yet played with everyone and there are about 3 more characters I'm starting to like too which is probably gonna make it worse. A couple of the characters I'm playing are also seen by some as technical and hard to use, so that might be a bit of an issue too.

I still wanna get at least semi-good in the future, but I think learning around 15 fighters is seriously hurting my progress right now, since I tend to get bored using the same guy multiple times and can't help playing another. Has anyone dealt with this kind of thing before? How do you overcome it?

 

[IcyFlamz96]

I feel the opposite way. I think I have a problem of ONLY playing Greninja and no one else... well I think that's a problem at least

 

[Trunks159]

@ Funkermonster I'm sorta the same way. I juggle a lot of characters in the air that sometimes have different playstyles. Using a bunch of characters may slightly hinder your perfection of another, however, this game is moreso what your opponent does. If you can understand what your opponent does, your chances increase. If you have personally used a ton of characters, you will excel at facing those other characters.

I use mainly the sword characters (all 8 of them), some Sonic, Mega Man, Duck Hunt, Greninja, Lucario. Mario, Pikachu, and maybe a few more, however, since I use so many, I know the ones I'm more comfortable with.

I excel with Ike and Link.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I feel the opposite way. I think I have a problem of ONLY playing Greninja and no one else... well I think that's a problem at least

Sticking with one character is generally superior than generalizing. Generalizing may give you more character counter picking options, but you will never be good with any one of those general characters than the one character you focus and dedicate your time on.

Now there are exceptions. Having a secondary is fairly normal, particularly if they cover that one match up that your character just can't handle. I don't think Greninja has any polarizing match ups like that, but maybe he has a few he loses but another character wins all of them. Could be worth while to pick up that character. But in that case you generally just practise that character against those handful of bad match ups.

@ the controller situation. What I would recommend is looking at the Pro Controller and Gamecube controller and see which one can most easily be set up to what you're used to. I'm talking about physical button positions, hand position on the controller, and all of that. After you pick which one to go with, map out the controller however you want. Doesn't have to be normal. You could make one of the shoulder buttons Jump, C-Specials, Z-Attack if you really wanted to.

Spoiler

On my Gamecube controller layout I have X as Grab and Tap Jump off. I don't like moving my finger off of the triggers to hit the Z button, I'd rather just roll my thumb over. Makes it really easy for me: left thumb = movement, right thumb = attack options (A, B, C-Stick, Y-Jump, X-Grab), trigger fingers are defensive options (L/R for Shield/Spotdodge/Roll/Airdodge).

After you have what you think might work best mapped out, mess around with it. Test it out it training mode and classic mode. Give Classic Mode at least a few run throughs I say, then decide if you think you can get used to it or if it needs more tweaking.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I have been using Z-jump for the last week or so and really like it. It is non-trivially better and more convenient than using Y to jump in combination with the C-stick for aerials (I would only recommend using X or Y to jump if you have no plans to ever use the C-stick, which I would discourage anyway). L-jumping feels entirely horrid on the Gamecube controller to me and I find that tap jump is even worse, so Z was the only option left to go for. The button also feels much less sensitive to pressure compared to some other buttons, which is great for short hopping consistently.

 

[kyxsune]

Question to those using Z jump, what do you set grab to. Right now i use y to jump and R to grab.

 

[Jaxas]

Question to those using Z jump, what do you set grab to. Right now i use y to jump and R to grab.

I may end up switching to Zjump from Ljump (Unless I can find a workaround to make the GCC's L-button digital like spring removing in Brawl) but I'd set either L or Y to grab, I think. I jump with X and rarely (if ever) use Y, so...

 

[kyxsune]

I may end up switching to Zjump from Ljump (Unless I can find a workaround to make the GCC's L-button digital like spring removing in Brawl) but I'd set either L or Y to grab, I think. I jump with X and rarely (if ever) use Y, so...

But then where would shield go @.@....I'm thinking ill leave r as grab and just learn to use my middle finger.....for more than insults.

edit: welp this feels awful, back to the drawing board.

 

[Jaxas]

But then where would shield go @.@....I'm thinking ill leave r as grab and just learn to use my middle finger.....for more than insults.

edit: welp this feels awful, back to the drawing board.

I use just R for shield, so that stays in place

 

[Ultimastrike]

All that happens a majority of the time is people just beating you out of everything? It feels like I'm worthless when it comes to Smash whenever I try and play against an opponent since all they do is roll all over the place, sit and wait, or just cheese you with Diddy Kong? I feel incompetent even and not tournament ready if I can't even be good at this game.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I sympathize, and in fact feel the same way sometimes when I run into the rare person on FG who really knows what they're doing and completely bodies me. It helps to just put the game down, take a step back, and spend a bit of time decompressing. Frustration just makes you perform worse.

Watching videos that feature your character can also be useful, just to study and maybe gain a bit of perspective.

 

[Gawain]

Well I'll just be blunt, it probably means you wouldn't do very well in a tournament setting either. The only way you'll get better is if you keep playing. And on top of that I really do feel like certain people just don't have the capability to be really good. There are tons of players who have been playing Smash forever, even in the competitive scene, and they just don't make progress. Not everyone can be top level because it's not just from practice.

My point is, practice will make you better but sometimes the other guy is just inherently a better player, even if he doesn't play as much. So don't worry too much about it.

 

[Ultimastrike]

I sympathize, and in fact feel the same way sometimes when I run into the rare person on FG who really knows what they're doing and completely bodies me. It helps to just put the game down, take a step back, and spend a bit of time decompressing. Frustration just makes you perform worse.

Watching videos that feature your character can also be useful, just to study and maybe gain a bit of perspective.

I agree on it, but what if you had learned all the abilities you could about your character along with their general gameplay? Would it just be match-up knowledge and particular game knowledge at that point? I don't understand in the least since I do get mad a bit easily when they cheese me with a bad FSmash I could've dodged.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Well I'll just be blunt, it probably means you wouldn't do very well in a tournament setting either. The only way you'll get better is if you keep playing. And on top of that I really do feel like certain people just don't have the capability to be really good. There are tons of players who have been playing Smash forever, even in the competitive scene, and they just don't make progress. Not everyone can be top level because it's not just from practice.

My point is, practice will make you better but sometimes the other guy is just inherently a better player, even if he doesn't play as much. So don't worry too much about it.

The other question I keep asking myself is "Am I Tournament Ready?" I keep thinking I'm not because I keep getting beat by other players that are better. I know there's always someone better out there, but getting beat repeatedly makes me just want to stay away from tournaments since I'm nothing but a scrub.

 

[Gawain]

The other question I keep asking myself is "Am I Tournament Ready?" I keep thinking I'm not because I keep getting beat by other players that are better. I know there's always someone better out there, but getting beat repeatedly makes me just want to stay away from tournaments since I'm nothing but a scrub.

Just go to them anyways and get beaten at the tournament. You'll learn a lot more from a loss in real life. Just suck it up and realize that you'll probably go 0-2 everytime for a little while and get stomped in friendlies since the other guys are gonna be better, but know that it's a good thing. Playing online almost does you no good. In fact I'd say it is actually detrimental to you. It will program you to play on one type of stage, against a very limited number of strategies, and with delay in the input. It's fine to do it sometimes but you really should play locally about 80 percent of the time.

 

[PingPongCop]

The other question I keep asking myself is "Am I Tournament Ready?" I keep thinking I'm not because I keep getting beat by other players that are better. I know there's always someone better out there, but getting beat repeatedly makes me just want to stay away from tournaments since I'm nothing but a scrub.

So many players in Smash 4 sympathize with you here. I'm 13. Now I'm no Wizzrobe, but I've always thought I'd suck in a tournament. Went down to my first one two weeks ago. Of course all the other competitors are in their 20s-30s. Of course I got bodied. But honestly, to know that I aaaaaaaalmost beat the guy who organized the tournament himself is enough I need. And I didn't get to that skill level in a flash either. Been playing Smash with a competitive mind for about a year and a half or two years, and still can't perform even the most basic reads, know what to do in every situation....

You'll get there. Baby steps. Baby steps.

Plus, getting bodied is a good thing. If someone wrecks you online, save that replay. Watch it. Look at the mistakes you made, what the opponent did exactly that killed you. Replicate it, master it, then make it your own. It may sound like a lame kung-fu movie training montage, but it's true. It helps. Alot.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Just go to them anyways and get beaten at the tournament. You'll learn a lot more from a loss in real life. Just suck it up and realize that you'll probably go 0-2 everytime for a little while and get stomped in friendlies since the other guys are gonna be better, but know that it's a good thing. Playing online almost does you no good. In fact I'd say it is actually detrimental to you. It will program you to play on one type of stage, against a very limited number of strategies, and with delay in the input. It's fine to do it sometimes but you really should play locally about 80 percent of the time.

And what if you don't have options to play Locally? What if you don't have a chance to get in the Smash scene because of transportation? If you need to be there in person, then there's no real use to me understanding Smash as a whole online.