Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[A2ZOMG]

Free Bucket.

 

[MrEh]

Free Bucket.

Not that much of an issue, since Bucket Fire is so weak. After a full bucket, the fire edgeguard will force him off the ledge.

Bowser hates planking. ><


In all seriousness though, Bowser has no realistic way around this.

 

[Neb]

Not that much of an issue, since Bucket Fire is so weak. After a full bucket, the fire edgeguard will force him off the ledge.

Just to add, G&W could always cancel out the embers with uair, timing and such may be a little tricky, but its possible. You also have to consider the weakening effect of Bowser's flame, which will temporarily appease his edgeguarding options. So like you said, using firebreath as a counter to G&W's ledgecamp isn't very releastic since Game & Watch will outwork the flame.

 

[MrEh]

So like you said, using firebreath as a counter to G&W's ledgecamp isn't very releastic since Game & Watch will outwork the flame.

Bowser has only one realistic way to stop Game and Watch's ledgecamping.

It's called the Down Taunt, and it's awesome.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

I'm just gonna say that as a bowser player, I HATE G&W.

 

[Hixxy]

<3 MrEh. Nice write up. Bowser's Utilt actually kills G&W in the 80% ranges on most stages. Think slightly slower Snake's Utilt with a different hit box. 90%+ will kill G&W too fast to allow bucket canceling (to my knowledge).

 

[omegablackmage]

Bowser: (60/40)

General Matchup:

• Bowser, the king of grab releases. He's notable for racking up damage with his releases, and he can have decent range and punishment options as well. Also, being a heavyweight, he has the notorious strong ko moves and the high weight.
• Bowser has some interesting moves. For the most part, he doesn't have too much range, but dtilt, ftilt, uptilt, jabs, fsmash all have pretty decent range/priority. Also, his up b oos has invincibility, so that will be able to beat attacks if used correctly.
• Bowser has a plethora of kill moves. Dtilt, smashes, up air/tilt, are all really strong, and the fair, side b, bair, ftilt, can also kill if they kept them fresh. Overall, if your at around 80, you need to be really weary, most of the moves in his set can ko gw pretty quickly.
• There are very few edgeguard options for bowser. Flame angled down can apply pressure to gw once he lands on the stage, but overall bowser going off the stage will put him in a risky position. However when your on the ledge, watch out for angled ftilts, dtilts, and fsmashes, they pack a punch and can hit you when your on the ledge.
• Fairs work well to push bowser off the stage, but your going to need good spacing. Fortress has pretty good priority, so your going to need to work around that. Other than that, good hogs and dtilts will probably help too. His recovery is pretty 1 tracked, he doesn't have any tools to get back other than up b, so use that to your advantage.
• Combos for bowser? lol, no just his grab releases. He can forward b and fair you if you jump break from the grab, and jab, ftilt, regrab, and side b. Not too bad, other characters have it worse, and you should be able to avoid grabs easily enough, however, keep in mind that at like 80 percent near the edge, this could spell an easy way for him to kill.
• Bowsers buffer roll is horrendous, and his tech roll is only average at best, dthrowing is probably a good idea in this matchup considering his large body size too. When up throwing/up airing him, watch for the bowser bomb, other than that upairs/nairs will probably wreck him.

General Strategies:

• This matchup is pretty simple, like alot of the other low/mid tiers are. Its mostly using your range to your advantage, whereas they can't do too much about it, which is usually what makes them low tier in the first place.
• Work to avoid getting grabbed, which will hurt you the most. Fortresses will be used on the bowsers part to get them outta tight spots, so keep that in mind. Overall, fsmashes are probably the only move you really have to work around, and those are easily punished. Pressure with good spacing, and you will come out on top fairly easily.
• Bucket the fire breath if they use it alot, but it isn't the strongest of buckets, only probably killing at like 60 and up.
• Ledgecamping is a complete pain for bowser to deal with, use this if your desperate and need some breathing room.
• The uptilt is probably going to kill you the earliest of all his ko moves, its one of the strongest uptilts in the game.
• Watch the bowsercides, di into the stage at all times when you get up b'd.

Stages:

• Anywhere bad recoveries falter. RC, frigate, japes all probably work good as usual. Yoshi's is probably his best neutral, just a guess though.
• Avoid shallow ceilings probably, like halberd/corneria.

 

[omegablackmage]

these will probably start moving faster, considering at this point, there isn't too much to these matchups.

 

[BigLøu]

As a luigi main i am scared to death of turtle spacing. Although it is refreshing that luigi can kill game and watch absurdely low. With game and watches priority, I defintly give the advantage to game and watch, and its not a matchup as luigi that I enjoy facing.

 

[cutter]

I see this as around a 65/35 advantage for GW.

His disjointed hitboxes give Luigi nightmares all across the board. It's not just Bair that will really give Luigi problems, but Nair is also his bane and Uair juggles are very powerful against Luigi's poor aerial mobility.

Luigi loves his air game and GW does an excellent job at completely dominating Luigi with his disjointed hitboxes. As long as GW plays a semi-good spacing game he can just live off the disjointed hitboxes and have the upper hand for the majority of the match.

The reason it's not a huge blowout in favor of GW is Luigi's ability to kill. Jab to up B is not fun at all and his Fsmash has similar crushing knockback like GW's Fsmash has. Bucket Braking is a godsend in helping salvage GW from his glass-cannon nature, but it isn't the end all solution since GW will still die pretty early to fresh Up Bs and Fsmashes.

Nair and Usmash are also great kills for Luigi for punishing GW's mistakes. While not as brutal as up B and Fsmash, they can still get the job done albeit at much higher %s.

 

[CR4SH]

Turtle, credit card, fishies. BAD NEWS BEARS!

A good gw that can time and space his aerials correctly on defense gives luigi terrible problems. GW completely outclasses the L man on the ground so the aerial approach is really all that's left. As long as you can hit luigi away during his aerial approach, QQ weegee.

Luigi does have absurd killing potential on gw though. I'd like to ammend a previous statement, someone said that luigi fsmash has knockback similar to gw's fsmash. The fact is that luigi's fsmash has MUCH better knockback. It kills gw at something absurd like 75 or 77% when angled upwards.

My favorite way to get the first stock off of an unsuspecting gw is to spam fireballs until he takes the bait. The butcket has more than enough lag to just run up and shoryuken. Thats like a 43% kill on gw. Winsauce.

65:35 sounds right to me.

 

[WIGI]

maybey NOW you gusy will want to play me for the day 2 of xmas? i posted a thread in the g+W boards. i still need more practis so profile msg me.

 

[PKNintendo]

im thinking 65-35 for this one:

☼ pit loves arrows, gw probably does the best at ruining this
☼ dtilt, fair, up b, bacon all really hurt pits recovery imo
☼ bair, key, dtilt can beat most of pits approaches
☼ bucket braking makes it even harder for pit to ko gw, taking the seemingly only good side to pits argument

does pit fail more than ness? or is this a 65/35?

what stages other than yoshi's would be good against pit? rc? frigate orpheon?

you guys should watch the hylian v ky matches if you need any starters for the matchup.

Ness does not fail.

Yes im a ninja that way. But on topic, Ness mains will rediscuss G&W at our boards soon enough so... Beware.

 

[jbandrew]

hmmm Yea this matchup is definetly in GAW's favor. If the GAW can consistently space itself with B air and its other ridiculously good aerials... then they shouldn't have a problem killing a desperate Luigi that wants to get in to attack you at least once >_>

Just keep your space, and use all sorts of GAW sheninegans to make the Luigi player mad and you just won. Luigi might just end up running or jumping into an F-smash XD

65-35 GAW's favor.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think this matchup is around 7/3 G&W's favor. He's a pretty hard counter to Luigi.

Luigi doesn't have many good approaches against characters that have more disjointed range than he does. His main approaches like D-air -> N-air, and Tornado are all very risky in matchups like these, and G&W is no exception. His out of shield options are pretty poor too, because he slides away a mile whenever his shield is touched by anything, and that works in G&W's favor in staying safe. F-air and D-air approaches also become more viable in this matchup due to Luigi lacking any real threatening means to punish them without a lucky powershield, and the usual brickwalls with G&W's Smashes and his D-tilt also work well here.

Luigi might have some 0-40% setups from a D-throw or U-tilt, but good luck getting that on G&W. You can try to camp fireball if he's at a kill percent, but he can hit through it pretty easily btw.

Also, G&W is one of those characters who is very good at edgeguarding Luigi. If he correctly calls either an air dodge, a Tornado, or a Green Missile, it's a free hit from an Up-B or F-air. If Luigi is aiming for the ledge, D-air denies him access from there.

Really, the one thing I find Luigi is crying for in this matchup and others is a reliable out of shield option.

 

[Tero.]

either 65/35 or 70/30 in favor of GaW

Positiv for GaW:
- Priority
- Range (disjointed hitboxes)
- Luigis lack of aerial mobility gives gaw good chances for juggling

Positiv for Luigi:
- Fsmash/UpB and stuff can kill GW at ridiculous low %

 

[Collective of Bears]

these will probably start moving faster, considering at this point, there isn't too much to these matchups.

I always thought a week was way too long for a matchup anyway. Wolf boards did theirs one a day or something close to it.

But yeah, G&W ***** Weegee. Turtle spacing is a nightmare. 65:35 G&W.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I am a Luigi main and I will like to put in a little bit of input
Luigi's Slide works both ways. It helps him out of combos but makes it harder for him to punish opponents with definite note to game and watch's f-smash and Down Smash.

GaW Strengths
GaW smashes over luigi smash's in terms of priority
Down air has INSANE priority
Up Smash over Luigi Down air
At longer ranges, Luigi can't fireball camp due to Bucket
Better recovery overall than Luigi in terms of abusing it.
Luigi Floatiness + Game and Watch Float Moves (up air, up B) = annoyance.
Better overall Priority.
Up tilt combos don't work well vs lighter chars like game and watch.
If your opponent can't DI out of turtles abuse it.

Luigi Strengths
He is heavier and can escape aerial combos due to floatiness.
Up B Kills ridiculously fast.
Tilted F-Smash kills Game and watch incredibly fast and is an incredibly good shield poke
Back air helps immensely
Game and Watch's Shield is Horrible. Abuse it Well.
Luigi's N-air also kills well and does reasonably well vs all of Game and Watch's aerials.
Better recovery in terms of range
Grab combos don't work well vs Luigi.
DI out of the turtle, PLEASE.

Game and Watch strategies: Abuse your hitboxes. Abuse Game and Watch's priority. Abuse Down air and the extra hitboxes.
Luigi strategies: When you need a Kill, GET IT. Up B combos, Back air, N-Air, and F-Smash are incredibly good at killing. DI out of the turtle.

Game and Watch stages
Anything without a short ceiling. ban Haliberd. For neutrals, ban Yoshi's due to lower ceiling or Lylat. BF is a good stage or any stage with a good high ceiling like FD.

Luigi Stages: ban any stage with a high ceiling. I personally ban FD.

And why does everyone say the turtle is so overpowered........DI helps a LOT.

60-40 Game and watch or 65-35.

 

[omegablackmage]

couple of corrections:
gw's shield is not bad, average at the least
nair doesn't really do well vs any aerial, just might come out faster, but doesn't beat any aerials.
gw doesn't really have throw combos, but he does avoid the tech chasing well, up throws work just as well vs him.

write up tommorow probably.

 

[Tero.]

gw doesn't really have throw combos, but he does avoid the tech chasing well, up throws work just as well vs him. .

lol I was going to say the same thing

because this "Luigi Floatiness + Game and Watch Float Moves (up air, up B) = annoyance." and this "Grab combos don't work well vs Luigi." kinda clash

as already mentioned multiple times Luigi is kinda susceptible to juggling and since uthrow is a basic juggle start, well yeah you know ...

 

[omegablackmage]

Luigi: (70/30)

General Matchup:

• He's one of the best combo'ers in the game, luigi is also surprisingly strong and can kill people in single combos if played right, watch out.
• Priority and range are not luigi's forte at all. If anything his tornado has the most priority of his attacks, but it still has little range. Bair probably has the most range, but not enough priority to pierce gw's attacks.
• His main kill moves are probably the fsmash and up b. Beyond that nairs, upsmash/dsmashes, misfires, and maybe bairs will make up the rest of his kills. Mainly you need to watch out for the first two, up b will kill you at 40% on most stages, and the fsmash probably in the 70's.
• Luigi probably can't edgeguard you very well. Fireballs work against most characters to pressure them, but those can be bucketed off stage. Nair/Up b will probably be able to take out any aerial attempts.
• Luigi can be tricky to edgeguard, your best bet is probably to dair him on his way up, fair attempts off the stage will work to interrupt his side b as well. If he's in the range, bacon can clog his recovery up too.
• Luigi is full of combos. I can't even list them theres so many variations. Just about all of his aerials are good to link together, his throws chain into aerials, and side b can help him move in and out whenever he needs to. The worst is when he can jab to up b, because this works on gw, he can't shield inbetween them.
• Luigi has excellent rolls, i would only dthrow once in a while after conditioning the up throw, even then doing an instant dsmash won't hit him, he can roll out before hand. Up throws are nice though, he is very floaty and will have a very hard time getting out of the up air chains.

General Strategies:

• Bucket with caution, if at max range, or if your on a platform, you might be able to avoid taking serious damage, but if your too close, the up b will find its way to you, and it will hurt. When off the stage, your likely to only take an aerial for bucketing.
• Make sure you up b to get out of his combos, its your best bet. Don't worry about trying to interrupt him with keys, just regroup and start pressuring at range again.
• His approaches are usually fireball or down b based. Remember that the dtilt can take care of both of these if you want to play defensively. It should also outrange all of his aerials/ground moves, thus making it very difficult for him to approach.
• The reason this matchup is rated a 7/3 is because luigi has very few approaches and has no reliable way to get around any of gw's hitboxes. Once he does he can lay some damage down, and he certainly can get kills if gw makes mistakes, but if the gw plays a decent spacing game, luigi will become very aggravated very quickly at his inability to deal damage.

Stages:

• Go for the high ceilings to avoid early kills. Fsmash (di'ed right) and up b both kill up so japes is great. Neutrals like bf and fd are good stages to work with too.
• Avoid halberd, corneria, delphino probably. Anything that facilitates his kill range.

 

[Ich Bin Awesome]

Link's turn? You finally reached top tier, huh?

Well, before everyone starts harping on the whole poor recovery thing I'll just put it out there. Yes, Link is a gimp magnet and his recovery sucks. He's bottom tier for a reason. That being said, most good Links stay away from the edge at all cost and work on stage control from the center of the stage.

Anyway, I think Deva pretty much nailed the matchup so I think you can use this as your starting point:

G&W goes 60/40 with Link. Link's non bucketable projectiles, u-air that goes through G&W's dair , zair that goes through his bair and jabs that space everything else G&W has give him enough of an edge so he doesnt get destroyed. But Link sucks, and G&W is top tier, so when it comes down to it, 60/40, G&W's favor.

 

[Oddler]

It's better to self-destruct 3 times before going up against Link. Srsly. Mind games yo.

J/k

Deva said everything I wanted to say in that post.

 

[HeroMystic]

Deva basically said it.

Link spaces the hell outta G&W, but once G&W gets inside it's pretty rough. Add on the fact that G&W's KO power is massive and Link's recovery sucks, he won't last too long.

But as I said, Link spaces the hell outta G&W.

60/40 or 55/45 GW.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Link doesn't last very long against G&W and G&W lasts pretty long against Link because Link is pretty terrible at scoring KOs. His smashes are not strong enough and fairly easy to Bucket Brake most of the time, and his D-air is situational.

A weak hit from F-air or B-air is all it takes to gimp Link, or a stagespike from D-air or even a hit from a D-air offstage at low percents.

A good Link can indeed control a lot of space and make things frustrating, but Link doesn't have nearly as good of follow ups as G&W. G&W has VERY good follow ups once he gets a hit in, and Link is easily gimped.

Watch the beginning of this match. I suicide and sandbag some time later, but this is the way the matchup goes for me. Keep in mind Finns7 is a good Link player. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gU_ZhBB8KA

65/35 G&W at least.

 

[HeroMystic]

WiFi is a terrible way to judge a Link player. >_> Finns7 didn't even use the Z-air properly half the time, and he practically gimped himself twice in that match by fast-falling and not using his tether.

Link is very good at scoring KOs. I dunno how effective is bucket-braking, but Link can KO well into 120% with U-tilt, F-Smash, F-tilt, D-Smash, or Up-B.

The ONLY reason why this is in G&W advantage is purely because Link is easy to gimp. That's not enough to make it 65/35.

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W has better combos and approaches and can punish the ending lag of a bunch of Link's stuff. Link doesn't have many answers to G&W's shield pressure game if the G&W knows how to do it right. With good DI and Bucket Braking, G&W should survive to about 140% against Link unless Link gets a KO with a D-air since all of his attacks are just not strong enough to be good for KOing (and by the way, if G&W is living to 120% against anyone they're probably getting *****). Link has slightly more range on a few attacks yes but he can't stay completely safe in this matchup.

Link can be hit out of his tether by G&W's D-air edgeguard.

G&W by far edgeguards Link harder than most characters and CAN approach him in a few circumstances, and once he does get in, Link doesn't have many options to get him out.

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

Ok I havent fought many opponents that hasnt been 3-stock ****(because my freinds cant play). So my knowledge is based on lurking at your boards. so I try to keep it to plane facts as much as possible.

link is the worst character on wifi, he need to be very precise sometimes and wifi just kills that. the lag kills link most of the time, not your gimp game. watch some offline link matches. you will see very big diffrence.(and please tell what offline matches you watched so we know that you know exactly what a good link is capable of, it helps the discussion)

link rarely hangs from his tether, we use it to quickly get back to the stage before you can edgeguard us, otherwise its often, double jump bomb pull, rang toss, Up B. (link can gimp to if your not careful, hahaha)

could you be more precise in how link is limited when gaw has get through his defence, link is NOT slow if played correctly.(once again watch some offline link matches). Im curious actually.

in that vid I saw a clean KO at 140% with links fsmash and almost a KO from link dsmash at 104% and links fair at 118%. link has many kill moves which makes at least one of the fresh all the time. Fsmash, Dsmash, Ftilt, utilt, fair(second hit), dair, uair, UP B are all very good finishers depending on situation, opponent and how fresh they are. + I have never noticed my moves ever going stale.

link can spam gaw, all his projectiles are bucket safe, but we maybe is past that point in the discussion.

so all in all it is

spam: link can spam, gaw cannot, enough said

approach and spacing: link dont need to approach and has a good defence with highpriority longrange moves, but can gaw aproach pretty well and has not bad priority and range.

gimp, recovery and kills: gaw gimps easier and both has very good KO moves, but a good link should be able to avoid most gimp kills and link is heavier

sheild and dodge: link has a fast long range grab that means he can sheild grab all(if not, atleast almost all) attacks. gaw has not very good range on his grab which means that link is pretty safe when hitting his sheild. both are crappy rollers but good spot dodgers, both has punishment for both spotdodging and rolling. link has better SHAD because of his fall speed.

EDIT: something i have missed?

 

[Legan]

From my experience from playing Needle of Juntah Id say it's 60-40 G&W. Im pretty sure Noj is a well respected player or at least should be because hes so **** good. Noj had basically no Idea how to approach me and that can throw off alot of G&W players because approaching is what they do best. Proper spacing and projectile spam allows link to get G&W into killing range easily which is about 90-110%. Link has so many kill moves its rediculous, the only problem is G&W ability to Gimp and that crazy strong upsmash and dsmash. If the link is downsmashed at even a slightly high percentage than hell more than likely be pushed off the stage far enough to where he cant recover, and it comes out so fast that he probably wont DI it correctly. G&W also has alot of aerial priority that can be a nuisance but nothing that cant be beaten by a well placed U-fair, Dair, or Second hit of fair. Jab cancelling also wreck G&W because hes so light he can be easily jab juggled.

I lost to Noj in the third match getting him to 1stock 60+%, that was also my first fight against a G&W, the matchup is not very hard if you play smart.

 

[Tero.]

I played a few Links, including Izaw. Basically it's just like GaW is top tier and Link is bottom lol.
However he does better than a few other low/bottom tier character because he can camp gw (and gaw can't bucket links projectiles), link still has a bad recovery and get's gimped like hell as mentioned above.

60/40 in favor of G&W

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

i agree with link, 60-40,

also, i agree with game and watch, 70-30, or 65-35 for luigi

Just ban Haliberd xD

 

[Bomber7]

I agree with 60/40 with G&W I think what mainly gets link is his bad recovery. From experience I fear G&W, he's fast and can kill at low %'s. You dont mess with G&W. All G&W has to do is get link at an appropriate %, knock him off the ledge and Link is done for.

 

[Deleted member]

you're all smoking something, its not 60/40 G&W at most its 50:50

we have tons of things that totally destroy/counter anything you do. if you bair we'll zair, a properly spaced fsmash destroys your entire ground game just like marth's dtilt. G&W is so light that if you mess up DI at all you die from the dair/fsmash/dsmash at 100%. if you try to drop below the stage to recover we'll just drop a bomb and then dair your face, creating a wall that will **** you up. you can't bucket our projectiles meaning we can camp the **** out of you. if you try that uair juggle/ up b > dair bull**** we'll nair to out prioritize your up b, and we'll usmash oos to punish the dair. the bair isnt even a problem to us while we're recovering because we'll just DI out of it, and the fair can be DI'd also. if we get you in a jab lock you're pretty much ****ed because G&W is super easy to jab lock. your only kill moves on us will be the fsmash and dsmash which i'll say are pretty beast kill moves but the only time you can connect with the usmash is if you tech chase us from the dthrow and the only time you will hit us with the fsmash is if we **** up our spacing or if you get get a crazy set up. don't try to CP us norfair because we'll kill you at 60% with the dair, and if you CP green greens we'll **** you up with the ftilt/fsmash/dair at super low %'s, RC is also out of the question because thats also a great stage for link, all the platforms let us camp you hardcore.

this match is in no way in G&W's favor

 

[Finns7]

Guys seriously that match doesnt show the matchup in any way, I wasnt playing wifi regularly at the time so i was testing out the sh zair. A2 like you said also you where sandbagging as you see in the SD you had. Link requires alot of practice espeacially online, if your not precise you lose a stock like you saw in the missed ledge grabs when I was trying to recover.

Anyway, we all know the gimp, light wieght parts of the matchups for both so there is no point in stating anythng like that. I dont think Gaw is that hard of a matchup mainly because we have something to counter some of the main things he throws at us.

 

[HeroMystic]

As said before, it's only in G&W's favor because Link is easy to gimp. You take that out of the equation and this match-up would be in Link's favor. Meaning if you CP stages like Norfair, Brinstar, Delfino Plaza, Pirate Ship, and Rainbow Cruise, the match-up easily switches to Link's favor.

 

[Ruuku]

link can spam gaw, all his projectiles are bucket safe, but we maybe is past that point in the discussion.

so all in all it is

spam: link can spam, gaw cannot, enough said

You may want to take a look at this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169446

Yeah...

 

[cutter]

Time to multiquote this **** because it's a conglomerated mess.

you're all smoking something, its not 60/40 G&W at most its 50:50

kk. Whatever you say.

we have tons of things that totally destroy/counter anything you do. if you bair we'll zair

Zair does not shut down GW's Bair. It is basically a nuisance. GW can still Bair intelligently; it's not like his Bair is disabled or something like that.

a properly spaced fsmash destroys your entire ground game just like marth's dtilt.

Link's Fsmash does not hit on frame 7 nor does it have IASA frames like Marth's Dtilt.

G&W is so light that if you mess up DI at all you die from the dair/fsmash/dsmash at 100%.

GW kills the majority of cast below 90 with his smashes if they have bad DI. Your point?

And yet... bucket braking also helps to salvage GW's stocks and help him live longer than what he normally dies.

if you try to drop below the stage to recover we'll just drop a bomb and then dair your face, creating a wall that will **** you up.

Now I now you're just pulling random stuff out of your ***. GW cannot be edgeguarded in any true way by Link. GW has aerials that can block projectiles, a Uair that BLOWS away bombs and Dair attempts, and GW's up B has invincibility frames and auto-sweetspots the edge. Good luck trying to edgeguard GW.

you can't bucket our projectiles meaning we can camp the **** out of you.

A bit exaggerated I might say. True, GW cannot bucket the projectiles obviously, but GW can also use his disjointed hitboxes to block projectiles and his up B is a fantastic evasive move OoS.

You should also refer to the link Ruuku posted above this post.

if you try that uair juggle/ up b > dair bull**** we'll nair to out prioritize your up b,

How are you going to outprioritize a move that is BOTH invincible and has a vortex hitbox when executed?

and we'll usmash oos to punish the dair.

I don't think GW will be using Dair liberally against a character that can beat it with a good amount of attacks except maybe from a footstool.

the bair isnt even a problem to us while we're recovering because we'll just DI out of it

Wait, since when does GW edgeguard with Bair again?

and the fair can be DI'd also.

You'll still be off the stage, and since Link falls fast compared to the rest of the cast, he's still going to be susceptible to more edgeguarding from the likes of Fair (both the power hit and the sex kick), slowfall Dair, and Up B.

if we get you in a jab lock you're pretty much ****ed because G&W is super easy to jab lock.

To set up a jab lock, you need hitstun, and Brawl has very little of that. Teching also negates any kind of jab lock whatsoever. Oh and before you say anything, teching is very easy to do.

your only kill moves on us will be the fsmash and dsmash which i'll say are pretty beast kill moves but the only time you can connect with the usmash is if you tech chase us from the dthrow and the only time you will hit us with the fsmash is if we **** up our spacing or if you get get a crazy set up.

There's also Fair, which is another great KO move. It can also be used to get Link off the stage, and we all know how he's in deep **** when offstage.

You can also punish Link with smashes if he makes a mistake somehow. Low blockstun allows this kind of thing in Brawl.

don't try to CP us norfair because we'll kill you at 60% with the dair

Why CP Norfair when there are so many better GW CP stages available?

and if you CP green greens we'll **** you up with the ftilt/fsmash/dair at super low %'s

GW can also abuse low blastzones as well.

RC is also out of the question because thats also a great stage for link, all the platforms let us camp you hardcore.

I'm sorry, I just don't feel like responding to that.

this match is in no way in G&W's favor

Link definately has ways to get around what GW does, but GW also has ways to get around what Link does as well.

Link falls like an anvil compared to the rest of the cast and that is a HUGE problem in this matchup when GW can go far offstage and gimp Link in a numerous amount of attempts such as Fair, slowfall Dair, and up B. GW is just a better character than Link, and the tier list reflects that statement quite accurately.

Thank you for expressing your sentiments in a huge eye-straining wall of text. Have a nice day.

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah, im sorry arkive, i listen to what the other link players have to say, but your post seems so incredibly biased and uninformed, i can't take much of it seriously. If link really beats gw so hard, then why doesn't he beat mk too, i mean you can dair his up b, and you can camp him so hard with your projectiles? you've taken then concept of theory crafting a little too far.

 

[Deleted member]

yeah, im sorry arkive, i listen to what the other link players have to say, but your post seems so incredibly biased and uninformed, i can't take much of it seriously.

i've posted what i've learned from all the tournies i've been to, isn't the midwest known for its G&W's?

If link really beats gw so hard, then why doesn't he beat mk too, i mean you can dair his up b, and you can camp him so hard with your projectiles?.

Link is screwed by MK more than G&W because MK is faster than G&W, has a better recovery than G&W, can gimp link easier than G&W and can get through link's defense easier than G&W.

i do use the dair to get through MK's up b and MK is hard to camp because he's got really good approaches.

Zair does not shut down GW's Bair. It is basically a nuisance. GW can still Bair intelligently; it's not like his Bair is disabled or something like that.

never said you couldn't bair, i'm just saying if you bair we'll out range it with a zair.

Link's Fsmash does not hit on frame 7 nor does it have IASA frames like Marth's Dtilt.

yea but we can craq walk into it and we get two hits

GW kills the majority of cast below 90 with his smashes if they have bad DI. Your point?

my point is we'll have no problem killing you, A2Zomg said we have terrible kill moves

Now I now you're just pulling random stuff out of your ***. GW cannot be edgeguarded in any true way by Link. GW has aerials that can block projectiles, a Uair that BLOWS away bombs and Dair attempts, and GW's up B has invincibility frames and auto-sweetspots the edge. Good luck trying to edgeguard GW.

this technique works on MK, just saying

How are you going to outprioritize a move that is BOTH invincible and has a vortex hitbox when executed?

the nair has really good priority and the invincibility doesnt last the entire time

Wait, since when does GW edgeguard with Bair again?

look at what A2Zomg said

To set up a jab lock, you need hitstun, and Brawl has very little of that. Teching also negates any kind of jab lock whatsoever. Oh and before you say anything, teching is very easy to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e291cu7khzE&feature=channel_page

a lot of these set ups aren't viable at all, but there are still enough set ups that we could use to put you into a jab lock. yea ik that teching is super easy, thats why i look for situations where you don't tech to set up jab locks.

ik that link is trash and that G&W is good, but thats no reason why link can't have an even match up with G&W.

 

[_Phloat_]

i've posted what i've learned from all the tournies i've been to, isn't the midwest known for its G&W's?

Even if an area is known for a character, that doesn't mean the players there know what the hell they are doing.


Link is screwed by MK more than G&W because MK is faster than G&W, has a better recovery than G&W, can gimp link easier than G&W and can get through link's defense easier than G&W.

I agree =[

i do use the dair to get through MK's up b and MK is hard to camp because he's got really good approaches.

MK's SL is a LOT different than our parachute. His only has invincible frames when it is grounded, in the air he carries just range and priority (and speed and power >=[

never said you couldn't bair, i'm just saying if you bair we'll out range it with a zair.

You mean if we bair right at you from a SH. I don't always bair horizontally, I like to fall from the air and bair shields, while there are answers to this it you will have to mix it up more than "zair when he bairs"



yea but we can craq walk into it and we get two hits

2 HITS?!?!. Our smashes are still insanely strong and neigh unpunishable.



my point is we'll have no problem killing you, A2Zomg said we have terrible kill moves

A2's point was what you have, we have in spades. Sure you can kill us, but we can kill you. Just because you are good at it (IDK if link is) doesn't mean that GaW isn't better.

this technique works on MK, just saying

Ja, but MK's SL doesn't have invincibility frames.

the nair has really good priority and the invincibility doesnt last the entire time

But with good timing we are gonna use the invincibility to its fullest...

look at what A2Zomg said



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e291cu7khzE&feature=channel_page

a lot of these set ups aren't viable at all, but there are still enough set ups that we could use to put you into a jab lock. yea ik that teching is super easy, thats why i look for situations where you don't tech to set up jab locks.

ik that link is trash and that G&W is good, but thats no reason why link can't have an even match up with G&W.

Not gonna comment on the jablock things, I never see those in real matches between good players =B