Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[PolMex23]

k azzz

50 at genesiis

hylians strat is to confuse u by thinkin hes open when hes not by doing a bunch of "random" attacks

Yea but 50$ Mm for the guy who plays mario an thinks he knows the Luigi vs GaW match up yay....

Omega ty xD, nah i knw your a chilll dude lets friendly if your there alot see how the match up is between top players

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yea but 50$ Mm for the guy who plays mario an thinks he knows the Luigi vs GaW match up yay....

I don't just use Mario. I use G&W to counterpick at tournament. I've also been one of the longest contributers to his metagame in Brawl.

I've also started really picking up my skills with Luigi in friendlies, so I really think I know the matchup well.

If you play me, expect to be bored. I'm already trying to stay awake thinking about the matchup. It's all spacing and staying away from Luigi for G&W and he can do it perfectly. If Luigi is the SLIGHTEST bit predictable in any approach he does, he gets punished (and unfortunately for Luigi, he is a fairly predictable approacher in general, not helping that going above G&W is out of the question for pretty much anyone). And if G&W really wants to he can avoid conflict by going to the ledge and Luigi is pretty bad at answering that. Not that anyone has a good answer to G&W's edgecamping lol.

 

[Gishnak]

k azzz

50 at genesiis

hylians strat is to confuse u by thinkin hes open when hes not by doing a bunch of "random" attacks

Yea but 50$ Mm for the guy who plays mario an thinks he knows the Luigi vs GaW match up yay....

Omega ty xD, nah i knw your a chilll dude lets friendly if your there alot see how the match up is between top players

I'm shooting to be at genesis, but regardless, this MM should be recorded for the lulz later. This should be interesting.

And as a gdubs that hasn't ever played an amazing luigi, it's hard for me to say, but I don't think it's 7:3. Maybe 65/35, but even though gdubs almost certainly has the advantage, I don't think luigi gets completely dominated. Again, not entirely sure. Are there any particularly competitive luigis? And have any good gdubs played against them? I don't know of any...

 

[PolMex23]

Just ask Omega

He had to get through BigLou than Boss....

Big Lou gave him more trouble than boss...all matches were pretty close...

But Boss should have beat him first...then he went **** lazy second match...

 

[VaJaJ]

That's because I'm not trying to hit him with all my moves LOL. Try doing that to a good wario and have fun being 3 stocked. You HAVE to bait wario and keep walls up to avoid punishment. You want to make them push past your wall of attacks and spacing and earn that damage on you, because Wario kills GW FAST and GW can't take that punishment. Make your opponent work for the win, don't give it to them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess i set myself up for u guys to try to lecture me with my post, but all i'm going to say is that i never said u were doing anything wrong, i kno the Wario matchup pretty well and i'm a better G&W than u think i am.

Sorry and just disregard my last post cuz i hate when people try to lecture me on **** i already kno.

 

[Max Ketchum]

This post makes me think you don't have much experience in this match. Wario does great in the air against GW and get's most of his damage from baiting him there. Wario wants you to attack and move upwards and miss, so he can get free damage in. On the ground he isn't nearly as threatening as far as racking up % goes. Wario's not going to get much OOS very often because of GW's range.

They also don't kill each other fast. GW is great at racking up % in this match but it's REALLY hard for him to land KO moves against wario. Wario on the other hand has several reliable ways to kill GW from 100-120% while GW often finds himself stuggling to kill wario at over 150%. It becomes exceptionally hard to kill them when you know they have a strong waft ready, because if you miss once you take MAJOR punishment and GW cannot afford that being one of the lightest characters in the game.

I don't have much (any) experience in that match, and I CLEARLY stated that a few posts back. That's why I add "I think" or "It's possible" after I state something, because I'm not exactly sure of it. All of the stuff I've been contributing to this discussion has been pure theory, and I made that a point before I started saying anything.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I actually have decent Luigi experience IRL.

My friend InsomniaK seconds Luigi, and I've played his Luigi a bunch.

I gotta bring my SD card for those replays lol. $50 sounds like a bit much you'd say? You seem pretty confident PolMex. I'd personally set it at just $10 since I don't know how much money I want to carry...just saying.

 

[_Phloat_]

OH, HES BACKPEDLIN, HES ON THE RUN

>_>

50$ is way too much for a MM though, srsly.

 

[omegablackmage]

alright i think most of us agree on a 5/5 for sure. lets move on

 

[cutter]

I would agree with 5/5 for Wario.

OH, HES BACKPEDLIN, HES ON THE RUN

>_>

50$ is way too much for a MM though, srsly.

Really?

How about a $100 money match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qJc7gQXZnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLV4Py4krCs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fA9YKDEAY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUsb8FXtFSo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RolyIiN-QE&feature=related

And considering it's from the smash twins I just had to bring this up

 

[A2ZOMG]

Olimar....

6/4 G&W.

Really, Olimar just doesn't have enough options to keep up the pressure. Yeah, he'll camp and camp, but you can fan it away and take almost no damage at all. As long as you don't do anything incredibly hasty, he can't do much that's incredibly safe either except run away until he's cornered.

Up-smash is risky for Olimar in this matchup. If he's smarter, he'll try to U-air when you're above, but that will leave him in a bad position if you avoid it.

Nicking him with autocanceled N-airs is the safest approach on his shield as you can jump out of the way before you land, or if you see him whiff something when you jumped, = free D-air.

D-throw is good against him even if he techs, since he can be regrabbed or chased with other attacks like DA or even F-air. Of course, if he doesn't tech consistently, you'll want to get the F-smash or D-smash on him at high percents.

Good vid of this matchup.

And btw I dunno, unless I can convince my mom otherwise, I'd probably only bring $100 for money matches. I mean, I really want to make sure I can pay for all of the ones I have if I lose. $50 would be half of my money right off the bat assuming I lose. =/

 

[DMG]

I don't think G&W beats Olimar anymore. Nair gets wrecked by Usmash and Fair and even Utilt lol.

I think it's either even, or Olimar's favor. He almost reminds me of Diddy, you have the same approaching issues vs Olimar.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Olimar doesn't have anything that stops you from moving.

He can't approach for crap either and he's one of those characters where he can't afford to make a mistake as he gets punished for mistakes.

U-smash doesn't wreck N-air unless he perfectly predicts it, otherwise he will eat the hit from the autocanceled version if he drops his shield. Up-smash can't be spammed by Olimar for the simple fact that it has terrible priority and an Olimar that gets too reliant on Up-smash gets punished by D-air. F-air and U-tilt suffer similar issues to a lesser degree since they involve Olimar dropping his shield to do something which means take a risk. If you N-air his shield he's not punishing you easily since it autocancels into a jump.

 

[PolMex23]

I actually have decent Luigi experience IRL.

My friend InsomniaK seconds Luigi, and I've played his Luigi a bunch.

I gotta bring my SD card for those replays lol. $50 sounds like a bit much you'd say? You seem pretty confident PolMex. I'd personally set it at just $10 since I don't know how much money I want to carry...just saying.

OH, HES BACKPEDLIN, HES ON THE RUN

>_>

50$ is way too much for a MM though, srsly.

I would agree with 5/5 for Wario.



Really?

How about a $100 money match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qJc7gQXZnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLV4Py4krCs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fA9YKDEAY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUsb8FXtFSo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RolyIiN-QE&feature=related

And considering it's from the smash twins I just had to bring this up

50$ to much? Its not marvel but It aint no kids game any more...

K Cutter, you have a 100$ MM at genesis, see yah there.

Lol i just saw the vids...i posted before watching them...

I smell a hint of sarcasm xD

 

[DMG]

Lol Usmash will beat the key unless you hit the pikmin with the key clearly before it hits G&W.

Utilt also is a pain to get around.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Lol Usmash will beat the key unless you hit the pikmin with the key clearly before it hits G&W.

This is the DUMBEST THING you have ever said. WOOOOOOOOOOOOW. Not only did you say something wrong, you proved yourself wrong in the process.

I really shouldn't have to explain...Olimar's Pikmin becomes vulnerable as soon as he starts up Up-smash. It goes from the ground straight upwards. If there is any hitbox in the way, it loses.

I mean hell, you don't need anything fancy to beat Olimar's U-smash. Mario or Luigi's N-air beat it 100% of the time. <_<

Utilt also is a pain to get around.

His SHIELD is a bigger pain to get around and probably the thing he's going to be doing besides tossing Pikmin if he wants to be safe. If he's U-tilting a lot I can get in shieldgrabs or B-airs.

Olimar can't threaten G&W like Diddy can. He is also one of those characters that takes punishment significantly worse than G&W.

 

[DMG]

This is the DUMBEST THING you have ever said. WOOOOOOOOOOOOW. Not only did you say something wrong, you proved yourself wrong in the process.

I really shouldn't have to explain...Olimar's Pikmin becomes vulnerable as soon as he starts up Up-smash. It goes from the ground straight upwards. If there is any hitbox in the way, it loses.

I mean hell, you don't need anything fancy to beat Olimar's U-smash. Mario or Luigi's N-air beat it 100% of the time. <_<

His SHIELD is a bigger pain to get around and probably the thing he's going to be doing besides tossing Pikmin if he wants to be safe. If he's U-tilting a lot I can get in shieldgrabs or B-airs.

Olimar can't threaten G&W like Diddy can. He is also one of those characters that takes punishment significantly worse than G&W.

Lol. Let ME explain, since you obviously didn't understand my explanation.

Olimar's Pikmin usually have a disjointed Hitbox around them. It's kinda like Marth swinging his sword, and then that sword swinging another tiny sword. If a hitbox hits the pikmin BEFORE the disjointed part hits the opponent, then the Pikmin will usually clank or just fly completely away depending on the move that hits the Pikmin and what move you use as Olimar.

If you Key, your Key has to reach and hit his Pikmin before his Pikmin's hitbox reaches you. On some of them, like the Yellow Pikmin for example, their horizontal reach is so great that unless you Dair specifically over the Pikmin the hitbox will clip you from the side.

As for Uair, occasionally you will have an attack stop one hitbox of the Pikmin and then have the other hitboxs proceed to hit. Sometimes you will go through him fast enough and hit him before the pikmin activates another hitbox, and other times you will hit it and the rest of the hitboxs will be disabled.

Also if you are trying to Dair him, what stops him from running and pivot grabbing you or even shielding and then punishing?

 

[furiousduffmanx]

Olimar is such a pain to me... its even hard to approach with turtle. Olimar can kill us early with no chance of bucket braking. by the time my nair finishes to get pikmin off of me there is already one on me. I just think it is very very hard when he camps perfectly.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Lol. Let ME explain, since you obviously didn't understand my explanation.

Olimar's Pikmin usually have a disjointed Hitbox around them. It's kinda like Marth swinging his sword, and then that sword swinging another tiny sword. If a hitbox hits the pikmin BEFORE the disjointed part hits the opponent, then the Pikmin will usually clank or just fly completely away depending on the move that hits the Pikmin and what move you use as Olimar.

If you Key, your Key has to reach and hit his Pikmin before his Pikmin's hitbox reaches you. On some of them, like the Yellow Pikmin for example, their horizontal reach is so great that unless you Dair specifically over the Pikmin the hitbox will clip you from the side.

As for Uair, occasionally you will have an attack stop one hitbox of the Pikmin and then have the other hitboxs proceed to hit. Sometimes you will go through him fast enough and hit him before the pikmin activates another hitbox, and other times you will hit it and the rest of the hitboxs will be disabled.

Also if you are trying to Dair him, what stops him from running and pivot grabbing you or even shielding and then punishing?

His Up-smash is pretty telegraphed. He's only going to use it to hit something directly above him. You have a window to simply watch what he's doing if he runs under you and if he Up-smashes, you can punish since it takes some time for the Pikmin to reach full height and then go back to Olimar. If he tries to go behind you for a pivot grab, you can probably just punish with B-air most of the time.

The case you're mentioning is Olimar barely outspacing G&W. His Up-smash loses directly to G&W's D-air. It's not like G&W can't DI to space his D-air against the incredibly linear hitbox of the U-smash.

Seriously, get your words straight. <_<

Olimar can't punish D-air out of shield if you land behind him. This isn't impossible to do since you get to DI the D-air. You actually have the advantage in this position and can Jab or grab him before most of his stuff comes out.

 

[DMG]

lol you are at a frame disadvantage even if you land behind him.

Also his Usmash is not very telegraphed, only the hitboxs are. It comes out in like 9 frames I think, it's like Wario's Fsmash lol. Most of Olimar's moves are not telegraphed in the sense that they come out either so fast or have very subtle animation changes before the move strikes.

 

[A2ZOMG]

-5 frame disadvantage for D-air is REALLY low. Low to the point where you get to Jab before most of his stuff comes out.

The only way you punish that is by shieldgrabbing. Like seriously.

The initial hitbox may be frame 9, but it takes longer for the Pikmin to reach full height, and there is also the ending lag. You can mix up your spacing with midair jumps and punish his Up-smash. Really, his Up-smash is pretty bad in this matchup. U-air is superior in almost every situation for it. <_<

Like seriously, the only time you really have to worry about his Up-smash is when you're on a platform (where it's safe) but you can jump out of shield to get away from that.

 

[cutter]

50$ to much? Its not marvel but It aint no kids game any more...

K Cutter, you have a 100$ MM at genesis, see yah there.

Lol i just saw the vids...i posted before watching them...

I smell a hint of sarcasm xD

Err... I didn't want a $100 MM myself. I was just showing the set between the Smash twins where they did have an actual $100 MM.

I just think it is very very hard when he camps perfectly.

Can people stop bringing up this "perfect camping" garbage?

 

[A2ZOMG]

In theory, if Olimar didn't make any mistakes, he could perfectly camp pretty much anyone including G&W. That I can see.

However, the margin of error for him is pretty small. Not just because he dies easily, but because any misstep he takes has significantly punishable lag.

G&W has much more room for error in this matchup since he doesn't get gimped. Granted Olimar can KO him at rather low percents, but G&W can KO really early too, and edgeguard him. Olimar doesn't have a significant enough advantage in dealing damage to make up for this. He usually compensates for damage by Pikmin camping, which doesn't work well on characters who can fan it away easily like G&W.

 

[LouBega]

i think this is even or a little in olimar's favor. olimar is super hard to approach without getting grabbed. and you do have to approach. a2 is right, g&w is good at getting pikmin away, but that doesn't mean you can do it the entire match. your are going to get hit. best bet is to work on his shield, so eventually you can hit him with turtle or nair or something and pop him into the air. anytime he's in the air take advantage of it, but he'll probably just whistle your nair or something and plant himself on the ground again. when i get grabs i like to mix dthrow and upthrow. upthrow can lead to good damage and down throw can lead to dsmash or regrab.

when he's off the edge you can usually keep him off pretty well. but i hate when i run off and fair him and he whistles through it

ban fd or luigi's, they're both terrible and you'll probably lose on either. take him to rainbow cruise or japes or something. port town if it's legal! don't go to corneria, even though it's really good for you it won't give you the advantage you want, since it's great for him. i wouldn't go to frigate either. the first part is great but the second part sucks since olimar will just camp in the middle.

 

[Hylian]

There is no such thing as perfect camping. You just beat olimars camping by advancing slowly and using stage position to gain an advantage. Olimar can't camp well at the edge.

 

[DMG]

lol u make it sound too easy to beat Olimar. He's a hard character to corner.

 

[Hylian]

lol u make it sound too easy to beat Olimar. He's a hard character to corner.

Huh? Olimar is hard as **** to beat. What I posted had nothing to do with the match-up ratio lmao. I was just pointing out that perfect camping doesn't exist due to stage positioning. Can't move backwards forever, and that means you have to cross your opponent at some point.

 

[DMG]

Oh, lol perfect camping doesn't involve just pivot grabs though (at least my thoughts on it, maybe other people think that?). My idea of it is knowing when to Usmash, Fsmash, Grab, Pivot grab, Utilt, shield, sit in one spot and do nothing, etc. Which unfortunately once an Olimar gets good enough at that he would be near unstoppable.

 

[Hylian]

Oh, lol perfect camping doesn't involve just pivot grabs though (at least my thoughts on it, maybe other people think that?). My idea of it is knowing when to Usmash, Fsmash, Grab, Pivot grab, Utilt, shield, sit in one spot and do nothing, etc. Which unfortunately once an Olimar gets good enough at that he would be near unstoppable.

Where does the "Perfect" come in? You can apply what you said to any character. Of course if you could react to everything correctly it would be perfect, but that is impossible.

"Perfect Camping" is a silly term that shoudn't be applied to anything in smash.

 

[DMG]

Ok, it is now dubbed "Olimar Camping".

Better than perfect camping lol.

 

[K@0S]

55-45 GW, would have been 45-55 or 4-6 Oli if he wasn't so weak offstage.

Olimar is very hard to approach on the ground mainly because of shieldgrabs, pivot grabs and his Usmash (especially when his next pikmin is yellow, and if you like the nair/bair (+ jump or not if you dair) + another aerial, know that he can often Usmash oos between the two, and even more often if it's a yellow pikmin, so you should almost always use up-b as your second attack).

Appoach carefully, use fakeouts, Nair and Dtilt to get rid of pikmins (but be careful because his grab beats your Dtilt). Pressure him, you want him to go back, and once he reached the ledge, he will have to do something dangerous because he is in a bad position for two reasons : he can't pivotgrab and he can be sent offstage even with a weak attack, which often means death. You must shine at this moment (and once he is in the air/offstage indeed).

If you are sent in the air and Oli follows you, Dair except if you are facing the wrong side (otherwise his Uair can go through it). You shouldn't use Dair on Olimar when he is on the ground for various reasons.

Aggresive olimars are a hell easier..

 

[xYz]

hey Jordan, remember that one time when u claimed you could **** any olimar??


good times.

 

[Olimarman]

Ok, I personally don't see too much trouble coming Olimar's way in this matchup, but this sure isn't an easy one. Watch out for latches, especially whites. Even with good DI, a fresh purple usmash will kill gw no sweat by 70 max, if not earlier, and a white pikmin could be a potential 20 of the 70 damage. Theoretically, gw can kill Olimar earlier, but grabs and latches just win this. I read over what you guys said about Olimar. Oli's uair will always outhit the key provided its a direct hit. A full shield can survive a turtle and punish via grab, as can key and fair. You need to outsmart Olimar here to win, but I really think Olimar has this 55-45. But dthrow->dsmash is too good...

 

[Hylian]

hey Jordan, remember that one time when u claimed you could **** any olimar??


good times.

I never lost to Fearless with my GW, it was my IC's he beat haha .

And yes Will, those were the days haha.

 

[_Phloat_]

I am pretty sure a perfectly spaced turtle can't be punished by olimar.

 

[jog]

I am pretty sure a perfectly spaced turtle can't be punished by olimar.

idk olimar's grab range is just ridiculous

and lol at A2Z saying that olimar has significantly punishable lag.
almost none of his moves have bad lag. except maybe a SH dair >_>
and i don't see where you get that his up-smash is "telegraphed" it hits on frame 8...

 

[Cook]

i think this is even or a little in olimar's favor. olimar is super hard to approach without getting grabbed. and you do have to approach. a2 is right, g&w is good at getting pikmin away, but that doesn't mean you can do it the entire match. your are going to get hit. best bet is to work on his shield, so eventually you can hit him with turtle or nair or something and pop him into the air. anytime he's in the air take advantage of it, but he'll probably just whistle your nair or something and plant himself on the ground again. when i get grabs i like to mix dthrow and upthrow. upthrow can lead to good damage and down throw can lead to dsmash or regrab.

when he's off the edge you can usually keep him off pretty well. but i hate when i run off and fair him and he whistles through it

ban fd or luigi's, they're both terrible and you'll probably lose on either. take him to rainbow cruise or japes or something. port town if it's legal! don't go to corneria, even though it's really good for you it won't give you the advantage you want, since it's great for him. i wouldn't go to frigate either. the first part is great but the second part sucks since olimar will just camp in the middle.

ur jus not good, lolimar sux

 

[Zori]

i have no idea how to fight g&w :"! i cant really comment

 

[Clash_X]

Sexy <3 Just ditch GW and we can be best friends.

impossible, were best friends...

 

[Cook]

This match-up is really stage dependent; I would say Oli has the advantage on most (maybe all) of the neutrals.

G&W d-throw>d-smash is not a viable kill move because any good Olimar will tech it 90% of the time; we're assuming the two players are at the top of the meta-game and know the match-up, right? D-throw>re-grab works if you predict the Oli's roll. D-throw>up-smash CAN work if the you charge it and the Oli spot-dodges, but Oli can get the shield up before G&W can up-smash. Of course, aerials can work as well, but you have to predict the roll. Really, G&W is best off up-throwing most of the time because once he gets Oli in the air he can ****.

Be careful with your turtle; Oli can often SDI up out of it and then drop a n-air>up-smash on G&W. I think that it depends on which part of the turtle you hit Oli with, it is easier to SDI out if Oli isn't right in the middle of the turtle.

Whoever said up-smash beats key is wrong. Up-smash does not beat key.

Oli can run under you and up-smash VERY quickly; if you are just outside of Oli's grab range be careful when you jump, Oli can get under you before you know it.

Oli can actually edgeguard fairly well by running off the stage and f-airing, so watch out for that; the Oli may try to surprise you with it. Speaking of edge-guarding, Oli can grab you from off the ledge once your invincibility is gone.

That's all I've got for right now...