Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[Noa.]

Dair only works to punish a telegraphed usmash of Olimar.

 

[Ruuku]

I think that Olimar is a tough match but playing on a stage with a lot of platforms can disturb his game. Precisely, I think that platforms allow G&W to moves around, dodge attacks better, and attack from different angles with aerials. I think this is true for most matchups against characters playing a defensive projectile game. This seems to be a bit less efficient against Falco and Pit but those characters can be dealt with other strategies.

 

[DMG]

I told you guys Olimar was hard lol.

I think it's 6:4 overall, maybe 55:45. Some stages Olimar loses bad on, while others he clearly wins. Starter stages are all in his favor.

 

[Ruuku]

I told you guys Olimar was hard lol.

I think it's 6:4 overall, maybe 55:45. Some stages Olimar loses bad on, while others he clearly wins. Starter stages are all in his favor.

Really? I usually do well against Olimar on BF.

 

[DMG]

Olimar on Battlefield is REALLY HARD to approach if they sit under the platforms. Makes it harder for G&W to try and mix up his approaches with double jumps, fast falling, and airdodges. It's easier to kinda run away from him with the platforms, but if he waits for you to land you can have some issues.

 

[A2ZOMG]

SH N-air is a really good mixup approach on Olimar since you get to do stuff before you land. Allows you to jump over his ground game and punish something he whiffed. You also get to jump away or D-air immediately after. N-air is one of your most important attacks in this matchup anyway since you will use it to deflect his pikmin too, so do something like predict a pikmin toss, N-air, and get him.

I think the matchup is clearly in G&W's favor on BF and SV.

Being able to run away from Olimar from an aerial position is a big deal (he can't grab you), and he doesn't really get any of that vs G&W. You can still do SH N-air tricks vs him on that stage and mess him up. Keep in mind...Olimar can't really do anything to you when you're on the platforms either...

SV is a similar story, just to a lesser extent, only the platform is such that it doesn't hinder you from doing fastfall tricks either.

G&W also has it significantly better on counterpick stages in terms of number that Olimar is horrible on (vs G&W).

So it's a close matchup and stuff, but I am pretty certain that G&W has it better in terms of stages...it's a hit or miss matchup I guess in many ways.

D-throw is good against Olimar even if he techs, since you can punish his techroll if you predict. Of course...make sure to U-throw him too.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

My only real problem against Olimar is his shield. (Just like Diddy, it covers him completly)

Other than that, SH N-Air/B-Air -> approach.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh yeah...another thing that might be worth knowing...his grab starts up a few frames slower than others...so I dunno...if those Olimars really like to shieldgrab after your B-air hits their shield...I guess you get a slightly bigger "surprise frame advantage" when you B-air cancel.

 

[Vinnie]

this may seem random, but on japes. on the left and right sides... if they try to ledgehop uair you through the platforms.... up b oos stage spikes them down LOL

and yeah, a2zomg, iirc olimar doesn't really have that big of a tech roll or roll... wouldn't dthrow be better than uthrow?

 

[Noa.]

But in the air is where G&W truly beats Olimar. A lot of the time you can get a lot of damage from nairs, uairs and UpB. It's very easy to damage Olimar in the air.

Dthrow is useful when you want to go for the kill or your confident on your ability to tech chase.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hell, getting a grab against Olimar is **** with G&W if you don't suck. You have so many options from a grab.

What I'd do just for free damage is D-throw -> techchase -> regrab -> Up-throw. I think you can also end the combo with techchase DA or F-air too which is good.

Japes ***** Olimar. In like everything. It ***** his recovery (water), and does a ton to help you survive against him, while due to aforementioned recovery ****, it does little to help him.

Also...even though Olimar can punish G&W hard for D-airing, it's still very valuable in this matchup. Beats his Up-smash...and can be done immediately after SH N-air to really mess with his mind. It's fairly safe from behind his shield if he's not prepared for it.

 

[DMG]

Dthrow is better vs Olimar. He is good on Japes too. SH Nair isn't very useful when Olimar is on the ground.

Dair is not a good move in this matchup. Best neutral for G&W is Lylat/PS1.

 

[A2ZOMG]

SH N-air is quite useful. It actually hits him when he's on the ground. The key is good spacing. It's the safest thing you can do to him while he shields and you can mix up a ton of stuff from that after it ends. It gives you an option to work around his shieldgrab too. Olimar usually punishes you when you hit the ground, but you can give him a problem by not hitting the ground and still being able to punish him.

Japes by far is better for G&W than it is for Olimar when he can't touch the water, and you can plank him from below the stage. Not to mention the huge size of the stage is more in G&W's favor.

Also, I really don't understand why you would go to Lylat against Olimar...BF is easily better by far. The swaying of the stage is more disruptive to G&W than it is for Olimar and the matchup is already heavily spacing dependent for G&W. Seriously, you don't seem to understand how important N-air is in this matchup.

Also...I'd rather get grabbed than get hit by his Up-smash, so if he likes using Up-smash a lot, that's why D-air is incredibly useful (if he tries to Up-air...you should probably just dodge it). Makes him think twice about spamming one of his kill moves. Not to mention you can D-air him from a SH N-air for mindgames.

Also, off-topic, but must be said: try shieldgrabbing Marth out of the third hit of DB. Just saying...it's possible. Well...of course, if you can, you'll want to Smash him out of shield, but you'll be less likely to be poked if you do this instead...

 

[furiousduffmanx]

OMG!!! thanks for realizing this match up is soooo hard, i tried telling everyone and everyone ignored me . I've been trying to beat error in this match-up for about 6 months and is just impossible. I can handle him on the first life but once he camps its done. Dont even have time to shake the pikmin off if i wanted to. Definitely 40-60 I just have to use wario to try to take him out. Maybe ill give it another try soon to see if i can help out in the match-up

 

[A2ZOMG]

You just have to be smarter about D-tilt and N-air in this matchup...he CAN'T punish D-tilt as long as you don't do anything stupid with it. Similar story with N-air, only you can also weave in with that to punish some of his stuff.

 

[GimR]

I think U-throw is better against Olimar. I played one two weeks ago(dot com) and every time I Up-threw him I got about 50% damage on him with U-Air stalling and n-airing.


Also if you up-B his Pikmen and don't kill them with it(the up-B), you'll shoot them in the air for about 10 seconds and he can't call them back or pick new ones out(if he has a full hand)

 

[cutter]

Also if you up-B his Pikmen and don't kill them with it(the up-B), you'll shoot them in the air for about 10 seconds and he can't call them back or pick new ones out(if he has a full hand)

I just did this last night once in a few friendlies and this is quite effective when pulled off. Even though it was like 1 in the morning I knew I did it for sure. It pretty much rendered Olimar helpless for a while; he tried down Bing the pikmin back but it didn't work.

The tricky part will be knowing how to do this consistently to an extent that it can really help us.

 

[DMG]

Dtilt vs Olimar... is a lot better on paper than it is in real gameplay.

If Olimar shields Dtilt, you are screwed. He can outrange you with his grabs, so really the only thing Dtilt is good for is to swat away his Pikmin in his other attacks. Aside from that, it doesn't do much.

SH Nair is also not really that good on Olimar, he can run under you before the Fish travel down the sides of the bowl and Usmash. He can also Upb depending on where he is positioned and flat out beat you with it. I've also seen Olimar get a bit gutsy and Fair JUST before G&W's Nair would cover him from the sides well and knock him away. It looks alright on paper, but it doesn't allow G&W to approach him any better than normally.

Also Japes does not mean Olimar is automatically dead if he hits the Water. Unless he hits the left side, he can recover just fine. Olimar is also a lot harder than normal to approach on Japes, the platform gets in the way more than it helps on the main part of the stage. The side platforms are a bit easier to approach him from since you can go under them well.

 

[White Out]

I think this match-up is honestly one of the easiest match-ups GaW has. It just comes down to pure knowledge of how Olimar works. I used to main Olimar and knowing his character inside and out made me see how easy this match up was. When i played olimar i based my set ups on what pikmin i had and there placement so watching an olimars pikmin is key

Knowing the properties of D-Syncing: Olimar often can loose his pikmin exposeing them to attacks many people don't know that you can force this and in GaW's case abuse it. If spaced correctly the N-airs pulling properties will D-Sync olimar from his pikmin and the best part about N-air is while d-syncing olimar from his pikmin it also kills the ones that try to re-sync

If you get what i am saying watch olimar's pikmin know what his options are and try to force D-syncing of his pikmin and keep him pikmin starved

Also depending on what pikmin did the down throw and what percent you are there is a way you can Di to a perfect spot were Olimar can't attack you i'll try to get my camera working to make a vid to show you guys

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dtilt vs Olimar... is a lot better on paper than it is in real gameplay.

If Olimar shields Dtilt, you are screwed. He can outrange you with his grabs, so really the only thing Dtilt is good for is to swat away his Pikmin in his other attacks. Aside from that, it doesn't do much.

Why would you do it in his shielding range? If you're in that range, you should probably Jab, grab, or get ready with an aerial.

The point is he can't punish it outside of that range. This allows you to camp him.

SH Nair is also not really that good on Olimar, he can run under you before the Fish travel down the sides of the bowl and Usmash. He can also Upb depending on where he is positioned and flat out beat you with it. I've also seen Olimar get a bit gutsy and Fair JUST before G&W's Nair would cover him from the sides well and knock him away. It looks alright on paper, but it doesn't allow G&W to approach him any better than normally.

What you do is you is basically N-air whenever he shields or whenever he's camping with Pikmin or of course when he whiffs something else and you have an opening to punish...he really shouldn't be given time to run around with impunity. It's all about your spacing honestly...there is a way to space outside of where he can punish you easily as long as you're careful.

 

[LuVr]

so whos the best G&W? would it be OBM?

 

[UTDZac]

so whos the best G&W? would it be OBM?

I'm pretty sure this type of question belongs in the "Ask a simple question, get a simple answer" thread.

But to answer your question now: We don't like ranking our G&W players. We don't have a list of who's the best. It's just not needed.

 

[LuVr]

Ok, a few things wrong here...

1. why not have some sort of recognition for those who excel above the rest with G&W? that makes no sense... Not to be mean but last time a checked people like Corey deserve the credit for being as good as they are, so yeah in terms of not needing it why not?

2. if my question was simple? why wasnt it answered... I myself am a G&W player so there must be some of us who are curious.. otherwise I wouldnt have posted... Not to be mean but thats just how I see it.

3. I love how people constantly yell when a simple question or post is out of place... I am not asking for much time or thought needed... just a general opinion... I see OBM posting these things and it seems that some G&W players are definitely more respected than others... almost nobody has ever heard of me, yet I have mained G&W since 5 weeks before brawl was even out in america...

 

[Ruuku]

Ok, a few things wrong here...

1. why not have some sort of recognition for those who excel above the rest with G&W? that makes no sense... Not to be mean but last time a checked people like Corey deserve the credit for being as good as they are, so yeah in terms of not needing it why not?

You would have to be able to measure every player's ability to know who excels above the rest. I'm pretty sure that is something pointless that most people wouldn't be willing to do. If anything, we do have a G&W discussion backroom that is made of G&W players that have contributed to the advancement of G&W's meta game. Also, wouldn't credit for being good be the prizes you win in tournaments or simply the fact that you are able to beat your opponents?

2. if my question was simple? why wasnt it answered... I myself am a G&W player so there must be some of us who are curious.. otherwise I wouldnt have posted... Not to be mean but thats just how I see it.

The answer to your question simply is a matter of opinion. The "Ask a simple question, get a simple answer" thread is the place where you can try to discuss that type of opinion.

3. I love how people constantly yell when a simple question or post is out of place... I am not asking for much time or thought needed... just a general opinion... I see OBM posting these things and it seems that some G&W players are definitely more respected than others... almost nobody has ever heard of me, yet I have mained G&W since 5 weeks before brawl was even out in america...

I don't think anyone here yelled about a post being out of place. But people do want to keep the forums in order since it makes it better to find the information you need. This thread is about matchup discussion, for example. So UTD Zac just tried to direct you to a more correct location to get your answer.

 

[Neb]

Ok, a few things wrong here...

1. why not have some sort of recognition for those who excel above the rest with G&W? that makes no sense... Not to be mean but last time a checked people like Corey deserve the credit for being as good as they are, so yeah in terms of not needing it why not?

2. if my question was simple? why wasnt it answered... I myself am a G&W player so there must be some of us who are curious.. otherwise I wouldnt have posted... Not to be mean but thats just how I see it.

3. I love how people constantly yell when a simple question or post is out of place... I am not asking for much time or thought needed... just a general opinion... I see OBM posting these things and it seems that some G&W players are definitely more respected than others... almost nobody has ever heard of me, yet I have mained G&W since 5 weeks before brawl was even out in america...

We do give our recognition when necessary, but not in the same way other character boards do. We don't need to put a person above our community like some kind of messiah, there are other ways of showing recognition. If anything, our community should be equal, excelling in different areas, but working for the same goal.

Also, I didn't sense any anger/disrespect in UTD Zac's post, he was just telling you how things are ran here. You don't ask who's the best G&W in the match-up thread...

EDIT: Ruuku beat me to it, :/.

 

[LuVr]

Ok, I guess i came on too defensive about the whole ordeal, I'm not used to being treated with respect, sorry for lashing out.. I have strong feelings about things and sometimes I can get out of hand, but overall my passion for this character and my pure enjoyment for him is why I am even posting here... so sorry for coming into this in a brash manner, I retract my earlier statement

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

King DDD - 60/40
Falco - 60/40
Ice Climbers - 60/40

I'd love to rediscuss these match ups.

Lain has DeDeDe'd the best of the G&W's. How can this matchup still be at 60/40?

This Falco thing is probly the dumbest match up this list. How can Falco be at a disadvantage? He can CG half a stock away from G&W, and is one of the quickest characters in the game, which is a HUGE advantage in G&W's favor, being that he's so slow. Its really not like Falco has a huge problem killing.

IC's? Really? IC's grab G&W, he's dead. He's incredibly easy to CG, and even you do get a chance to break away, next time you're grabbed, over 30+ damage, you aren't getting out. You can't camp against IC's, eventually a desynced blizzard is going to get you. Theres really not much G&W can do here except hope to CP a good stage.

I'd also like to say wolf/G&W is 50/50, but none of you would believe that.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hmmm, whatever.

Anyhow, I'm still on Olimar. I played Richbrown some more, who is one of the best Olimar's in my area apparently. Seriously...DMG...you're crazy if you're not spamming SH-N-air in this matchup. It's really good. It stops his camping, and it's not easy for him to punish as long as you space well.

The main thing that surprised me in this matchup was D-throw ->Up-smash -> U-air -> Up-B. Either I need better DI, or it just means don't get grabbed at low percents. But really...the premise of this matchup is pretty simple as long as you space N-air and D-tilt, and throw out B-air to counter anything else he does.


Also...Falco does have major trouble killing you if you're on the defensive. He can't combo into his Up-smash at KO percents (even laser -> Up-smash is easily shielded). His F-smash is slow. His D-smash has terrible range (and is weak). His B-air doesn't work when you're properly spacing.

 

[UTDZac]

Hmmm, whatever.

Anyhow, I'm still on Olimar. I played Richbrown some more, who is one of the best Olimar's in my area apparently. Seriously...DMG...you're crazy if you're not spamming SH-N-air in this matchup. It's really good. It stops his camping, and it's not easy for him to punish as long as you space well.

The main thing that surprised me in this matchup was D-throw ->Up-smash -> U-air -> Up-B. Either I need better DI, or it just means don't get grabbed at low percents. But really...the premise of this matchup is pretty simple as long as you space N-air and D-tilt, and throw out B-air to counter anything else he does.


Also...Falco does have major trouble killing you if you're on the defensive. He can't combo into his Up-smash at KO percents (even laser -> Up-smash is easily shielded). His F-smash is slow. His D-smash has terrible range (and is weak). His B-air doesn't work when you're properly spacing.

SDI the UpSmash up and away from Olimar. He won't be able to follow up with an uair if you do it right. I use both the control stick and the C-stick to SDI when I know I hit is coming (like Kirby fthrow -> uair at 0 percent)

 

[12345678910]

Ice Climbers - 60/40

IC's? Really? IC's grab G&W, he's dead. He's incredibly easy to CG, and even you do get a chance to break away, next time you're grabbed, over 30+ damage, you aren't getting out. You can't camp against IC's, eventually a desynced blizzard is going to get you. Theres really not much G&W can do here except hope to CP a good stage.

I guess IC's have an advantage over almost every character since they can pretty much 0-death them in chaingrabs if that's what you're trying to tell me. From matches I've watched, ICs have a hard time grabbing G&W. G&W shouldn't get grabbed out of an approach like turtle if it was spaced correctly since IC have among the worst grab ranges.

 

[LuVr]

true but people who are considered "acceptably skilled" at playing them would know how to counteract such techniques... I have played a few IC's in the past that were very good at grabbing G&W, not that I'm a pro but I am not a scrub for sure.

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W's properly spaced B-air, his Jab combo, and his Smashes can't be shieldgrabbed, so hmmmm...

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

G&W's properly spaced B-air, his Jab combo, and his Smashes can't be shieldgrabbed, so hmmmm...

Lain is my experience, the best of the best.

First off, wrong. I've been grabbed out of jab. Many times. Right after the first hit. You aren't to hit with a jab combo unless you hit with the first. Jab Combo = worthless.

His smashes have plenty enough start off time to get grabbed. smashes = worthless.

And i'm so tired of the G&W board thinking B-air is the answer to everything. A safely spaced bair nowadays consists of maybe hitting the opponent with one hit of the turtle before DI-ing back away.

And on top of that, desynced blizzard > bair.

Bair = next to useless.

I guess IC's have an advantage over almost every character since they can pretty much 0-death them in chaingrabs if that's what you're trying to tell me. From matches I've watched, ICs have a hard time grabbing G&W. G&W shouldn't get grabbed out of an approach like turtle if it was spaced correctly since IC have among the worst grab ranges.

G&W isn't that hard to grab. What defense does he have? And even if he is "hard" to grab, IC's will kill G&W if grabbed. Theres no maybe about it. Heavy characters have a better chance of grab breaking.

 

[lain]

Everything the man above me said is true.

 

[Vayseth]

I dno, heavy characters are easier to get grabbed IMO. But yeah, lain's pretty good at owning G+Ws.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Whos a good alt. for GaW? Sorry I'm too lazy to look through the whole thread to look, but don't say Falco or I'll play Snake and Marth vs all of you.

 

[TheWildcard]

G&W dosent getrpaed BY Ic's but Its by no means easy or nuetral for GaW.

GaW is easy to grab it really comes down to how good GaW is at reading and how the IC player counters/baits you. GaW dosen't win.

 

[12345678910]

Whos a good alt. for GaW? Sorry I'm too lazy to look through the whole thread to look, but don't say Falco or I'll play Snake and Marth vs all of you.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224189

They're discussing possible secondaries to G&W if you're worried about some unfavorable match-ups. DDD does well against snake and marth, two of G&W's hardest match-ups. Sorry if this isn't what you were looking for

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

It is. Thanks : D, but you're making me read XDD!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yeah, D3 seems most logical.