Of course matchup specifics are more important than general rules, but Brawl is 35 (not including transformations) different characters. Sometimes you don't get a chance to read about a matchup. General "rules" give you some idea on how to fight the majority of the cast. Of course, if cross up nairs don't work on your opponent for some reason, you have to adapt and try some other tactic/stratagems.
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|Game & Watch Stratagems
- Thread starter Neb
- Start date
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Just knowing how their grabs work isn't hard, as well as general rules to pressure at least the viable characters...
Neb
Smash Lord
I think it'd be better if we formed a base for G&W's pressure game, then later, focus on
the individual characters. So, this is what we've contributed so far...
Baiting the Shield: Chef, Empty SH's
Pressuring/Conditioning the Shield: Chef, Nair, Dair
Weakening the Shield: Nair > Dair, Nair > FF > Jab
Objective:
Weaken shield enough for shieldstab (easier KO'ing/Set-ups).
Completely shatter shield.
We still need safer pressuring strategies.
Also, what are your opinions on initiating said shield pressure out of grab release?
the individual characters. So, this is what we've contributed so far...
Baiting the Shield: Chef, Empty SH's
Pressuring/Conditioning the Shield: Chef, Nair, Dair
Weakening the Shield: Nair > Dair, Nair > FF > Jab
Objective:
Weaken shield enough for shieldstab (easier KO'ing/Set-ups).
Completely shatter shield.
We still need safer pressuring strategies.
Also, what are your opinions on initiating said shield pressure out of grab release?
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Don't grab release would be my opinion.
Also, nair -> Parachute is good, with an optional Dair that you instantly slowfall, it should end before you land =].
Also, nair -> Parachute is good, with an optional Dair that you instantly slowfall, it should end before you land =].
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Posting again, I don't know if an edit will bring this thread to NEW POST IN BOLD!!!11 Status, and people need to discuss IMO.
At least have some life in the boards =]
At least have some life in the boards =]
Lol...that got my attention >_>
I'm like "Hey, something new to discuss." then I was like "Crap, nothing new =\"
Are we still discussing shield pressure or are we moving on to something else?
Neb
Smash Lord
I don't really think we discussed shield pressure very thoroughly,
but if you guys want to move on, that's fine. Whatever you feel like discussing.
but if you guys want to move on, that's fine. Whatever you feel like discussing.
Mr. Escalator
G&W Guru
Move on to something else, since G&W shield stabs with little help x)
Neb
Smash Lord
Alright.
Give me some topics, I remember Ruuku requested, so...
Give me some topics, I remember Ruuku requested, so...
- Chef
- Upb
I think we should discuss chef. It has some interesting uses. I've always hated it due to the laggyness, but after playing some cpu's the other day, I realized the lag isn't THAT bad (especially compared to the bucket).
The bacon has some nice priority (perhaps cancelling out certain projectiles? We might need to test that out). Due to the random motion of Chef, it effective creates a wall of food thats insurpassable for a very brief time (perhaps to give yourself some breathing room or to slow the game down). The most effective use of chef seems to be flipping out 2-3 pieces of food at a time and reacting to your opponent.
It seems fairly effective against characters with short, multiple jumps (MK, kirbster, pit, jiggs, etc). The will be forced to approach G&W in the air =)
Just some thoughts to get us started.
The bacon has some nice priority (perhaps cancelling out certain projectiles? We might need to test that out). Due to the random motion of Chef, it effective creates a wall of food thats insurpassable for a very brief time (perhaps to give yourself some breathing room or to slow the game down). The most effective use of chef seems to be flipping out 2-3 pieces of food at a time and reacting to your opponent.
It seems fairly effective against characters with short, multiple jumps (MK, kirbster, pit, jiggs, etc). The will be forced to approach G&W in the air =)
Just some thoughts to get us started.
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
MK runs under it with no problems, I think the dashgrab can hit through the pan. If he running-SLs you then you will get hit through the pan.
Make sure you never buffer your chef!
Make sure you never buffer your chef!
gameandwatchmewin
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2008
- Messages
- 33
i'm playing the undisputed best at my college tomorrow. he mixes in spot dodges when i dash-a him. aka the helmetslide.
Here's my idea, before he's up to 90% do some helmetslides and take the punishment. after he is up to 90% i'll slide into usmash since it takes so long it should get past the spot dodge, but not make me go too far. what do you think?
also he'll punish me if i use the key,dair, what do you guys do when your directly above someone?
also there's another guy who uses lucario. i hate him.
sorry for all the newbyness, i just got onto smashboards, learning the lingo
Here's my idea, before he's up to 90% do some helmetslides and take the punishment. after he is up to 90% i'll slide into usmash since it takes so long it should get past the spot dodge, but not make me go too far. what do you think?
also he'll punish me if i use the key,dair, what do you guys do when your directly above someone?
also there's another guy who uses lucario. i hate him.
sorry for all the newbyness, i just got onto smashboards, learning the lingo
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Don't helmetslide.
Jump at him with a nair and up-b away.
Also, he shouldn't be able to spot dodge your dash attack >_>..
Jump at him with a nair and up-b away.
Also, he shouldn't be able to spot dodge your dash attack >_>..
Tomkraven
Smash Journeyman
gameandwatchmewin
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2008
- Messages
- 33
I start most matches by flippin one from the start. Its never messed me up and its hit someone once.(i got the idea from some guy do it on youtube).. Plus if you do hit them its like super mindgames because you just predicted their move before seeing them play; so there is a chance that they might just drop the controller walk away and put aluminum foil on their head, then they're just looking dumb.
You guys see anything ******** with flippin one from the start? Is there a way that you always start?....charge, jump, turn around for the turtle?
also i hate lucario. i just started hating ness. (I'll stop the noobiness pretty soon)
You guys see anything ******** with flippin one from the start? Is there a way that you always start?....charge, jump, turn around for the turtle?
also i hate lucario. i just started hating ness. (I'll stop the noobiness pretty soon)
K@0S
Smash Ace
Chef destroys DK on flat stages. He can't approache from the ground, if he tries to bair throught pancakes (which actually works) then dtilt before the second bair comes out, and if he tries to approache from above then you have a nice juggle setup (I personally prefer to up b or bair diagonally since his dair has insane range).
It's also good to randomly throw 2 or 3 pancakes against other characters without projectile, they will focus less on you and if the pancakes touch it's a free fair or upsmash.
I rarely use it at ledgeguarding except against ledgecampers. Maybe I should do it more often.
It's also good to randomly throw 2 or 3 pancakes against other characters without projectile, they will focus less on you and if the pancakes touch it's a free fair or upsmash.
I rarely use it at ledgeguarding except against ledgecampers. Maybe I should do it more often.
gameandwatchmewin
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2008
- Messages
- 33
i'm going to flip 1, 2, or 3 at the beginning of the match, and towards the end of the match, once they're conditioned, i'm going to just keep with it. buffering the hell out of it even if metaknight is charging full speed. hopefully the pan will do the semi spike in time.( i know this move would be ********), but it would be pretty unpredictable and with higher level players it might be awesome. before you say its ********, have you done it against higher level players ( and I mean on purpose, not getting the accidental buffer). I'll tell you guys if it works. Hope i used the word buffer right.
Hate lucario, hate ness.
Hate lucario, hate ness.
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Buffer means you input something before it is actually possible, but the game "saves" the input for a few frames and then does the move automatically. For example, you airdodge at the ground and press forward on your C-stick, before you land. You will land an immediately do a f-smash, even if the timing is a little off.
And never buffer chef. All it does is make it slower with more lag, with absolutely no advantages to just waiting 2-5 frames and pressing B rapidly.
Higher levels of play.. Well, being unpredictable is one thing, you also have to be useful. Imagine if all I did was D-tilt. Sure, they never saw that kind of play comming, but they adapt to and punish it fast.
And never buffer chef. All it does is make it slower with more lag, with absolutely no advantages to just waiting 2-5 frames and pressing B rapidly.
Higher levels of play.. Well, being unpredictable is one thing, you also have to be useful. Imagine if all I did was D-tilt. Sure, they never saw that kind of play comming, but they adapt to and punish it fast.
Shivr Strike
Smash Rookie
Thanks for the insight it has helped out quite a bit. Your explanations are very detailed, keep up the good work.
Lightning Tiger
Smash Apprentice
"Dthrow
The down throw isn't really that great of a techchase, to be honest, especially compared to Dedede's and Snake's. It generally takes good observation to use the dthrow trap on experienced players. Once you look at G&W's grab game, you'll see its high risk and reward. Its really a gamble, and I like guaranteed damage, even if it requires some elbow grease, such as uthrow. But if you fancy the dthrow, here are some tricks to tighten your trap.
Dthrow has many holes...
• Get-up
• Get-up Attack
• Roll Left
• Roll Right
• Tech
• Tech Left
• Tech Right
1. When you dthrow, pick a direction, and walk forward at a distance that puts you just out of range of your opponents get-up attack, while still in fair reach of a tipper dsmash. You may need to charge, depending on how your foe reacts. This covers get-up, get-up attack, and any roll/tech in your direction. It still remains 50/50.
2. Before you do anything after throwing...jab once. It'll catch your opponent if they try everything but a roll/tech, which reduces about 70% chance. When you nab them with greenhouse, follow suit with your ground game. The good thing is, if G&W jabs forward, and they DI behind him, the hitbox will still catch them, from there you can react and punish without trying your luck. Use this sparingly, or else they'll retaliate.
3. One of my favorite tricks to condition my opponent after dthrow, is to sit in my shield; its safe, and rather than trotting left and right, sticking your neck out, you have better odds. If they lay there, I can spank them with the majority of G&W's moveset, if they roll/tech forward, its easy chase, and if they roll/tech behind me, I let turtle off the chain to eat.
4. Lastly, as you know, dthrow on platforms is camp ****; you have free smashes, tilts, and a mean regrab, yada-yada. Anyway, something you should try next time you grab your foe on a platform, is to dthrow, then slip under said platform, eye your opponents reaction, jump, and follow-up with anything from aerials to specials. Its pretty sexy to surprise your opponent with a fair from under their *** that sends them off-screen. "
Thanks for the advice.
Im using number 1 and 3 more often and getting kills faster.
as for number 2 im having trouble even using it as people rarely just tech or get up.
The down throw isn't really that great of a techchase, to be honest, especially compared to Dedede's and Snake's. It generally takes good observation to use the dthrow trap on experienced players. Once you look at G&W's grab game, you'll see its high risk and reward. Its really a gamble, and I like guaranteed damage, even if it requires some elbow grease, such as uthrow. But if you fancy the dthrow, here are some tricks to tighten your trap.
Dthrow has many holes...
• Get-up
• Get-up Attack
• Roll Left
• Roll Right
• Tech
• Tech Left
• Tech Right
1. When you dthrow, pick a direction, and walk forward at a distance that puts you just out of range of your opponents get-up attack, while still in fair reach of a tipper dsmash. You may need to charge, depending on how your foe reacts. This covers get-up, get-up attack, and any roll/tech in your direction. It still remains 50/50.
2. Before you do anything after throwing...jab once. It'll catch your opponent if they try everything but a roll/tech, which reduces about 70% chance. When you nab them with greenhouse, follow suit with your ground game. The good thing is, if G&W jabs forward, and they DI behind him, the hitbox will still catch them, from there you can react and punish without trying your luck. Use this sparingly, or else they'll retaliate.
3. One of my favorite tricks to condition my opponent after dthrow, is to sit in my shield; its safe, and rather than trotting left and right, sticking your neck out, you have better odds. If they lay there, I can spank them with the majority of G&W's moveset, if they roll/tech forward, its easy chase, and if they roll/tech behind me, I let turtle off the chain to eat.
4. Lastly, as you know, dthrow on platforms is camp ****; you have free smashes, tilts, and a mean regrab, yada-yada. Anyway, something you should try next time you grab your foe on a platform, is to dthrow, then slip under said platform, eye your opponents reaction, jump, and follow-up with anything from aerials to specials. Its pretty sexy to surprise your opponent with a fair from under their *** that sends them off-screen. "
Thanks for the advice.
Im using number 1 and 3 more often and getting kills faster.
as for number 2 im having trouble even using it as people rarely just tech or get up.