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Game & Watch vs. Marth?

Endless Nightmares

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
4,090
Location
MN
How can I beat Marth with Game & Watch...is it even possible? Marth outranges everything I try to do. I can never get close enough to attack. Not even a f-air or a key.

I usually just pick a different character against Marths but is there a way to beat them?
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
Let him approach and whack him out of it. It really depends on the stage, and you're at a HUGE disadvantage. You can't approach on the ground at all because of Dtilt and grabs.. in the air you gotta wait for him to move first.

Honestly you shouldn't win...
 

Truedge930

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
90
Location
Ithaca, NY
Fake outs, getting lucky with #9 judgment and maybe triangle jumping, even then it's still a one sided matchup.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
footnbaseball said:
Marth-I hate marth. I just hate him. He outranges you on really everything, and will be killing you at very low %s. He even outranges manhole, which puts you at a serious disadvantage. Be very defensive, and fast fall full jumped parachutes and keys on his head. God speed little GW. God speed.

EDIT: I've done some more work, and heres what ive got on marth:

1.key is one of your only moves with range, so double jump it and ff it on their head.

2. your dash attack has excellent priority, it will always clank with the sword, so a nice tactic would be to dash attack, and since its so slow chances are they will fsmash or ftilt, when it clanks, immediately dtilt.

3.mind games are your friends. dash in, wd back, fair.

4.for the love of god, if you get a hit, follow it up. if you get in the range, then you have got to keep the pressure on until they slap you away.

theres a good vid on dc++ of grids gw vs andys marth, and grid does suprisingly well, so it couldnt hurt to take a look at that.

Directly from footnbaseball's pinned topic... >_>
 

SW_BoD

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
51
I doesn't sound like the dash would have priority... Oh well. *shrugs*
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
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Houston, Texas
It'd clank at best. I guess you could follow up with a manhole... but meh. Dash attack is way slow.
 

Picitt

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
130
Try watching the Chu Dat vs Ken match up. I hear Chu Dat did pretty well vs Ken's Marth
 

Marthmaster92

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
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Stuck between a parallel dimension of code and you
Let him approach and whack him out of it. It really depends on the stage, and you're at a HUGE disadvantage. You can't approach on the ground at all because of Dtilt and grabs.. in the air you gotta wait for him to move first.

Honestly you shouldn't win...
I agree with him on this. G&W shouldn't win, but if the Marth player is horrible, or gets too cocky, you can win though, 'cause I just started G&W training. (more messing around actually) and I found he can be a fast and hard hitter with wavesmashing and l-cancelling.
 

Gea

Smash Master
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Well... GW's main issues are not with his speed or moves... but more with his weight, shield, teching... he's EASY to tech-chase, and Marth has the tools to abuse this. Yes if the Marth can't, he probably can't play his range that well either and GW has a chance. But GW looses his strength of giant disjointed boxes against Marth, then his weaknesses are only furthered. (A tipper = death basically x.x )

The few stages that would really help you (let's say Mute) also all have disadvantages (once he hits you off he can keep doing it over and over, even if your recovery isn't that bad on the stage compared to his). The problem lies with the fact that its hard to nuetralize yourself after getting hit... whereas for Marth, its not all that hard.
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,964
platform stages are your friends, you have to stay underneath him as much as possible, he has very low priority at his feet, so stay away from stages with platforms, get him up with a manhole and stay under him for as long as possible
 

TiaraPrincessMarth

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
8
You all have forgotten one move that marth cannot stand against.

the parachute.

That gay thing hits you if G&W's FEET touch you!! It's got insane priority and really good knockback.
 

LAX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
324
Location
Cary, North Carolina
Marth's sword is miles longer than the parachute. If you're going to FF it onto him you might as well just key and follow up with a dtilt
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
It is all about the grab game and the edgeguarding. If you can edgeguard well with G&W, you have a very good shot of winning. D-throw to judgement hammer or parachute, then parachute or f-air to edgeguard.

Other than that, key to manhole combos and triangle jumping into grabs.
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
3,786
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Chester, IL
Oh come on guys... G&W could do it. I've personally beaten my friend's Marth 4/5 times; granted, he's inexperienced against low-tiered characters, but he's a very good player.

The key is to play defensively and shieldgrab. Use UThrow or DThrow according to their %, then try and combo the crap out of them. Dash attack -> UTilt -> FAir sometimes works, depending on DI. The things you want to shffl' are DAir and FAir; if you're playing mindgames with them and you predict that they'll sidestep, NAir should be used to nail them after the dodge. But anyway, FAir has good range on G&W's standards and DAir is hard to shieldgrab due to the second hitbox upon landing. If you ever need to play defensively, shffl'ing BAirs like a madman works great due to the number of hitboxes.
 

Endless Nightmares

Smash Master
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Sep 23, 2006
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MN
Oh snap...I lost to a really good Marth but this time I took him down to the last stock/+100%

I'm getting there.

I just have to be very cautious and move in between attacks. I don't really remember what I did but I think ftilt and dtilt canceled a lot of attacks...and a combination of Wavedashes, dashes, DD and crouches that I like to call the K-Walk >_>

WD + dtilt. Good combination.
 

Rapid_Assassin

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Feb 8, 2005
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RI
Oh come on guys... G&W could do it. I've personally beaten my friend's Marth 4/5 times; granted, he's inexperienced against low-tiered characters, but he's a very good player.

The key is to play defensively and shieldgrab. Use UThrow or DThrow according to their %, then try and combo the crap out of them. Dash attack -> UTilt -> FAir sometimes works, depending on DI. The things you want to shffl' are DAir and FAir; if you're playing mindgames with them and you predict that they'll sidestep, NAir should be used to nail them after the dodge. But anyway, FAir has good range on G&W's standards and DAir is hard to shieldgrab due to the second hitbox upon landing. If you ever need to play defensively, shffl'ing BAirs like a madman works great due to the number of hitboxes.
Why would you be shieldgrabbing? If the Marth is any good, he'd space himself to hit with tippers, which are out of your grab range.
 

highandmightyjoe

Smash Ace
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Dec 2, 2005
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Alexandria, VA
And how do you play defensively with G&W anyway. All his defensive abilities are crap. Probably the worst shield in the game, easy to tech chase, light, etc. The only good defensive aspect he has is his okay recovery. Seriously, shield grabbing Marth is pretty much never an option. You just need to take every opportunity you get. As someone already said, once you land a hit follow it up. You won't get inside often so when it happens take advantage of it. Still though, your pretty screwed in this match-up.
 

Overswarm

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21,181
And how do you play defensively with G&W anyway. All his defensive abilities are crap. Probably the worst shield in the game, easy to tech chase, light, etc. The only good defensive aspect he has is his okay recovery. Seriously, shield grabbing Marth is pretty much never an option. You just need to take every opportunity you get. As someone already said, once you land a hit follow it up. You won't get inside often so when it happens take advantage of it. Still though, your pretty screwed in this match-up.
Turtling works well.
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
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Why would you be shieldgrabbing? If the Marth is any good, he'd space himself to hit with tippers, which are out of your grab range.
True, you have a point. My friend plays an aggresive Marth though, so sometimes he messes up his spacing with FAir >.>. You can try waveshielding after an FSmash though, and then grab from there.

Also, it may be possible to crouch-cancel his shffl'd FAir and then counter with DTilt.
 

Nakamaru

Smash Master
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Simple, never do it. Marth is better than GnW in everyway shape and form. Against a good marth you would need insane mindgames to even land a hit. Also he is hard to combo and kill. So just pick a different character.
 

QERB

Banned via Warnings
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Jul 8, 2006
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Don't let marth get too much room. Be a pest and stay up his @$$ with alot of throws and manholes (not that that's easy at all....) WD to manhole is your friend.
 

Tian

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
83
Use his Risky Hammer thingy maggica.

Or just throw Bacon.

I don't really know, i haven't unlocked him yet.
 

linkmastersword

Smash Lord
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Jun 22, 2006
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Herndon and Newport News, Virginia
I have a few strategies that I've developed to give marth one hell of a fight. I usually beat marth's with my game and watch.

to perform the following strategies, you must be able to execute all of the advanced techniques. i.e. triangle jumping, wavedashing, l-canceling, wavelanding.

strategy #1 :
What G&W does: Fake an approach with a short hop, at your peak DI backwords.
What Marth does: hopefully he'll try a fair, or better yet, an fsmash.

if this happens, keep DIing backwards so he misses. execute a wavelandfsmash, or dsmash.
or just land, and to a quick fair to catch him off gaurd.

Strategy #2:
What G&W does: after marth lands on the ground GW comes flying in with a bair, this move has the most range and can hit marth before he can smash or tilt if you approached quick enough. the move has little knockback, you should land near him.
Little knock back is what you want, l-cancel and throw a c-sticked smash attack at him. This all depends on where you land in context to marth. if you land on him, do an usmash fast
land close to him do a fsmash or dsmash. I like dsmash if I'm close, because if I don't sweet spot the hammer, then he goes almost no where, so then I do a fsmash, fair, or dtilt. (or judgement if you are feeling lucky)

you want to get marth in the air, this is important. G&W has great uair priority on marth
jump uair, jump nair.

strategy #3
what G&W does: toss 1 bacon,
what marth does: he either shields, wavedashes backwords, or tries to hurdle it. if he swats it then plan fails.

what G&W does: if he shields, rush in with a dtilt, or a flying key attack, both are great for penetrating the shield. always l-cancel aerials.

if he wavedashes backwords do strategy #1

if he tries to hurdle or jump the bacon, you smack him with a fair. hit him inbetween his fairs, or beat him to it.

after this, throw a nair to get him off the level

ledge gaurding:
fsmash works well if you crouch the upb
time a shffldair on the ledge, the hit box will get marth and it will either hit him up and out, or it will be a meteor smash.

if he's trying to come down from a platform, he's vulnerable to utilts, and wavesmashes.

always be shorthopping and wavelanding to get marth to make his move first.
good luck fellow game and watchers, may the bucket be with you.
 

Antz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
196
Location
Tempe, AZ
Wavedash alot and use the manhole then fsmash. when u get him off the stage, what I do is toss alot of sauages Marth will get stuck in them trying 2 recover then Fsmash him. try this it works, I tried this on my friends Marth and it worked.
 

Wilhelmsan

Smash Lord
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Sep 22, 2006
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Austin, TX
Strategy #2:
What G&W does: after marth lands on the ground GW comes flying in with a bair, this move has the most range and can hit marth before he can smash or tilt if you approached quick enough. the move has little knockback, you should land near him.
Little knock back is what you want, l-cancel and throw a c-sticked smash attack at him. This all depends on where you land in context to marth.
It looks good on paper, but might I remind you that Bair cannot be L-cancelled.

The key has pretty good range and priority. Dash attack has good priority, and the lag of it cancelling out another attack is so little that you may be able to get in a dtilt close enough to start the mayhem.

What you really need to do is start pounding him and don't let him break out of it. That's really the only way to get marth. It's so tricky just to land an opening hit though, that's where the problem lies.
 

linkmastersword

Smash Lord
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Jun 22, 2006
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Herndon and Newport News, Virginia
are you serious? no wonder why my l-canceling attempts always fail. but it's still possible to get the smash attack after the bair. I've been working on it for a while, it is pretty tricky to penetrate the range of the sword though. hmmm, thanks for telling me about the bair, I thought I just sucked at it.
 

Nakamaru

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
3,798
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Far far into the stars
Jump backwards and Fair. If he sheilds he can't sheild grab you, and if he doesnt then you get a few % in. It is a slow and hard fight for GnW, but it can be won easily if played smart.

When he is recoverying dont stand close to the edge, stay so the d-tilt just slightly pops over the edge, and aim for his hand on his recovery.

Bair -> parachute is your greatest friend in this fight, but use it sparingly, same way you attack with Fair.

When they miss an L-cancel or smash, Abuse with a fair or parachute.

Also tech chase with they Key, since it hits twice you can easily miss the initial hit, and still hit them with the ground attack.
 
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