Ganondorf

[Deleted member]

What if, his moves had almost completely different animations, yet worked similar as before?

For example, instead of Wizard's Foot, Ganondorf pulls off something similar to M. Bison's Psycho Crusher in appearance (something that's been brought up before in another thread).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I had a teleport attack that worked more of less like his Down B already. And I like the elbow attack following up with that sword slash, but that should've been in Brawl already. The only thing they took from Ganondorf in Twilight Princess for Brawl is his new Forward Tilt, aka Sparta Kick.

 

[Deleted member]

I've heard that if you took too long to push Ganondorf away during the sword clash, he'll do something similar to how Warlock Punch looks in Brawl.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Might try that out. I had a lot of fun beating the crap out of TP's Ganondorf. Maybe it had to do with me being frustrated at OoT's Ganondorf battle difficulty, maybe it was due to my 'skillz' with the secret Sword techniques

Spoiler

going HAM with mortal draw, screw them backslashing *****cats

but alas I never expected it to be equally as easy in Brawl. He even doesn't bother using his sword. 'Luckily' Link is also weaker in Brawl than in TP, so it balances out.

 

[The Black mage]

My god, Ganondorf needs to be powered up. In my opinion, I agree with diddy's statement about him having some sort of lance.
That will seriously make him my favorite.

 

[XUnlimitedAlchemistX]

Increase his speed to that of his melee days, give him farther jump distance, reduce his lags, especially after those aerials, Give his Side B slightly farther distance. As for the look, I really don't have a preference.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Nobody has really come up with an idea for his grab, they've mostly just said "lol it's short and sucks!"

What about Ganondorf uses some sort of dark magic (it looks like some ball or streamer that floats over to them) that grabs them and pulls them in? Of course, this has a reach limit (like Samus's laser grab) and is just as effective as its short reach as it would be in its long reach.

It would look something like Ganondorf putting his arm out (which is how it works in short reach, where he physically grabs them) and dark magic/energy type flows and separates from his hand (like Zelda's side B, except this has a reach limit and doesn't need to be controlled) and it travels to the enemy, they have a small amount of dark energy engulf them as they are pulled towards Ganondorf's hand that is stretched out and chokes them.

To reiterate, unlike Zelda's side b, it is an automatic move - you don't control the length/distance of it, it automatically goes to whoever you grab.

Or, if people are so adamant to include a lance in his arsenal, have him pull out a Tridant, stab it and whoever he grabs gets damaged (10-15 or so) and he pulls them in.
Simply: stabs them, they're stuck on the end of the trident, Ganondorf pulls them towards him.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Also, I see people posting about how characters need 'weight buffs' - when they say 'weight' are they referring to them being heavier and therefore harder to kill and knock back, or are they talking about something else?

Either way, Ganondorf is unrealistically easy to kill compared to his physicalities.
Ganon is the slowest in the game. He is one of, if not the strongest and most powerful in the game. For some reason, Ganondorf can easily get KO'd at 120 or so damage while many others can go up to 180-200 with some sort of ease.

His weak durability (ability to be easily knocked back) paired with his awful horizontal recovery, and 'jumps' in general, contributes to this and makes him almost useless when he gets knocked anywhere near the blast line.

 

[SmashShadow]

Either way, Ganondorf is unrealistically easy to kill compared to his physicalities.
Ganon is the slowest in the game. He is one of, if not the strongest and most powerful in the game. For some reason, Ganondorf can easily get KO'd at 120 or so damage while many others can go up to 180-200 with some sort of ease.

That's because of his extremely fast falling rate coupled with slow, short jumps and bad recovery. He's monumentally easier to kill horizontally rather than vertically because of these reasons.

 

[Curmudgeon]

They could just add Black Shadow to be F-Zero's 2nd character,give him Ganondorf's moveset, and create a deserving original moveset for Ganondorf.

By the way, expect something like this if Ganondorf adapts Skyward Sword's art style

 

[Robert of Normandy]

They could just add Black Shadow to be F-Zero's 2nd character,give him Ganondorf's moveset, and create a deserving original moveset for Ganondorf.

So Black Shadow isn't deserving of getting a unique moveset? I'd suggest you go read through this thread before you suggest that again.

IMO, there are two "best case scenarios" for Ganondorf that allow him to keep his old moves AND get a more original moveset as well.
1: An EX-Mode system is implemented, where characters can pick between multiple movesets on the CSS.(This is seperate from alternate costumes)
2: Ganondorf has a "stance" system implemented that allows Ganondorf to switch between his old and new movesets during battle.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Kinda like Nightmare in Soul Calibur? Yeah, could totally see that working for big old Gdorf.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

That's because of his extremely fast falling rate coupled with slow, short jumps and bad recovery. He's monumentally easier to kill horizontally rather than vertically because of these reasons.

It still doesn't change the fact that he isn't as durable or lasting as other medium or even lightweight characters. Even in vertical knockouts he can be KO'd at 100-150 while Captain Falcon, Pikachu, Metaknight, etc, easily go up to 200.

They could just add Black Shadow to be F-Zero's 2nd character,give him Ganondorf's moveset, and create a deserving original moveset for Ganondorf.

By the way, expect something like this if Ganondorf adapts Skyward Sword's art style

I don't think they'll change it (since that Ganondorf won't be based/copied from anything, it will be a new design purely for SSB4). They usually take it from the latest game, or they add more details and upgrade their appearance (like Mario, his appearance in SSBB has more details).

Anyway, if Ganondorf looks like that (i.e. cartoony, basically 'Toon Ganondorf') and he still sucks comparatively, I may actually stop playing as him.

If they base it off that design and keep him in a well-detailed suit, then that's fine.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Bump......

 

[GetBentSaggy]

BUMP! F**KING BUMP! WTF!? Why is NO ONE talking about Ganon when he needs a serious either change or complete overhaul!?

 

[Frostwraith]

Before Ganon needs an overhaul, YOU need to stop bumping threads and spamming.

This isn't GameFAQs, you know... >_>

That Skyward Sword-styled Ganondorf looks really nice, anyway! The designers could make Skyward Sword styled Sheik and Ganondorf and there would be no problems with Ganon and Sheik returning while Link and Zelda get their designs straight from Skyward Sword.

 

[Diddy Kong]

People seem to forget that yeah. Check the last few pages or so, you'll see plenty of us giving in ideas.

NO no ****ing Skyward Sword design for Sheik. There IS no Skyward Sword design for Sheik, unlike for Twilight Princess. Sheik was MEANT to be in Twilight Princess, but got scrapped. Hence the model in Brawl. Do you seriously think they're gonna make a model just for Sheik to fit in? If it's Skyward Sword models, it's Impa as the playable Sheikah. People need to get over this.

Skyward Sword model doesn't even need to be made for Ganondorf, as Ganondorf still appeared in Wind Waker. But Ganondorf should imo be based on Ocarina of Time again, more specifically, on the final boss fight against him. But don't think Ganondorf will be entirely unique either, unfortunately. If he'd get only a different B or Down B attack that'd be awesome. Couple with some different Smashes as well (especially Up and Down Smash where almost useless in Brawl) and he'd be much better already.

 

[Frostwraith]

People seem to forget that yeah. Check the last few pages or so, you'll see plenty of us giving in ideas.

NO no ****ing Skyward Sword design for Sheik. There IS no Skyward Sword design for Sheik, unlike for Twilight Princess. Sheik was MEANT to be in Twilight Princess, but got scrapped. Hence the model in Brawl. Do you seriously think they're gonna make a model just for Sheik to fit in? If it's Skyward Sword models, it's Impa as the playable Sheikah. People need to get over this.

Hmm... you're forgetting the fact that the devs DID make new models for, say... Ice Climbers, Fox, Falco, Marth, Ness, Lucas, among others for Brawl, right?

Why wouldn't the devs do the same thing for the Zelda characters? It doesn't make sense...

Sorry, but your argument isn't very solid.

 

[Deleted member]

This is Diddy Kong we're talking about. Any excuse that can be used to replace Sheik with Impa, he will take.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hmm... you're forgetting the fact that the devs DID make new models for, say... Ice Climbers, Fox, Falco, Marth, Ness, Lucas, among others for Brawl, right?

Why wouldn't the devs do the same thing for the Zelda characters? It doesn't make sense...

Sorry, but your argument isn't very solid.

Yeah, but all the Zelda characters safe for Toon Link came straight out of Twilight Princess. Hence why people keep bringing up 'yeah Sheik wasn't in TP, but she is TP-styled in Brawl' which makes totally no sence cause you can even READ ON SHEIK'S DOJO PAGE: she wasn't in TP, but got a model cause she was supposed to be in.

Which is extremely different from making up a model from scratch. Yet, it's been suggested Link and Zelda use Skyward Sword models? There was never no Sheik planned for Skyward Sword, and a different-yet-way-more-awesome character called Impa was in there, which'd be a very good replacement character for Sheik. As Impa actually is a re-occuring Zelda character, and not a one-off.

Anyways, coupling Sheik to SS Zelda really makes no sence at all.

 

[Deleted member]

She never got a model.
Only concept art.
"We based her model on a design that was drafted up during the development of that game."

And this was that design:

Now get back on topic. This is Ganondorf, not "SUPER HAPPY IMPA FUN TIME REPLACE SHEIK YAH!".

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, that's a lot more to base a character on than nothing.

Anyways, I hope they will keep Ganon's aerials mostly the same except for his Neutral Air. That could be replaced by something more fitting.

 

[Deleted member]

Ganon needs to float like Peach. It would help his recovery.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Floating could be done with Up B if anything. Don't think he really needs it. A teleporting move with Down B would be nice though.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

Floating could be done with Up B if anything. Don't think he really needs it. A teleporting move with Down B would be nice though.

I don't think Ganondorf should float like Peach but I think he should float to a degree, thus giving him a greater (or simply great) horizontal recovery. At least pretend his cape does something like Batman's cape, for example.

Also, up-b is generally for recovery, not down-b. Floating should be a Ganondorf mechanic while up-b becomes a teleport.


Ganondorf was like a ninja that was just hugely buff in one of the Zelda games I can't remember (might be Twilight Princess).
They should give up greater speed and jumps, preferably as fast as Melee.
Improve the overall speed of his moves, remove the lag from his moves, but don't give him 'follow ups' (to balance out his greatly improved speed, make sure his moves don't render him overpowered).
Have 'A' be an uppercut and pressing 'A' again can be followed by his Brawl jab, then end the follow up moves there. The rest of his a moves stay the same except his awfully sh*tty up-A.

A few possibilities for Ganon's up-a:

If Ganon uses magic at all, give him his Ocarina of Time magic ball (except animate it so it's dark magic).

Or have him raise his arm up and push it towards the ground to make a small dark energy explosion that is on either side of him (and where he's standing, obviously) that launches people up in the air.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am positive now with a remake for Wind Waker, Ganondorf be presented in Smash in his most awesome incaration:

Finally a sword Ganondorf in Smash? Who has a moveset??

 

[Ove]

I am more interested in the new Zelda game to Wii U. Maybe Ganondorf will be in it.

Nevertheless, that particular design won't probably make it in time to be in Smash 4.

 

[LunchPolice]

My brother and I thought it would be a good idea if Ganondorf fought on his horse with a throwable spear. Would certainly make him stand out a bit. Melee attacks would make use of the spear and the horse's mean kicks. I'm sure a horse's back-air and throws would be pretty brutal. He'd tower over other the characters. Ganondorf doesn't really have that much to work with for a Smash moveset anyway, so why not? May as well give him a very unique moveset and make him look extremely arrogant in the process. Plus, putting a horse in a situation like Smash Bros sounds hilarious. Double jumping on a horse...

No matter what they do to the guy, Ganondorf needs some change when it comes to special moves. Warlock Punch is USELESS and pretty unfitting at that. Why not give him his energy ball from Ocarina of Time? It'd be chargeable, but players could reflect it with their regular A attacks if their timing was perfect. Every volley would make the ball even stronger, so that could lead to some pretty hype moments. I find purple falcon kick to be pretty unfitting, too. Something like a teleport from Phantom Ganon would be pretty sweet. I imagine it'd work similar to Metaknight's teleport.

Assuming he's going to be onfoot again, his animations could do with some tweaking, too. He's the king of evil. He should be a lot more fearsome. His walk animation should have his shoulders up high with big confident strides... you know, something actually intimidating. His run should be more akin to Melee where it was all like "Oh ****, it's Ganondorf!" rather than "Oh, it's an old, unfit man." His winposes need to be less goofy. I don't know, just... make him more like Ganondorf. Like something to be afraid of. His character hasn't exactly been done justice in Smash. Sure he's much less cloney in Brawl, and the new moves they gave him are a nice step forward. But there's still a long way to go.

If he gets a new moveset, I'm not sure if I prefer TP-styled single sword, WW double swords or horse mounted Ganondorf. Judging by the direction this new Smash seems to be taking, I wouldn't be surprised if he got a totally new moveset. That is, if he gets in at all.

 

[MarioNPinkie]

just give him back his melee moveset and ill be content with it lol

 

[Ove]

just give him back his melee moveset and ill be content with it lol

Meh, then they'll have to change Falcon completely. And that's not an option.

Alternatively, we encourage clones.

 

[Diddy Kong]

At this point, basically everything is better than Brawl's Ganondorf.

Am a -sort of- Ganondorf main in Melee though. So I wouldn't mind it too bad. But damn, I'd miss the oppertunity for Toon Ganondorf to become playable.

Those twin blades mannnn...

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Meh, then they'll have to change Falcon completely. And that's not an option.

Why would we need to do that?

Alternatively, we encourage clones.

So keeping a character who was already a clone as a clone encourages adding more clones? Not sure I follow.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You'd really think Ganondorf would be the only clone in the game then?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You'd really think Ganondorf would be the only clone in the game then?

No. I just don't see how keeping characters who are already clones as they are would encourage adding more clones.

 

[GetBentSaggy]

No. I just don't see how keeping characters who are already clones as they are would encourage adding more clones.

The reason there were so many clones in Melee was because they were rushed to release and fell behind in development.

The reason in Brawl is not entirely on being rushed (they were behind on development and had to quickly finish, much like with Melee) but more on lazy writing.

 

[MarioNPinkie]

Meh, then they'll have to change Falcon completely. And that's not an option.

Alternatively, we encourage clones.

My reasoning for it would be so ganon wouldnt be such a terrible character (moveset wise) and even if that happened i dont think falcon would be completely changed but im sure both will have some new moves anyways

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The reason there were so many clones in Melee was because they were rushed to release and fell behind in development.

The reason in Brawl is not entirely on being rushed (they were behind on development and had to quickly finish, much like with Melee) but more on lazy writing.

Okay, 1, you didn't answer my question. And 2, what does writing have to do with character movesets? I assume you mean character design.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I guess he means they didn't bother too much with Ganon cause they felt he'd already be recieved well enough with just those small changes. For Falco, it worked. For Ganon, it didn't.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol, Melee got clones because it was rushed?

It was the opposite. There was extra time and Sakurai felt the lineup was too short. So he added several "model swap" characters (as he calls them) to help boost it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Which raises an interessting question: if Ganondorf did not appear in Melee, (and King Dedede would've filled in the spot for those clone characters) you think Ganondorf would've been in Brawl? I'm guessing not actually...