MEXICAN
Smash Lord
Okay....I added my input, everything I added is underlined. Enjoy the read. lol
Pros-
Fantastic grab game
Good range
Above average recovery
Heavy (harder to kill)
Some characters overestimate his weight/fallspeed and mess up combos.
Rarely used!!!!
2 Frame invincible move (Up B)
Solid Edgeguarding
Also one of the few characters that can ko off the top
Also has a LOT of options for ko moves
High priority spammable move (b air)
Cons-
Combo bag
Very weak spam, mostly to Falco's lasers
When facing torwards the opponent, he has very little options in terms of safely approaching
Horrible shield -> weak to shield pressure
Struggles to combo a few lighter characters
DK's Moves
Ground Moves
First jab isn't too bad. It's good for throwing off an opponent or jab resetting. I sometimes use it after a d tilt because it can sometimes catch people trying to punish the lag from the d tilt...which is virtually non existent, but most people don't know that. lol. The second part of the jab should just about never be used. It has SO much more lag after the second hit. A combo that I do that has worked in the past is l cancelled n air into a d tilt, then jab immediately after, and then f tilt after that. I'd recommend using f tilt as a second hit to supplement the jab.
Slap-away: Forward Tilt
Damage: " "
Speed: Medium
Priority: Medium
Range: High
Start Time: Medium
Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to bring his arm back
completely you can move again.
Knockback: Medium
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
A very underestimated move. It has very good range and works well when used after a missed Bair that fell short. When I say this, picture a Fox dash dance camping DK. DK tries to hit with a Back air, but the move missed when he did a dash the other way. Now Fox is going to dash in and Nair/grab. The Forward tilt will catch him before he can hit you. On it's own, it hits the enemy a good distance away and it's solid in spacing wars, even against characters such as Marth. Be careful not to randomly spam it of course and be "creative" of how you use it, the move isn't that quick and if miss spaced, DK is in a world of trouble. For example I love to use this move after a short hop + waveland, simply out of a wavedash, or after a Bair. But you'll never see me using it very often.
I personally don't like f tilt after a missed b air over another just dashing away and doing another b air...at least not against fox.. Maybe against someone like sheik...but DK isn't so hot on the ground, I prefer to take the game to the air whenever possible. F tilt IS a good move though. It's good if you need a quick hit with a good distance when you don't have time to land a grab... You can combo with it as well after a n air. If you're doing an u air juggle on a fast faller, and they always di to your front, you can do a n air into a f tilt, and there's another variation with a dash attack that i'll go over later. It's also, just a flat out "get back" move. It's rather effective against characters like ganon that short hop a lot.
Overhead Smack: Up Tilt
Damage: " "
Speed: Fast
Priority: Medium
Range: Medium
Start Time: Fast
Lag Time: Virtually nonexistent <----I disagree. there's enough lag to make comboing after not guaranteed. You have to wait for dk to face back forward
Knockback: Medium
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
Another underestimated move but doesn't have as much use as the previous tilt. Many players refrain from using it, but I pretictally like it because of it's speed and nice range (range that extents in back of DK). As previously mentioned in the forward tilt section, it can be used after the Back air in the same exact way (of course you don't turn around like you do with the Ftilt since you're using the back part of the move for range). I learned this from watching Rockcrock's DK and slowly incorparated it into my playstyle.
Reasons why you may throw it out instead of the Ftilt:
It can combo into a grab or Up air (not at lower percents though)
Faster
Reasons why you may throw out the Ftilt instead:
More range
Isn't percent dependant for effectiveness
Other then that, Uptilt usage is surprisingly tight, since you should be turned around and it's a ground move. You may throw it out a few times when simply turned around and the opponent does an obvious approach, but it's situations like those where you can simply dash dance and grab.
You guys already know that this isn't a move i'm too fond of. I believe RockCrock is a better DK player than i am, and if he uses it effectively, then he'd probably be the better person to get some insight on this move from. I DO however...like using it after a missed Giant punch..If they manage to roll behind you when you giant punch or something, or try wavedashing/running in to punish the lag (which again, is almost non existent and most others don't know that). It catches them pretty well, and if you are playing on a platformed stage, and they land on it, it's combo time =D
Duck Slap: Down Tilt
Damage: " "
Speed: Fast
Priority: Medium
Range: Medium
Start Time: Fast
Lag Time: Medium
Knockback: Medium
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: "
This move has decent range and speed, but unfortunately can't be canceled like Marth's/Roy's. It's a nice move when used on opponents trying to sweetspot the edge. As an approach, it's pretty much the only ground option DK has when running forwards besides a grab, shield, or rare dash A. As an approach it's pretty decent, but you're not guaranteed anything else after throwing it out since there's no setup. I never find myself using it outside of edgeguarding, but I'm sure there can be more to say about it ***
I LOVE the d tilt. It's DK's best "jab" type move. DK's normal jab doesn't have enough knockback to let you get away, but the d tilt is very fast and DOES knock them far enough back to let you get away. It's the best move to use to guard yourself after a shielded or missed aerial. It's also stupidly good for edgeguarding. It will always hit fox/falco's forward b recovery, and always hits a falcon/ganon out of their up b.
Smellingsalt: Foward Smash
Damage: " "
Speed: Slow
Priority: Decent
Range: Medium
Start Time: Slow
Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to return to his original stance again.
Knockback: High
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
Charge frame: " "
Arguably the coolest smash attack in the game. It has nice knockback, good range, but it's pretty slow. However, it isn't Bowser-like speed, so in a few occasions, you can pull out a surprise factor on your opponent, but I wouldn't recommend it. I use it when comboing Fast fallers on edgeguarding people who aren't sweetspotting. On platform stages like Yoshistories, it's harder to combo a Fast faller. What I like to do is chaingrab them on the left or right platform into a forward smash. The forward smash lands on them from like, ~50 to ~65%. I want to say 70, but I'm not to sure. For edgeguarding, I love to down tilt Falcons and Ganondorfs to mess up their sweetspot and they will almost always try to just land on stage. This makes them easy charged Fsmash bait. A perfect example can be seen in RockCrock vs Scar.
Yeah...not much more to say...It comes out fairly quickly after a b air, and sometimes you can catch someone trying to wavedash in after. I almost never use it unless I'm getting desperate and hoping that I get lucky. lol. Biggest use is what you already said, f smash after a cargo u throw on platformed stages.
Overhead Clap: Up smash
Damage: " "
Speed: Slow
Priority: Low
Range: Medium
Start Time: Slow
Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to return to his original stance again.
Knockback: High
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
Charge frame: " "
A pretty horrible up smash, since it only hits directly above DK + it's slow. This move is pretty much only effectively used as a finisher on a faster faller after a cargo up throw around ~80%+
I believe DK's hands are invincible during this move...but yeah...terrible up smash. It has good knockback, but it's stupidly difficult to land, and is easily punished. I sometimes use it after a successful d air on a fast faller. Like if they fall on the top platform, i'll jump to make them think i'm going to try to u air them through the stage, getting them to "wake up", and then i'll use my second jump to get above the platform and d air. If that lands, i charge the u smash as long as I can. I've gotten kills this way before...
Kong’s Judgment: Down Smash
Damage: " "
Speed: Fast
Priority: Decent
Range: Medium
Start Time: Fast
Lag Time: Slow
Knockback: High
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
Charge frame: " "
It's relatively fast and hits whatever is close to DK. The KOing factor is rather poor, but it's nice when used out of a crouch cancel (similar to what Samus can do). Unfortunately, the lag time on this move is prolly the longest out of all of his smashes. You shouldn't be using this much since crouch cancel to grab is almost always a better option.
I love this move against a fox. Fox players love to short hop sex kick you and land behind you and dash away. If you crouch cancel the sex kick and d smash, it'll catch the fox. If they're at high enough damage, you even have a chance to kill them. If nothing else, it puts them in the air and you below them, which is a pretty good spot to be in. It's just in general, a good crouch cancelled move.
Okayyy....so the dash attack part. I love the dash attack. My favorite stage to play at is pokemon stadium and dash attack is great there. First of all, dash attack is GREAT for beating/exchanging with all of fox's moves. If it exchanges, it's even better than if you just flat out win at lower damages. You can crouch cancel while doing your dash attack, and if you get sex kicked and crouch cancel it, fox goes flying up from your dash attack, while your lag is completely cancelled out because you got hit, thus giving you a free chance to follow up with an u air, or whatever move you feel like using. Even if you don't get that setup, if the fox gets hit, he will more often than not, land on top of the platform, giving you almost guaranteed u airs that can set up a combo for you. It's also great for disrupting dash attacks because foxes and others generally wait until they see you stop dash dancing to break their dash dance. When you do your dash attack, your leg hangs out there for a pretty good amount of time. They run into it quite a bit. It's also pretty good at going through shields.
Also, as i mentioned before, it can be used after a n air. You can do the u air combos into a nair, and do that into a dash attack. This sometimes comes out pretty sexy, because you can sometimes even do an up b after that. N air->dash attack->up b is really sexy. I pull it off once in awhile, but it's never been recorded, otherwise I would show you a reference.
I thought about making a combo video against a dummy just to show the possibilities of what DK can do...I've done so many different types of combos, but they're just so situational that some i've only ever used once in my history of smash. lol. But the more variations you know, the more you can change your combos to suit your opponents di or the shape or location of the stage. Maybe, one of these days I'll get to house with one of you more computer savvy dk players, and we can make such a video before/after/during a major tournament. I think it'll be pretty helpful to newer or even experienced dk players. I'm sure most of those combos have never been seen by just about anybody. Nedech's combo into a f smash is a good example...that'll just about NEVER work, but in that situation, it did. lol.
Btw NJ, I think you should just create the thread for it now so we can have all of the discussion in the same thread as the new guide so people reading can see our reasoning behind why we say what we say. By the way, you should add in the intro somewhere, that first and foremost, the best way to get better is to watch good dk players, and practice, practice, practice. Practicing against better people than you is the best way to get better.
Pros-
Fantastic grab game
Good range
Above average recovery
Heavy (harder to kill)
Some characters overestimate his weight/fallspeed and mess up combos.
Rarely used!!!!
2 Frame invincible move (Up B)
Solid Edgeguarding
Also one of the few characters that can ko off the top
Also has a LOT of options for ko moves
High priority spammable move (b air)
Cons-
Combo bag
Very weak spam, mostly to Falco's lasers
When facing torwards the opponent, he has very little options in terms of safely approaching
Horrible shield -> weak to shield pressure
Struggles to combo a few lighter characters
DK's Moves
Ground Moves
First jab isn't too bad. It's good for throwing off an opponent or jab resetting. I sometimes use it after a d tilt because it can sometimes catch people trying to punish the lag from the d tilt...which is virtually non existent, but most people don't know that. lol. The second part of the jab should just about never be used. It has SO much more lag after the second hit. A combo that I do that has worked in the past is l cancelled n air into a d tilt, then jab immediately after, and then f tilt after that. I'd recommend using f tilt as a second hit to supplement the jab.
Slap-away: Forward Tilt
Damage: " "
Speed: Medium
Priority: Medium
Range: High
Start Time: Medium
Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to bring his arm back
completely you can move again.
Knockback: Medium
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
A very underestimated move. It has very good range and works well when used after a missed Bair that fell short. When I say this, picture a Fox dash dance camping DK. DK tries to hit with a Back air, but the move missed when he did a dash the other way. Now Fox is going to dash in and Nair/grab. The Forward tilt will catch him before he can hit you. On it's own, it hits the enemy a good distance away and it's solid in spacing wars, even against characters such as Marth. Be careful not to randomly spam it of course and be "creative" of how you use it, the move isn't that quick and if miss spaced, DK is in a world of trouble. For example I love to use this move after a short hop + waveland, simply out of a wavedash, or after a Bair. But you'll never see me using it very often.
I personally don't like f tilt after a missed b air over another just dashing away and doing another b air...at least not against fox.. Maybe against someone like sheik...but DK isn't so hot on the ground, I prefer to take the game to the air whenever possible. F tilt IS a good move though. It's good if you need a quick hit with a good distance when you don't have time to land a grab... You can combo with it as well after a n air. If you're doing an u air juggle on a fast faller, and they always di to your front, you can do a n air into a f tilt, and there's another variation with a dash attack that i'll go over later. It's also, just a flat out "get back" move. It's rather effective against characters like ganon that short hop a lot.
Overhead Smack: Up Tilt
Damage: " "
Speed: Fast
Priority: Medium
Range: Medium
Start Time: Fast
Lag Time: Virtually nonexistent <----I disagree. there's enough lag to make comboing after not guaranteed. You have to wait for dk to face back forward
Knockback: Medium
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
Another underestimated move but doesn't have as much use as the previous tilt. Many players refrain from using it, but I pretictally like it because of it's speed and nice range (range that extents in back of DK). As previously mentioned in the forward tilt section, it can be used after the Back air in the same exact way (of course you don't turn around like you do with the Ftilt since you're using the back part of the move for range). I learned this from watching Rockcrock's DK and slowly incorparated it into my playstyle.
Reasons why you may throw it out instead of the Ftilt:
It can combo into a grab or Up air (not at lower percents though)
Faster
Reasons why you may throw out the Ftilt instead:
More range
Isn't percent dependant for effectiveness
Other then that, Uptilt usage is surprisingly tight, since you should be turned around and it's a ground move. You may throw it out a few times when simply turned around and the opponent does an obvious approach, but it's situations like those where you can simply dash dance and grab.
You guys already know that this isn't a move i'm too fond of. I believe RockCrock is a better DK player than i am, and if he uses it effectively, then he'd probably be the better person to get some insight on this move from. I DO however...like using it after a missed Giant punch..If they manage to roll behind you when you giant punch or something, or try wavedashing/running in to punish the lag (which again, is almost non existent and most others don't know that). It catches them pretty well, and if you are playing on a platformed stage, and they land on it, it's combo time =D
Duck Slap: Down Tilt
Damage: " "
Speed: Fast
Priority: Medium
Range: Medium
Start Time: Fast
Lag Time: Medium
Knockback: Medium
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: "
This move has decent range and speed, but unfortunately can't be canceled like Marth's/Roy's. It's a nice move when used on opponents trying to sweetspot the edge. As an approach, it's pretty much the only ground option DK has when running forwards besides a grab, shield, or rare dash A. As an approach it's pretty decent, but you're not guaranteed anything else after throwing it out since there's no setup. I never find myself using it outside of edgeguarding, but I'm sure there can be more to say about it ***
I LOVE the d tilt. It's DK's best "jab" type move. DK's normal jab doesn't have enough knockback to let you get away, but the d tilt is very fast and DOES knock them far enough back to let you get away. It's the best move to use to guard yourself after a shielded or missed aerial. It's also stupidly good for edgeguarding. It will always hit fox/falco's forward b recovery, and always hits a falcon/ganon out of their up b.
Smellingsalt: Foward Smash
Damage: " "
Speed: Slow
Priority: Decent
Range: Medium
Start Time: Slow
Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to return to his original stance again.
Knockback: High
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
Charge frame: " "
Arguably the coolest smash attack in the game. It has nice knockback, good range, but it's pretty slow. However, it isn't Bowser-like speed, so in a few occasions, you can pull out a surprise factor on your opponent, but I wouldn't recommend it. I use it when comboing Fast fallers on edgeguarding people who aren't sweetspotting. On platform stages like Yoshistories, it's harder to combo a Fast faller. What I like to do is chaingrab them on the left or right platform into a forward smash. The forward smash lands on them from like, ~50 to ~65%. I want to say 70, but I'm not to sure. For edgeguarding, I love to down tilt Falcons and Ganondorfs to mess up their sweetspot and they will almost always try to just land on stage. This makes them easy charged Fsmash bait. A perfect example can be seen in RockCrock vs Scar.
Yeah...not much more to say...It comes out fairly quickly after a b air, and sometimes you can catch someone trying to wavedash in after. I almost never use it unless I'm getting desperate and hoping that I get lucky. lol. Biggest use is what you already said, f smash after a cargo u throw on platformed stages.
Overhead Clap: Up smash
Damage: " "
Speed: Slow
Priority: Low
Range: Medium
Start Time: Slow
Lag Time: Noticeable after the initial hit. You must wait for DK to return to his original stance again.
Knockback: High
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
Charge frame: " "
A pretty horrible up smash, since it only hits directly above DK + it's slow. This move is pretty much only effectively used as a finisher on a faster faller after a cargo up throw around ~80%+
I believe DK's hands are invincible during this move...but yeah...terrible up smash. It has good knockback, but it's stupidly difficult to land, and is easily punished. I sometimes use it after a successful d air on a fast faller. Like if they fall on the top platform, i'll jump to make them think i'm going to try to u air them through the stage, getting them to "wake up", and then i'll use my second jump to get above the platform and d air. If that lands, i charge the u smash as long as I can. I've gotten kills this way before...
Kong’s Judgment: Down Smash
Damage: " "
Speed: Fast
Priority: Decent
Range: Medium
Start Time: Fast
Lag Time: Slow
Knockback: High
Total frames: " "
Hit frames: " "
Charge frame: " "
It's relatively fast and hits whatever is close to DK. The KOing factor is rather poor, but it's nice when used out of a crouch cancel (similar to what Samus can do). Unfortunately, the lag time on this move is prolly the longest out of all of his smashes. You shouldn't be using this much since crouch cancel to grab is almost always a better option.
I love this move against a fox. Fox players love to short hop sex kick you and land behind you and dash away. If you crouch cancel the sex kick and d smash, it'll catch the fox. If they're at high enough damage, you even have a chance to kill them. If nothing else, it puts them in the air and you below them, which is a pretty good spot to be in. It's just in general, a good crouch cancelled move.
Okayyy....so the dash attack part. I love the dash attack. My favorite stage to play at is pokemon stadium and dash attack is great there. First of all, dash attack is GREAT for beating/exchanging with all of fox's moves. If it exchanges, it's even better than if you just flat out win at lower damages. You can crouch cancel while doing your dash attack, and if you get sex kicked and crouch cancel it, fox goes flying up from your dash attack, while your lag is completely cancelled out because you got hit, thus giving you a free chance to follow up with an u air, or whatever move you feel like using. Even if you don't get that setup, if the fox gets hit, he will more often than not, land on top of the platform, giving you almost guaranteed u airs that can set up a combo for you. It's also great for disrupting dash attacks because foxes and others generally wait until they see you stop dash dancing to break their dash dance. When you do your dash attack, your leg hangs out there for a pretty good amount of time. They run into it quite a bit. It's also pretty good at going through shields.
Also, as i mentioned before, it can be used after a n air. You can do the u air combos into a nair, and do that into a dash attack. This sometimes comes out pretty sexy, because you can sometimes even do an up b after that. N air->dash attack->up b is really sexy. I pull it off once in awhile, but it's never been recorded, otherwise I would show you a reference.
I thought about making a combo video against a dummy just to show the possibilities of what DK can do...I've done so many different types of combos, but they're just so situational that some i've only ever used once in my history of smash. lol. But the more variations you know, the more you can change your combos to suit your opponents di or the shape or location of the stage. Maybe, one of these days I'll get to house with one of you more computer savvy dk players, and we can make such a video before/after/during a major tournament. I think it'll be pretty helpful to newer or even experienced dk players. I'm sure most of those combos have never been seen by just about anybody. Nedech's combo into a f smash is a good example...that'll just about NEVER work, but in that situation, it did. lol.
Btw NJ, I think you should just create the thread for it now so we can have all of the discussion in the same thread as the new guide so people reading can see our reasoning behind why we say what we say. By the way, you should add in the intro somewhere, that first and foremost, the best way to get better is to watch good dk players, and practice, practice, practice. Practicing against better people than you is the best way to get better.
