gay marriage

[BOB SAGET!]

so solid do u believe its right or wrong.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I stated my opinion earlier in the thread, I'm for the legalization of gay marriage.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

well in canada its already legal. frankly i dont care if its approved or not in the us or it gets changed in Canada i just don't approve of it.

 

[|RK|]

This is off topic, but I don't see what's wrong with less babies being born, the Earth needs less people, we're overpopulating the world, just look at China for example.

'Tis better than killing babies...

 

[Lovely]

...you know, legalizing gay marriage will not turn people gay.

True, you got me there. But you can't help but know the possibility of followers from your relatives or your friends. But as this post just stated, those are only possibilities for what motive they might have for turning gay.

 

[RDK]

'Tis better than killing babies...

Having an abortion is not killing a baby.

 

[Lixivium]

Having an abortion is not killing a baby.

Well there are actual infanticides (mostly girls) in China in addition to abortions. Don't assume everything RK says is from a viewpoint of Christian fundamentalism.

 

[Miggz]

Having an abortion is not killing a baby.

There is something about abortions I still don't like. Maybe it cause I am a science student. Basically, I was taught that the smallest unit of life are cells. So when you talk abortions, you are simply killing/destroying that bundle of cells.

I don't feel terribly strong about it, but I still can't help but feel its still killing to some degree...

 

[Zero Beat]

Okay Miggz, what do you have to say about sperm cells? If you're going to mention science, and call yourself a science student, let's try to stay consistent.

Why does abortion make you feel like it's killing someone but an orgasm doesn't? Just trying to help you understand your problem.

Edit: We're talking about cells, right?

 

[RDK]

Perhaps it would be better if somebody took it upon themselves to make a separate thread for the discussion of abortion.

 

[Miggz]

I vaguely remember a post about that on here somewhere. I will look for it real quick and revive it. XD

 

[Nysyarc]

True, you got me there. But you can't help but know the possibility of followers from your relatives or your friends. But as this post just stated, those are only possibilities for what motive they might have for turning gay.

Even if more people 'turned' gay at the legalization of gay marriage, what realistic problems would that really pose? I wouldn't mind if several of my family members came out of the closet tomorrow, so they like the same sex? Big deal. Not legalizing gay marriage is like preventing a left-handed person from writing with their left hand. They can use their right hand but it's uncomfortable and they don't enjoy it at all. They can do other things with their left hand, but they don't feel complete without being able to write with it.

Marriage is important in many people's lives, and denying gay people marriage is, in my opinion, one of the biggest rational errors of our time. I support legalizing gay marriage because there is absolutely no viable reason not to, as far as I can tell.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

True, you got me there. But you can't help but know the possibility of followers from your relatives or your friends. But as this post just stated, those are only possibilities for what motive they might have for turning gay.

But people don't just randomly "turn gay" for randomly...

People are born gay, you can't just say "Hey, I'm going to be gay now" and then automatically be attracted to the same sex if you were straight in the first place.

 

[Nysyarc]

But people don't just randomly "turn gay" for randomly... People are born gay

Actually, most people who are gay only realize or come to terms with it by around the age of 17 to 18, sometimes older. In most cases, a boy who is gay (for example) will have a girlfriend in high school and will be content. When he reaches university however, he realizes that he is no longer interested in the opposite sex.

It's very rare for someone to be openly gay from birth. Whether they were always gay and just didn't understand (because obviously they would see men with women everywhere, so a child would assume that being gay is wrong), or they honestly 'became' gay at an older age, is debatable. I believe that it is the latter, because if the only reason they hid their homosexuality was because of childhood ignorance, they would realize their mistake sooner than 17 or 18; and they would not be able to happily keep up a charade of having a partner of the opposite sex for that long.

 

[Aesir]

Actually, most people who are gay only realize or come to terms with it by around the age of 17 to 18, sometimes older. In most cases, a boy who is gay (for example) will have a girlfriend in high school and will be content. When he reaches university however, he realizes that he is no longer interested in the opposite sex.

It's very rare for someone to be openly gay from birth. Whether they were always gay and just didn't understand (because obviously they would see men with women everywhere, so a child would assume that being gay is wrong), or they honestly 'became' gay at an older age, is debatable. I believe that it is the latter, because if the only reason they hid their homosexuality was because of childhood ignorance, they would realize their mistake sooner than 17 or 18; and they would not be able to happily keep up a charade of having a partner of the opposite sex for that long.

I'm pretty sure that's what the person whom you're replying to was saying, people are born gay. Considering there's a lot of scientific evidence to support the claim that homosexuality is a genetic thing as opposed to a choice.

 

[Lovely]

Even if more people 'turned' gay at the legalization of gay marriage, what realistic problems would that really pose? I wouldn't mind if several of my family members came out of the closet tomorrow, so they like the same sex? Big deal. Not legalizing gay marriage is like preventing a left-handed person from writing with their left hand. They can use their right hand but it's uncomfortable and they don't enjoy it at all. They can do other things with their left hand, but they don't feel complete without being able to write with it.

Marriage is important in many people's lives, and denying gay people marriage is, in my opinion, one of the biggest rational errors of our time. I support legalizing gay marriage because there is absolutely no viable reason not to, as far as I can tell.

It would really pose a problem to those who don't think of gays or lesbians as equal people or just don't like them for who they are, (which is a large number of people). Of course some people wouldn't mind gays to get married like straight people getting married but there is still a large number of people that strongly disagrees because most of those people go by the code of the Bible and only thinks that a marriage should be with a man and a woman, (of course I'm stating the obvious because that logic has been overused for years).

While marriage it self is an important way of expressing true love, (despite the high level of divorces over the years), you can't help but know that there are a lot of people and many areas of this world who won't allow gay marriage.

But people don't just randomly "turn gay" for randomly...

People are born gay, you can't just say "Hey, I'm going to be gay now" and then automatically be attracted to the same sex if you were straight in the first place.

I didn't say they might randomly turn gay, I said they might have a motive for turning gay. For example a straight female that date a guy, but somehow that guy broke her heart, she goes find a next guy, he turns out to be much better hearted than the last guy, he turns out to be dead by someone, she's broken hearted again, then she goes to the next guy, this new guy nearly kills her because he might be drunk or so. After those experience you would be scared for life as this girl was, she can't find an answer and she might be utterly confused. She could choose death, she could be in deep depression, or she could be done with dating guys for life because of her past experience.

Also, I never saw proof of gays or lesbians being born that way, that sounds way too fictional for me.

Considering there's a lot of scientific evidence to support the claim that homosexuality is a genetic thing as opposed to a choice.

I guess I'm going to need a source of this info from you. But I guess I can look up this for my own and see if it's true, (even though it's nearly 2 in the morning so I look it up later). I still have heavy doubt that this truly excise though.

 

[Lixivium]

It would really pose a problem to those who don't think of gays or lesbians as equal people or just don't like them for who they are, (which is a large number of people). Of course some people wouldn't mind gays to get married like straight people getting married but there is still a large number of people that strongly disagrees because most of those people go by the code of the Bible and only thinks that a marriage should be with a man and a woman, (of course I'm stating the obvious because that logic has been overused for years).

While marriage it self is an important way of expressing true love, (despite the high level of divorces over the years), you can't help but know that there are a lot of people and many areas of this world who won't allow gay marriage.

Sorry but "some people won't like it" is not a valid argument. "Some people" didn't like integration, interracial marriage, voting rights for women, etc. If you think the right to marry who you want is a fundamental right then it can't be denied on the basis of popular opinion.

I didn't say they might randomly turn gay, I said they might have a motive for turning gay. For example a straight female that date a guy, but somehow that guy broke her heart, she goes find a next guy, he turns out to be much better hearted than the last guy, he turns out to be dead by someone, she's broken hearted again, then she goes to the next guy, this new guy nearly kills her because he might be drunk or so. After those experience you would be scared for life as this girl was, she can't find an answer and she might be utterly confused. She could choose death, she could be in deep depression, or she could be done with dating guys for life because of her past experience.

This is absolutely ridiculous. What you describe could just as easily happen with a girl who dated girls. If people turned gay just because of romantic failures with the opposite sex, there would be a LOT more gay people out there.

Also, I never saw proof of gays or lesbians being born that way, that sounds way too fictional for me.
I guess I'm going to need a source of this info from you. But I guess I can look up this for my own and see if it's true, (even though it's nearly 2 in the morning so I look it up later). I still have heavy doubt that this truly excise though.

It really doesn't matter if you're "born gay", it ends up being who you are by the time most people go through puberty.

 

[Barge]

Out of my 2 cents, if it doesn't concern you, then you have no business with it

ie. Gay marriage hurts no one.

 

[Xsyven]

Even if more people 'turned' gay at the legalization of gay marriage, what realistic problems would that really pose? I wouldn't mind if several of my family members came out of the closet tomorrow, so they like the same sex? Big deal. Not legalizing gay marriage is like preventing a left-handed person from writing with their left hand. They can use their right hand but it's uncomfortable and they don't enjoy it at all. They can do other things with their left hand, but they don't feel complete without being able to write with it.

Marriage is important in many people's lives, and denying gay people marriage is, in my opinion, one of the biggest rational errors of our time. I support legalizing gay marriage because there is absolutely no viable reason not to, as far as I can tell.

This is one of the best examples I've heard in a while. Good job.

Actually, most people who are gay only realize or come to terms with it by around the age of 17 to 18, sometimes older. In most cases, a boy who is gay (for example) will have a girlfriend in high school and will be content. When he reaches university however, he realizes that he is no longer interested in the opposite sex.

It's very rare for someone to be openly gay from birth. Whether they were always gay and just didn't understand (because obviously they would see men with women everywhere, so a child would assume that being gay is wrong), or they honestly 'became' gay at an older age, is debatable. I believe that it is the latter, because if the only reason they hid their homosexuality was because of childhood ignorance, they would realize their mistake sooner than 17 or 18; and they would not be able to happily keep up a charade of having a partner of the opposite sex for that long.

This is sort of false. Most homosexuals notice they like the same sex around puberty, which is when you start getting sexually active, and hormones start firing everywhere. So anywhere between 11-14. What you're thinking of is a closet homosexual, who despite being gay, tries to date women to better fit in with society. It's never a "sudden realization" past the age 14. By then, you know what you like.

Being gay from birth is, well, impossible. You can't be straight from birth, either. Until you're sexually active, and can physically conceive, that's when you'd actually know.

Take myself for instance. I'm gay, and have liked other guys since 7th grade. It wasn't until I was 19 that I came to terms and actually started telling people. Between 7th grade, and my nineteenth birthday though, I pretended to like girls, since that was the norm, and I just wanted to be normal.

 

[Barge]

This is sort of false. Most homosexuals notice they like the same sex around puberty, which is when you start getting sexually active, and hormones start firing everywhere. So anywhere between 11-14. What you're thinking of is a closet homosexual, who despite being gay, tries to date women to better fit in with society. It's never a "sudden realization" past the age 14. By then, you know what you like.

Being gay from birth is, well, impossible. You can't be straight from birth, either. Until you're sexually active, and can physically conceive, that's when you'd actually know.

Take myself for instance. I'm gay, and have liked other guys since 7th grade. It wasn't until I was 19 that I came to terms and actually started telling people. Between 7th grade, and my nineteenth birthday though, I pretended to like girls, since that was the norm, and I just wanted to be normal.

I agree, it's hard to believe some people talk about this like their professionals on it, when they have no idea what its like being homosexual.
I found out when I was 12, and only recently came to terms with it. I can easily say I did not choose to be gay. It would be hell of a lot easier just to be straight and not deal with the crap we get.

 

[Nysyarc]

This is sort of false. Most homosexuals notice they like the same sex around puberty, which is when you start getting sexually active, and hormones start firing everywhere. So anywhere between 11-14. What you're thinking of is a closet homosexual, who despite being gay, tries to date women to better fit in with society. It's never a "sudden realization" past the age 14. By then, you know what you like.

I agree, it's hard to believe some people talk about this like their professionals on it, when they have no idea what its like being homosexual.
I found out when I was 12, and only recently came to terms with it. I can easily say I did not choose to be gay. It would be hell of a lot easier just to be straight and not deal with the crap we get.

First I'd just like to say I apologize for any offense I may have unwillingly caused you guys I support gay marriage 100% and I don't mean to sound like a professional on the subject, because like you said Barge, it's not my place.

On the age thing, I knew it was the teens somewhere and I should have clued in that it was at puberty (it makes sense); I learned about it at a gay awareness and acceptance assembly in my old school... 7 or 8 years ago I think, so again, I apologize for my error.

Being gay from birth is, well, impossible. You can't be straight from birth, either. Until you're sexually active, and can physically conceive, that's when you'd actually know.

Yes, that's what I was trying to convey. Thank you for clarifying. And so technically you could say that a person 'becomes' gay or 'becomes' straight, because at first they are technically neither.

 

[Xsyven]

Yeah, I wasn't offended at anything. Like I said, your left handed example was pretty much spot on.

I just wanted to correct you, since you were unsure of the actual numbers.

 

[Barge]

Nysyarc, I wasn't referring to you ^^
I actually agree with you.

 

[RDK]

In response to one of Lovely's posts that I'm too lazy to quote...isn't there some statistic somewhere that shows that the majority of failed marriages (I.E., divorces) happen between Christian couples?

I could just be confusing it with something else, but I swear I've heard of a statistic that claims this.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I didn't say they might randomly turn gay, I said they might have a motive for turning gay. For example a straight female that date a guy, but somehow that guy broke her heart, she goes find a next guy, he turns out to be much better hearted than the last guy, he turns out to be dead by someone, she's broken hearted again, then she goes to the next guy, this new guy nearly kills her because he might be drunk or so. After those experience you would be scared for life as this girl was, she can't find an answer and she might be utterly confused. She could choose death, she could be in deep depression, or she could be done with dating guys for life because of her past experience.

I don't see what this has to do with anything.

My point is that you CANNOT "turn gay" after you "find out" whether or not you're attracted t the same sex. Even if you have a motive to, you cannot force yourself to become attracted to the same sex if you're straight, it doesn't work that way from what I've gathered on this thread. I'm not an expert by any means on the subject, Xsy, Barge, or someone else correct me if I'm wrong please.

Also, I never saw proof of gays or lesbians being born that way, that sounds way too fictional for me.

OK, well Xsyven kind of cleared that up, he knows better than I do. So going off what he says, people "discover" their homosexuality or lack thereof around puberty, and thus cannot "turn gay."

 

[Crimson King]

Maine is now awesome - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/maine-gay-marriage-legali_n_197850.html

 

[Lovely]

Sorry but "some people won't like it" is not a valid argument. "Some people" didn't like integration, interracial marriage, voting rights for women, etc. If you think the right to marry who you want is a fundamental right then it can't be denied on the basis of popular opinion.

I said a "large number of people" ;p

But I see your point, however more than 70% of this world is strongly towards religion however I don't have the proof that those 70% of people that are strongly against religion around the world are against gay marriage.

I just described one of a motive of turning gay, (sadly, this is based on a girl I know ): ). Also, what I just describe wasn't an "average" romantic failure, it was a major romantic failure. An average one would have a 5% or less chances of giving up dating your opposite sex, however an advance or major romantic failure will turn less than 5% to 45% or more. [/FONT]

It really doesn't matter if you're "born gay", it ends up being who you are by the time most people go through puberty.

You were support to show me proof of if being born gay come genetically because that post is what I asked. >.>

Mainly because I don't believe it's something that comes through puberty.

In response to one of Lovely's posts that I'm too lazy to quote...isn't there some statistic somewhere that shows that the majority of failed marriages (I.E., divorces) happen between Christian couples?

I could just be confusing it with something else, but I swear I've heard of a statistic that claims this.

Ah yes, a good number, (if not large), of christian couple divorces are higher than most other religions. I don't know the number of around the world because I have to count each country that supports christian, I'm pretty sure it's easy to count the christian divorce rate in the US though.

 

[w!zard]

You were support to show me proof of if being born gay come genetically because that post is what I asked. >.>

Mainly because I don't believe it's something that comes through puberty.

genetics governs what is going to happen under certain conditions, so almost everything about a living organism is governed partially by genetics. any property as large as sexual orientation will be influenced by genetics.

sexual orientation can be realized before puberty, but it is not a conscious choice.

 

[Barge]

Mainly because I don't believe it's something that comes through puberty.

Well it doesn't "develope" during puberty, it's there at birth. It's just intensified and discovered during puberty, when the sexual drive increases, you discover what you like.

If you want some proof about homosexuality, genes and choices and all, then watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj2-_tFXXT4

 

[BluePeachy100]

In my opinion, it's perfectly credible, and should be allowed, and accepted. Even though that will never be the case. People have their own beliefs, religions, family influence, ect.

I think the people who give them the worst treatment in this case are religious people. They go as far as persecuting people for being in love. Even if it is wrong by your God's standards, people who are gay shouldn't be treated so badly by those who don't believe in it. Feelings are still feelings, and if a man has feelings, or loves another man, they should be able to be happy together, and not have to suffer what for their beliefs. After all, Christians(because it is mostly that religion) do not suffer for what they believe in, for the most part anyway. Why should gays, and lesbiens be treated any differently?

I think gay marriage should be allowed, because if love for another is wrong, then eveyrone who has fallen in love is in the wrong. Love is an emotion that knows no gender, love doesn't care if it's another guy, or girl you're with. Love only cares about fulfilling the happiness of one another. Who are anti-gays to try to take away love, anyway?

 

[Lovely]

genetics Governs What Is Going To Happen Under Certain Conditions, So Almost Everything About A Living Organism Is Governed Partially By Genetics. Any Property As Large As Sexual Orientation Will Be Influenced By Genetics.

Sexual Orientation Can Be Realized Before Puberty, But It Is Not A Conscious Choice.

本当ですか？私はこの後の詳細についてのドキュメントを検索する必要があります。

Well it doesn't "develope" during puberty, it's there at birth. It's just intensified and discovered during puberty, when the sexual drive increases, you discover what you like.

If you want some proof about homosexuality, genes and choices and all, then watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj2-_tFXXT4

I'm surprised at how many years has passed and very little information about this is known. Even though I saw the video, I still have to look for proof for myself. Hmm, I've posted in this thread too often, I guess I'll find another thread to post on.

 

[Barge]

I'm surprised at how many years has passed and very little information about this is known. Even though I saw the video, I still have to look for proof for myself. Hmm, I've posted in this thread too often, I guess I'll find another thread to post on.

I do agree there is still not that much proof on the topic of genes, but it should be more than enough to cover most arguments and convince enough people. And the fact that it occurs in nature, with (almost) every mammal, is even more proof. Animals aren't going to "choose" to like the same sex, especially if they lack higher intelligence.

 

[w!zard]

本当ですか？私はこの後の詳細についてのドキュメントを検索する必要があります。

...im not japanese.

and yes, it's true. ask your biology teacher if you're doubting it.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I just described one of a motive of turning gay, (sadly, this is based on a girl I know ): ). Also, what I just describe wasn't an "average" romantic failure, it was a major romantic failure. An average one would have a 5% or less chances of giving up dating your opposite sex, however an advance or major romantic failure will turn less than 5% to 45% or more.

Can you show me a legitimate site with that statistic?

 

[L666]

Yes, allow gay marriage. Why the hell not?
As to whether it is a conscious decision, why does it matter?