General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[TheLake]

OMg I need to post in here more :D

Very big final fantasy fan

Currently (rather finally) playing 13

Heard alot of mixed reviews

So far theres alot of things I like

few things i dislike...

will post more as i progress further

Great job with the characters so far IMO

very good job emotionally investing you in the characters, which the other games sort of lacked.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

Final Fantasy XI?

Lol?

Smooth Criminal

I play Final Fantasy XIV every day.

Come at me, bro.

Yuna

 

[Pluvia]

My Tuesday and Wednesday this week:

Wake up, go to work, come home play FFXIII-2, go to bed.

 

[Sol9000]

Not counting fanboys, what is the general opinion of Final Fantasy games? Which are considered the better and which are the worst...

 

[finalark]

Not counting fanboys, what is the general opinion of Final Fantasy games? Which are considered the better and which are the worst...

Step into a room with three different FF fans and ask them which one is the best, which one is the worst and what their opinion is on each game and prepare for about 21 different answers.

Anyways, got ff5 for free a while back on psn...considering playing it :3

FF5 is grindy as hell but pretty fun if you have the time.

OMg I need to post in here more :D

Very big final fantasy fan

Currently (rather finally) playing 13

Heard alot of mixed reviews

So far theres alot of things I like

few things i dislike...

In terms of game play FFXIII is almost word for word FFX. So if you liked X you'll probably like XIII.

 

[Sol9000]

Step into a room with three different FF fans and ask them which one is the best, which one is the worst and what their opinion is on each game and prepare for about 21 different answers.

They're opinion on EVERY game? A little long, don't you think?

I'll just ask the first 2 questions and take notes for everyone...

Now That You Mention It, I don't think I know anyone who plays Final Fantasy irl...

 

[Lythium]

I think finalark means it in the sense that FF fans rarely agree on which is the best, worst, etc. Too many personal opinions to consider.

 

[Rutger]

Great: FFIV, FFIX, FFVI

Good: FFXII

Bad: FFX, FFXIII

Haven't played: the rest.

Best Square game: Chrono Trigger


Yep, at least half of my list will be controversial. :/

In general I see VI, VII, and X thrown around the most as the "the best". Every game has its haters though, the series as a whole has a lot of haters as well, but that's not too surprising imo because every game changes up the formula so there are going to be a lot of "RUINED FOREVER!!!" people out there. I would say that II, X-2, and maybe VIII get called "the worst" the most.

It's still the most popular JRPG series in the US(though maybe Pokemon is more popular now, I'm not sure.)

 

[LivewiresXe]

I'll get in on this with the ones I've played. That of course includes: FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXIII, Crisis Core and Tactics.


Great: FFVI, FFVIII, FFX

Good: FFIX, Tactics, FFVII

Alright: FFIV, Crisis Core

Meh: FFV

What happened?: FFXIII


Also play: Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Front Mission 3, Xenogears

 

[Yazz]

FFVII is tied with FFX for my favorite. although ive played through VII countless times. i still love the characters and story of FFX even if tidus is a whiny *****.

 

[Minato]

My tier of games would go something like

Top: FFVI, FFVII
High: FFIV, FFV, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX
Good: FFIII, FFXII
Meh: FFXIII

Chrono Trigger for my absolute favorite Square RPG. Chrono Cross for most beautiful in terms of music and graphics for its time. Honorable mentions would be Seiken Densetsu 3, Legend of Mana, and Brave Fencer Musashi.

Spoiler

I'll start on Xenogears and the Parasite Eves eventually...

i still love the characters and story of FFX even if tidus is a whiny *****.

I agree. After my second playthrough though, I actually did like Tidus. I realized I'd be a whiny ***** if I was in his situation.

 

[finalark]

They're opinion on EVERY game? A little long, don't you think?

I'll just ask the first 2 questions and take notes for everyone...

Now That You Mention It, I don't think I know anyone who plays Final Fantasy irl...

I like being vocal about my opinion so I'll tell you what I think about FF for your thingy. IMO FFs are split into weaker FFs and stronger FFs. Here's my list.

Strong: 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13
Weak: 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11

I haven't played 14.

 

[Lythium]

I pretty much agree with finalark's assessment. Although, I'd throw 12 into weak, and 8 into strong, but personal preference~

I'd also toss 13-2 into strong. :3c

 

[finalark]

I pretty much agree with finalark's assessment. Although, I'd throw 12 into weak, and 8 into strong, but personal preference~

The reason why I put 12 into strong but 8 into was game play. The story is pretty lackluster on both ends but at XII felt like it was trying something new by focusing on optional content which I really enjoyed. But that's just opinion. I'd probably place 8 into the strong category if Laguna was the protagonist.

I'd also toss 13-2 into strong. :3c

Haven't played it, everyone says its amazing. Although I'd consider it a spin-off.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'll rate my favorites...
















...when I get home.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Lythium]

The reason why I put 12 into strong but 8 into was game play. The story is pretty lackluster on both ends but at XII felt like it was trying something new by focusing on optional content which I really enjoyed. But that's just opinion. I'd probably place 8 into the strong category if Laguna was the protagonist.

Haven't played it, everyone says its amazing. Although I'd consider it a spin-off.

That's totally fair, haha.

I appreciate that XII was trying new things, but at the same time, it had some flaws that I couldn't overlook, I guess. Also, breaking VIII's Junction system was pretty fun. I agree with you about Laguna though.

 

[Rutger]

The world of Ivalice was enough for me to overlook XII's flaws, I love how it's designed.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I never really played XII, but everyone I know says it was the first time a Final Fantasy game didn't feel like one at all, and a bunch of people thought it was just really weird. That being said, I never have and never will get the hate for FFVIII. The angst thing wasn't as bad as Cloud or Tidus, the graphics were better than VII, the music was just as good as VII, and X, the plot was original for a FF game and still felt Final Fantasy-like, and well...Triple Triad was fun as hell, with the Junction system being a cool thing to have. As well as being something you could exploit if you learned how to.

 

[Minato]

I never really played XII, but everyone I know says it was the first time a Final Fantasy game didn't feel like one at all, and a bunch of people thought it was just really weird. That being said, I never have and never will get the hate for FFVIII. The angst thing wasn't as bad as Cloud or Tidus, the graphics were better than VII, the music was just as good as VII, and X, the plot was original for a FF game and still felt Final Fantasy-like, and well...Triple Triad was fun as hell, with the Junction system being a cool thing to have. As well as being something you could exploit if you learned how to.

Lots of people hated the junctioning and draw system I guess. I suppose they didn't know how to abuse it.

Legitimate flaws I saw in VIII were Squall kinda getting too lovesick towards the end, the plot twist about GFs that led them to

Spoiler

forgetting that they were all in the same orphanage

, and the junctioning system encouraging me to not use magic until boss fights.

I did enjoy how broken you could make the game. Once you get Siren, the game is a piece of cake.
I also liked how you could read Squall's thoughts throughout the story. I feel that if this game didn't come out right after VII, more people would have liked it and its cast.

 

[Lythium]

The world of Ivalice was enough for me to overlook XII's flaws, I love how it's designed.

I can appreciate that too.

I don't even know if I'd call XII a weak FF game. More like, it was just a game that I didn't care for. There were some things that I didn't like about it (the ending, battle system), but they weren't necessarily bad. Just not my cup of tea, I guess.

 

[finalark]

I never really played XII, but everyone I know says it was the first time a Final Fantasy game didn't feel like one at all, and a bunch of people thought it was just really weird.

FFXII abandoned the typical JRPG dialog and melodrama for the typical WRPG dialog and melodrama. On top of that the game's sizable world and sheer amount of side content the game encouraged you to do made it feel more like a WRPG than a JRPG. That's probably why most people didn't like it.

I personally thought it was awesome although if I could change anything about XII it would be to kick Panello and Vaan out (who literally only exist to please people who didn't want Basch to be the protagonist) and to either overhaul or completely get ride of the license system.

Now that I think about it, given the style of the game and the battle system, FFXII was basically FFXI offline but minus the job system from XI.

That being said, I never have and never will get the hate for FFVIII. The angst thing wasn't as bad as Cloud or Tidus, the graphics were better than VII, the music was just as good as VII, and X, the plot was original for a FF game and still felt Final Fantasy-like, and well...Triple Triad was fun as hell, with the Junction system being a cool thing to have. As well as being something you could exploit if you learned how to.

I don't know, for me I just couldn't care for the main story and I either hated or disliked the main cast. The game itself is perfectly fine on the game play side.

And I didn't dislike Squall because of "angst." He didn't show any angst at all, I didn't like him because he was emotionless and boring.

I feel that if this game didn't come out right after VII, more people would have liked it and its cast.

I don't know, I played VIII before VII and I still dislike the cast of VIII (then again, I also kinda dislike a lot of characters from VII too). I think its just preference.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I played VII a bit before VIII and I remember liking VIII a lot more but...then again, when I really got to playing it, I was like 14, lmao.

 

[Sol9000]

Great: FFIV, FFIX, FFVI

Good: FFXII

Bad: FFX, FFXIII

Haven't played: the rest.

Best Square game: Chrono Trigger


Yep, at least half of my list will be controversial. :/

In general I see VI, VII, and X thrown around the most as the "the best". Every game has its haters though, the series as a whole has a lot of haters as well, but that's not too surprising imo because every game changes up the formula so there are going to be a lot of "RUINED FOREVER!!!" people out there. I would say that II, X-2, and maybe VIII get called "the worst" the most.

It's still the most popular JRPG series in the US(though maybe Pokemon is more popular now, I'm not sure.)

Yeah, Pokemon's more Popular now...

I'll get in on this with the ones I've played. That of course includes: FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXIII, Crisis Core and Tactics.


Great: FFVI, FFVIII, FFX

Good: FFIX, Tactics, FFVII

Alright: FFIV, Crisis Core

Meh: FFV

What happened?: FFXIII


Also play: Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Front Mission 3, Xenogears

I'd prefer it if we just list the Final Fantasy Games, ty.

I like being vocal about my opinion so I'll tell you what I think about FF for your thingy. IMO FFs are split into weaker FFs and stronger FFs. Here's my list.

Strong: 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13
Weak: 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11

I haven't played 14.

Okay, not counting MMORPG's

I'll rate my favorites...
...when I get home.

Smooth Criminal

RESPECT...

 

[finalark]

Okay, not counting MMORPG's

Well I'm not saying XI's weak because its an MMORPG. I'm just saying its not a very good MMORPG.

 

[Sol9000]

Well I'm not saying XI's weak because its an MMORPG. I'm just saying its not a very good MMORPG.

Disreguard Final Fantasy MMORPGs reguardless

 

[finalark]

Yeah, Pokemon's more Popular now...

I just wanna throw out there that Pokemon has always outsold Final Fantasy.

For instance, the best selling FF game, FF7, sold 9.8 million copies. The best selling Pokemon game, Red/Blue, sold 20.08 million.

Sauces:

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Pokemon

 

[Rutger]

Yeah, that's not really that surprising.

But I also never really see Pokemon get used to represent JRPGs. I don't know, regardless of popularity FF still seems like the face of genre in general to me.

Even if they don't really make it that high on my list of favorite JRPGs. :/
And they will only continue to fall with each Atlus game I play.

 

[finalark]

And they will only continue to fall with each Atlus game I play.

Eh.... the only Atlus games I've played is Rivera (which is total balls), Persona 3 (which is just okay) and Persona 4.

Mother of God Persona 4 is awesome.

EDIT: And Pokemon isn't seen as an RPG because it isn't advertised as such and lakes the focus on story that JRPGs are known for.

 

[Rutger]

Persona 4 is one of my favorite games.

Took me a while to find that first game you mentioned, I assume Riviera. I never played it but it might be worth mentioning that Atlus USA localizes a ton of different games and Riviera was developed by a different company(Sting Entertainment.) yay Wikipedia!

I'm talking about Atlus developed games, pretty much their Megami Tensei games and the Etrian Odyssey series. Which are admittedly not for everyone. :/


Pokemon definitely doesn't have the large focus on the story as standard JRPGs tend to have, but it is still very linear and there really is no choice in how the story plays out. I would still call it a JRPG personally. I would gladly see Pokemon or Dragon Quest replace Final Fantasy as the "face" of JRPGs now outside of Japan, both of them capture the best of the genre right now and it can be sad to see people always say JRPGs are declining in quality with every mistake FF makes.

Hell, I think Persona 4 is one of the best things to happen to this strange little sub-genre of RPGs that we define by its country of origin.
And then FFXIII comes out and JRPGs are dead to most people.

But FF might always have that spot. :/

 

[finalark]

Persona 4 is one of my favorite games.

Took me a while to find that first game you mentioned, I assume Riviera. I never played it but it might be worth mentioning that Atlus USA localizes a ton of different games and Riviera was developed by a different company(Sting Entertainment.) yay Wikipedia!

I'm talking about Atlus developed games, pretty much their Megami Tensei games and the Etrian Odyssey series. Which are admittedly not for everyone. :/

Yep. That was the game I was talking about. Its total balls.

Pokemon definitely doesn't have the large focus on the story as standard JRPGs tend to have, but it is still very linear and there really is no choice in how the story plays out. I would still call it a JRPG personally. I would gladly see Pokemon or Dragon Quest replace Final Fantasy as the "face" of JRPGs now outside of Japan, both of them capture the best of the genre right now and it can be sad to see people always say JRPGs are declining in quality with every mistake FF makes.

Its a shame that FF will always been seen as the "face" of Japanese RPGs due to the success of the franchise primarily starting with 7. To most western gamers, outside of FF there are no JRPGs.

Hell, I think Persona 4 is one of the best things to happen to this strange little sub-genre of RPGs that we define by its country of origin.
And then FFXIII comes out and JRPGs are dead to most people.

But FF might always have that spot. :/

I feel like Persona 4 was THE game to revitalize the dying genre. Sadly, its a Japanese RPG that doesn't have the words "Final" or "Fantasy" in succession as the title. Thus, nobody outside of the niche audience JRPGs have paid attention to it.

I'm guilty of not playing it on launch, I'll admit. But that's less about me not knowing and more about me being bored with JRPGs as a whole at that point.

 

[Minato]

Out of all the latest JRPGs, I think Xenoblade did the best job representing JRPGs while trying to incorporate "Western" (new) ideas.
But Persona 4's probably my favorite recent game that stuck to what JRPGs did best.

RPGs are my favorite genre but there haven't been too many this gen that impressed me like the old classics.
At least we've been getting some decent RPGs at least.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I really, really wanna play Persona.

Smooth Criminal

 

[finalark]

Out of all the latest JRPGs, I think Xenoblade did the best job representing JRPGs while trying to incorporate "Western" (new) ideas.
But Persona 4's probably my favorite recent game that stuck to what JRPGs did best.

I haven't played Xenoblade but I've heard its supposed to be very modern and accepting of new ideas.

RPGs are my favorite genre but there haven't been too many this gen that impressed me like the old classics.
At least we've been getting some decent RPGs at least.

I think we're had good WRPGs this gen. JRPGs have been kinda lacking though.

 

[Lythium]

I really, really wanna play Persona.

Smooth Criminal

You can get Persona 3 on PSN now. :3c

 

[Sol9000]

I just wanna throw out there that Pokemon has always outsold Final Fantasy.

For instance, the best selling FF game, FF7, sold 9.8 million copies. The best selling Pokemon game, Red/Blue, sold 20.08 million.

Sauces:

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Pokemon

OH...

My Bad xD

 

[LivewiresXe]

Pikachu, to hell with you?

 

[Claire Diviner]

I think we're had good WRPGs this gen. JRPGs have been kinda lacking though.

I do agree. Forgive me for being too mainstream, but Skyrim's a pretty awesome WRPG. I can't think of too many JPRGs that really stood out, as sad as that is.

 

[finalark]

I can't think of too many JPRGs that really stood out, as sad as that is.

I think the reason why is that Japanese devs went from being the authority on console game design to being yesterday's news in a matter of one gen. So now JRPGs feel kinda backwards in their design compared to WRPGs while Japanese devs stubbornly refuse to adopt western game design. I've heard Xenoblade remedies this but lets be honest Xenoblade got zero publicity and I know it only from word of mouth.

Because god know that us baka gaijins couldn't make a good game to save our lives apparently.

 

[Minato]

The funny thing is, I feel like Xenoblade is similar to FFXII, but executed better.

The reason why I put Western in quotes on my last post is that the ideas aren't really things that Western game design uniquely does. They're just ideas that Japan's been neglecting in some games. Things like real time gameplay and non-linearity is hardly what I'd call Western (not saying that real time is better).

I just think JRPGs aren't playing to their strengths as well as they can, but I don't think JRPGs have gotten any worse this gen either.
There are plenty of decent to great JRPGs this gen. The problem is that a lot of people don't see it as WRPGs and JRPGs, but more like WRPGs and Square Enix. Plus there's the fact that a lot of Japanese developers tend to make JRPGs on handhelds over consoles which gets ignored.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I have to admit Minato, when I think "Western RPG", I think Wild ARMs, which is because well, it's an RPG with a Wild West theme and setting kinda. And what are some of the similarities between Xenoblade and Final Fantasy XII?