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Social General Ice Climber Chat

choknater

choknater

Smash Obsessed
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choknater
wow, i actually have new vids too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU-bgjGfwSs&feature=sub

set starts here

looks like my friend uploaded some vids from a tournament that i won a few months ago

HMW (doc main) went falcon against me

lol these are probably the best vids of me ever uploaded. i was pretty on point that day, but i am still better now than i was then. my ic's at that time would still lose to s2j/ss and perhaps scar. i'm working on the ability to beat falcons like them.

watching myself is so fun LOL. im.... aggressive O_O
 
Kyu Puff

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
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I don't really think it's directly punishable unless you're doing it from point blank. Mostly you'll get "punished" by running out of space or putting yourself in a corner.
 
Grim Tuesday

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
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Nov 4, 2007
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Two things:
1. Trapping fast-fallers in solo squall and hitting them with any attack by Nana while they are trapped seems REALLY legit from when I've used it. I was playing against my friend's Falco and I managed to get him to like... 70% by just jabbing, squalling and blizzarding over and over again.

2. Dthrow > Up Smash > Jab > Grab = Possible infinite? Only tested on Fox, and the timing is difficult. You have to jab them just as the up smash finishes.
 
choknater

choknater

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choknater
so i actually played ganon against my friend's ic's this morning

it's actually pretty scary on ganon's side LOL it's a lot harder to avoid getting grabbed than i thought

ic's wd is SOOO fast from his perspective. i can see my own openings and i can't break through blizzard. interesting
 
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PEEF!

Smash Hero
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GrimFandango said:
2. Dthrow > Up Smash > Jab > Grab = Possible infinite? Only tested on Fox, and the timing is difficult. You have to jab them just as the up smash finishes.
Click to expand...
Tried this out as soon as I heard it and could not replicate, I'm generally good at this kind of stuff...

However, I did find a way to finally take care of people meteor cancelling dthrow>fair off the side. As soon as popos throw animation is finished, just have him do a fsmash or dsmash, or start charging one depending on the character. For marth you probably just want to dsmash or fsmash right away, but for fox, you can just charge and wait for the upb.
 
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PEEF!

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it doesnt even come close to working for me.

I dthrow, usmash as late as possible to try to give my dthrow time to finish, then try to frame perfect jab and it doesnt even come close to working. The timing just feels 10 frames or so too late. I can pretty much guarantee this won't work, but I would love to be proven wrong!
 
Grim Tuesday

Grim Tuesday

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PEEF! said:
it doesnt even come close to working for me.

I dthrow, usmash as late as possible to try to give my dthrow time to finish, then try to frame perfect jab and it doesnt even come close to working. The timing just feels 10 frames or so too late. I can pretty much guarantee this won't work, but I would love to be proven wrong!
Click to expand...
I dunno, I swear I did it...

But frame data doesn't lie...
 
Fly_Amanita

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
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About the weird CG idea:

Usmash induces about 7 frames of hitlag, IIRC. Jab comes out in 4 frames, so if you could act with Popo within 3 frames of starting the usmash, it could be possible. You'd probably need to delay the usmash a little in order for Popo to be able to act that quickly, but if you have Nana move forward a bit, you could probably afford to wait a bit and still account for all possible DI options. This wouldn't be an infinite if it works since the jab and usmash can both be SDI'd, though. It could still potentially catch people off-guard, however.

I once wanted to see if I could do something similar to that, like dthrow -> immediate fsmash -> grab before I knew any frame data, but that ended up being totally impractical. I didn't think of substituting jabs for grabs, which could potentially make variations of that work in some instances.
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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I'm starting to prefer dthrow -> immediate charged fsmash -> Popo dash grab. Why? Because, unlike with the dthrow dair cg, if they DI correctly, they still take damage. I can get the regrab on DI away with charged fsmash regrab, but even with survival DI, they will get fsmashed guaranteed. This is particularly nice at those mid-high percents when blizzard is already tacking on a good amount of damage, and the fsmash (with regrab possibilities) is just really nice compared with dthrow dair, which not only does less damage, but gets DI'd out of a lot nowadays.
 
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Smasher89

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Played quite consistent in the technical play in a small tournament at Dreamhack this weekend, so could speed up my game alot and while playing fast (as in much 2vs1play in singles) I ended up finding a use of solo squall, with help from Nana, it got me a few grabs, in ways that feels like the way marth gets his free grabs!(with dtiltreadings)
 
Fly_Amanita

Fly_Amanita

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Here's another idea on spacies:

dthrow and immediately have Nana run forward and charge dsmash. If they don't DI away, you should be able to do dsmash -> grab. If they do, the dsmash should still hit them.
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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It'd be funny if they did DI away, but you had Nana run far enough past them that the d-smash hit them backward, right into Popo's mittens. Lol.
 
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Smasher89

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Dthrow>dsmash chain is probably very underrated, since mixing up the timing of the smash can send them in all 3 angles, backwards, up(for regrab) or forward, everyone can put alot of pressure on the opponents decision :) (how is the chain really escapable, DI away and tech or what?)
 
Fly_Amanita

Fly_Amanita

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The normal version of dthrow -> dsmash -> grab (basically the same as dthrow -> fsmash -> grab) is escapable via DI away, although I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about.


As a slight modification to my last idea, one could have Popo headbutt and tell Nana to run forward, and then hit down + C-down + Z to make Popo dthrow and Nana start charging a dsmash. That way would let you charge the dsmash a little longer.
 
choknater

choknater

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choknater
so weird fly LOL

i'd like to see you apply this stuff in vids cuz im stumped as to how this is performed

(i never mastered ur fsmash hit stun regrab cg so i would be even less proficient at this... lawl)
 
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PEEF!

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Fsmash regrab requires 15 minutes of hard work, and leads to a lifetime of success.

PLUR/anyone, I always thought it should be super easy for the ICs to powershield something with the ICs because they have 2 shields. Why isn't this the case, or am I just doing it wrong.
 
Fly_Amanita

Fly_Amanita

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The way powershielding works is basically that you need to shield when an attack is inside of the area that your shield covers, but not yet hitting you. The space between the ICs' normal shield and their hurtboxes isn't that large, so powershielding can be difficult with them.

That there are two ICs doesn't make it much easier to powershield with one of them since the 6 frame gap between their actions is quite large. You'd need to shield significantly early to powershield something with Nana, and if you try to powershield with Popo and mess up, chances are Nana won't shield in time.


On the topic of fsmash -> grab, I have a hard time pulling it off against people who either DI straight up or DI straight up and a little bit away; I'm not actually sure which of these directions is the one that is problematic, but it's possible for Fox to drift too far away for the standing fsmash to connect, but still not get ***** if you release the fsmash early. That's part of why I'm looking into other variations of it at the moment.

If the run forward (or walk forward, which might actually be better) -> simultaneous dsmash charge + dthrow idea I just mentioned works the way I think it should, then it would partially deal with some of the fsmash -> grab issues. I believe that Fox would always get hit by the dsmash regardless of DI, for example. If he DIs in, you can do dsmash grab. If he DIs away and you read it, then you can release the dsmash early to catch his bad DI, but even if you don't read it, he'll still get dsmashed.

The biggest issue I see with this is the distance that it puts between Popo and Nana. It might be the case that in order to cover all DI options, Nana would need to move so far from Popo that after the re-grab, she'd be in that annoying state where she's on the other side of the opponent and you can't do much out of the grab because of it. If this is the case, it might be possible to do something like dsmash -> jab cancel -> dash grab or dsmash -> utilt -> grab, which would be escapable, but would put you in a better position with respect to Nana afterwards.
 
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PEEF!

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Fly I can't get it to work. Walking doesn't get her far enough, and I cannot for the life of me get her to dash>dsmash. she always dashes to dash attack.
 
Fly_Amanita

Fly_Amanita

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PEEF! said:
Fly I can't get it to work. Walking doesn't get her far enough, and I cannot for the life of me get her to dash>dsmash. she always dashes to dash attack.
Click to expand...
Okay.

So you can't get Nana to dash cancel? I'm not sure why that would happen, but it's unfortunate if that doesn't work.

Back to the drawing board.
 
Kyu Puff

Kyu Puff

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I've gotten Nana to dash cancel, but I'm having a really hard time timing the d-smash (walking or running).

D-throw -> u-tilt seems like a really solid combo in 1.0 at low to mid percentages. It takes a little bit of reaction to DI, and you have to wd forward into the u-tilt, but I think it's a perfectly realistic cg.

Edit: Figured out how to time the d-smash... d-throw first, then dash forward, crouch, and d-smash with the c-stick. I haven't tested any kind of DI yet, and I only managed to get the regrab by turning around (at lowish percents). Unfortunately it seems like you can't get far enough walking--maybe I'm doing it wrong--and when I try to dash before the d-throw she stops responding after a certain point.
 
bahamutz69

bahamutz69

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i was just messing around while reading flys post
you can headbutt with popo and wd with nana>charge dsmash
and hitting down for the dsmash will make popo dthrow

a wd> dsmash might cover more ground than dash>dsmash but im not sure
 
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smakis

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I like the brainstorming

nothing new but if you backthrow > nana wd > nana grab on spacies towards the edge you are able to start the handoff even if nana throws as soon as she grabs.
 
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