Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Republican0fHeaven]

So wait how is fair-ing more dangerous?

 

[Binx]

more dangerous compared to what?

Ftilt has more room for error because if it does 100% in 10 repetitions and dtilt does 70% in 10 repititions and you mess up ftilt did more damage. I also remember reading it has a little more stun so you have 1-2 more frames of leeway while performing it, but I don't know for sure that this is true.

 

[Tomber]

You can also mix it up by shifting between d-tilt and f-tilt during the wobble. This way you reduce the Stale-move negation and it's a more flashy way to do the infinity, haha. Doing this might also give you a better idea of the rhythm and feeling of the wobble.

I always start with f-tilt because I find it easier to do the set up with this move, but if I stand close to an edge, I'll start using d-tilt after a few hits. On stages like Dream Land you have to be able to shift between the tilts because the whispy-wind can blow you to the very end of the stage where there is no room for a f-tilt --> Nana suicides off the stage.

 

[Roller]

Wait. In Brawl, only popo's attacks stale the ICs moveset. (for both climbers)

In this, do popo and nana each stale their own moves?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Yes, Nana's moves stale separately. A fun way of checking this for yourself is to try the old dthrow -> dsmash CG on Sheik, which works as long as Nana's dsmash isn't completely fresh. If you try it once when nothing is stale, it fails, but if you try it immediately again afterwards, it will work, even though Popo hasn't used dsmash at all.

 

[Tomber]

I figured out a way to make Nana grab the edge without having any climber to use a move.
If you roll to the edge, desync jump and DI off the stage with Nana without doing a move (like u-air) in the air, Nana will somehow turn around in the air so she can't grab the edge. However, if you duck with Popo after the desync so he doesn't turn around when you DI off the stage, Nana won't turn around either. So,

Roll to the edge --> hold down X/Y and "down" on the analog stick --> DI off the stage with Nana when she jumps without having Popo to leave the ducking animation --> Nana grabs the edge and Popo doesn't have to do anything beside doing a short duck.

I find this very useful yet hard to explain. Hope you got an idea of how it works.

I found out some other cool stuff, but I'm not going the explain it all just now. There is a last one, however, I would like to describe. This one has become the new favourite of mine.

Roll to the edge --> hold down "up" on the analog stick and keep holding down L/R --> when Nana jumps, you hit "down" on the C-stick and DI off the stage --> Popo does a short dodge on the ground and Nana jumps off the stage with dair. When the dair animation ends, Nana will use her second jump and sweetspot the edge. In the meantime you can do whatever you want with Popo like charging up a smash or doing a down-b.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Yeah, that sounds pretty cool. I'll try it out.

 

[Roller]

I really like the second trick. Will try.

 

[PEEF!]

Haha Tomber, I see youre experimenting with the same things I did. The first one I didn't know about, but the second I have, and unfortunately it has little application because it takes nana SO LONG to get to the edge. I feel something that puts here there quicker is always better. but yeah there are lots of wierd ways to get nana onto the edge. I like the first one and will try if I can ever put away Project: M

 

[john!]

peef, it's irritating when people announce their discoveries in this thread, and you claim to have done it before them.

post about it when YOU discover it, or people won't believe you.

 

[PEEF!]

peef, it's irritating when people announce their discoveries in this thread, and you claim to have done it before them.

post about it when YOU discover it, or people won't believe you.

I have posted about it before.

I have even posted about streaming it (along with other ledge tricks), posted the stream link, and then streamed it for any Ice Climber in the thread to see.

The usmash/utilt > nana jump and hog ledge thing is something I have posted about for a year, done in tournament for a year, and streamed 5 days a week for an entire year.

I shouldn't even afford posts like yours the luxury of going out of my way to prove myself, because you were posting out of blind ignorance of my posts, tourney vids, and stream, but here is an example from March.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_djZbj7w4G4#t=7m56s

 

[john!]

thanks. all i wanted was a link or something proving that you actually discovered it and weren't just taking credit. i think it's reasonable to ask for that.

 

[PEEF!]

thanks. all i wanted was a link or something proving that you actually discovered it and weren't just taking credit. i think it's reasonable to ask for that.

Okay then. I don't think that someone would try to take credit for that unless they were telling the truth. Not gamebreaking or anything. It's just that he is going through the same kind of search for edge techs that I did so he is rediscovering alot of things, and apparently found some stuff I didn't.

 

[Tomber]

The first one I didn't know about, but the second I have, and unfortunately it has little application because it takes nana SO LONG to get to the edge. I feel something that puts here there quicker is always better.

Well, it could be used against people who like to recover from below the stage. Characters like Falcon, Fox, Falco etc. would have a really hard time recovering with a dair to the face and a Popo guarding the edge. The dair also covers the edge in a way so Fox/Falco can't sweetspot. If they can't recover low or go the sweetspot then they can only go for the stage where Popo stands ready. It could work against characters like Marth and Sheik too, however, it might be too risky as it's really easy for those characters to gimp Nana off the stage even when recovering.

Personally, I like the fact that it takes so long for Nana to reach the edge. Yes, it should not be used for a quick edgehog, but against chracters who have a slow recovery, you could send Nana off the stage and then go for some gimps off the stage yourself.

Once again, I haven't used this against human player yet, but I think could be used effectively.

 

[voorhese]

i was watching fly again, and idk if this was him just seizing an opportunity, or he plans to do it often or not, but he wavedashed backwards towards someone and did a sh auto canceled backair onto their shield with popo and nana both, he want through their shield and then grabbed them out of their shield. is that safe because of shieldstun? or is it just possible to grab them because they are afraid and keep their shield up after?

 

[ChivalRuse]

There isn't enough shield stun for it to be guaranteed. But if you condition them to shield out of fear of d-smash, then it can work like a tomahawk.

Btw, people like to jump oos against ICs because ICs are scary. If you hit somebody's shield, usually SH uair followup will catch their oos.

 

[voorhese]

i wonder if there is a slick way to cover both options, can anyone think of a desynch to make nana move fast enough to either grab or upair, maybe we can even get nana to bliz after, so we can follow up to that...idk ic's are so interesting!

 

[VirtualVoid]

I'm not sure if PEEF or anyone else for that matter cares, but if I remember correctly I saw a Japanese ICs player (I think Domo, could be someone else...) use that roll towards edge > Nana jumps to edge/Popo does nothing quite a while ago. So if anyone indeed cares I could try finding it but it might take a while....

As for desyncing after hitting bair on shield - If you time the bair correctly you can get only Popo to auto-cancel while Nana lands with the normal bair landing animation (You can L-cancel I assume) and desync from there.

 

[voorhese]

what im missing here is that nana is supposed to do the same thing popo does, except a few frames after? so how can i make him auto cancel and not her?

 

[VirtualVoid]

I'm not exactly sure how that works, but I know that it happened to me quite a few times while trying to do auto cancel uairs with the c-stick, so I'm pretty sure it can be done with bairs too (I am not sure if you can get this effect even with uairs if you hit a shield tho, I never tried...)

 

[Binx]

Nana hits the shield as she rises right as you peak your jump and it causes her to fall at a different time I believe, I can't really do the desynch on purpose but I can usually tell if I am going to desych or am desyched after an aerial so it ends up being pretty effective regardless.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I did a **** Sopo combo against Mango in pools last weekend.

Dthrow > Tech-Chase > Fair > Fair > Fair Spike > Waveland Fsmash > Bair Edge-guard

There were lots of wavelands in-between and it looked mad cute. :3

 

[Kyu Puff]

I never get b-air to desynch when I fast-fall auto-cancel it. What you can do is sh ff f-air/late b-air -> l-cancel desynch, but the best thing to do after that is probably desynched d-smashes.

 

[Binx]

I usually go for a grab covering by a nana jab or dash attack, or I dash attack and have nana fair at them, not safe from everything but if they were shielding vs me in the first place it usually means they were on the defensive.

 

[Roller]

Peef, I may be able to house your car for The Big House. PM me. I live across the street from the venue.

 

[GofG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUo2xSh8TnY


^ tourney match vs a respected NC peach main. i couldn't figure out what to do at all. any critiques?

 

[choknater]

i played a lotttt of vs marth today

difficult stuff

just gotta stay very very conservative. it's funny because both characters try to keep the other out whilst trying to get in.

 

[Binx]

Yeah its a really weird match up Chok, both character space very similarly but get in on eachother in different ways, I feel like if Marth hits you with a decent fsmash at any point though it gives him a lot of options at most percents, it's sometimes really difficult to see coming. Dtilt is tricky as well, it's punishable but only if you really commit, if it then is not a dtilt you take a lot of damage.

GofG you need to stop trying to shield grab float canceled aerials, you also miss a billion and a half uairs, when peach is on a platform I am pretty sure it's 100% safe to poke with uairs. Sometimes I fake one and do a really fast waveland grab, it might not be worth the risk but not a ton of peaches have the reflexes to get out of it on reaction.

There are some times where you are both neutral and you do some risky dash attacks or wavedash jabs, peach has a really good crouch so jabs are way less effective, her dsmash out of ccs splits the climbers up as well and make its hard. I feel like desnyched ice blocks while catching projectiles and throwing some blizzards around can give you a little bit of time to breath while you think of how to approach.

You can occasionally mix in a synched forward b on stage and knick peach out of a float and combo her when she lands, also running upsmash can sometimes work, or run at her shield just out of attack range and belay blizzard, this can hit peach with a tick of blizzard and give you a chance to pressure with fair or just pressure her by moving closer and punish her escape or counter attack option.

 

[choknater]

yea when marth establishes control it is really annoying. haha.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Two questions if you guys don't mind helping me out that'd be great:

1. When does dthrow to nana dair to regrab not work? Is there a particular percent that I should use a different grab combo?

2. Say I do a dash grab and nana dashes through my opponent when he's at low/mid percent... what is the best direction to throw him? Is it ever advantageous to just jab until they escape and try to follow up?

Thanks =D

 

[Fly_Amanita]

The answers to both vary by character, but generally speaking:

1. Dthrow -> dair doesn't work whenever the opponent is able to successfully DI out of it. Percentages generally won't directly make much of a difference, but they do indirectly affect the utility of the CG since they affect some of your other options. Anyways, if you think that the opponent will DI out of it, then choose something else based on how you think they will DI. Fastfallers will usually escape with DI away, so something like dsmash/fsmash, will often catch them with bad DI; at low percentages, dthrow -> usmash and probably some dthrow -> ice block shenanigans are also okay. Floaties generally get out above, so things like dthrow -> usmash/utilt -> uairs/etc. tend to work well.

2. If you're playing against somebody whom you can directly combo out of dthrow with just Sopo, it's generally a good idea to try that. If you're playing against a space animal, you can try to tech-chase with dthrow or bthrow; sometimes space animals won't DI the dthrow away and you can follow it up with dsmash, but that isn't very reliable and good players generally won't fall for it, although I wouldn't be surprised if Nana's nearby presence might affect their DI decisions. Uthrow is also good on spacies at low percentages, especially when there aren't any platforms around. Against Falcon, you can tech-chase with dthrow or just straight up dthrow CG him with Popo if you can either react to his DI very quickly or guess how he will DI. You can also tech-chase him off bthrow or go for a goofy DI-dependent combo like bthrow -> ftilt/fsmash. I think that covers the main character categories relevant here.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Wow the IC's boards always give me such great in-depth answers to my questions =D

Thanks!

I definitely gotta learn to use b-throw... But everytime I get a grab with IC's I still experience a delay in my head cause their are so many CG possibilites and throw combos

 

[Binx]

Ice Climbers is a really fun character, if you play them long enough and often enough you just start seeing opportunities to do really odd things that most people wouldn't do that work really well. You get to know all the intricacies of desynching on accident and taking advantage of it.

At certain distanced towards a ledge I really like backthrow because in general it will force very limited tech options, tech in place or tech away can often times lead to regrabs, as well as if they tech towards you, but also if they tech towards you you can sometimes get some neat chain grabs, like backthrow they tech towards you, you turn around regrab, do a reverse dthrow dair into a handoff. Super fun, wish my handoff wasn't so aweful ;P.

 

[choknater]

binx do you have any tourny vids? j/w

 

[Binx]

Yeah I'm rusty in all of them though because my scene has been so inconsistent for such a long, time, there will be more up of me in the weeks to come though and I've been playing more so they will be much better.

I'll link em here after the next tourney I go to.

Hmm some of them should have been on twitchtv but I couldnt find them T_T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwA-1t02jlo --- Here is one where I make 100000000 mistakes because I hadn't played in almost a year. I've been playing more though and a lot smarter so my spacing is a lot more clean and my followups are better, I think im in the top 3/4 in Oregon now, which I guess isn't super impressive but still neat for me, I expect to be taking some first place spots pretty soon. Some of the airdodges were because my shield button was sticking lol.

 

[choknater]

come to norcal!! :D :D

 

[Vts]

thought you quit chok?

then again hard to quit this game

 

[the_irish_dude]

Nah. He just plays with little kids instead of eskimos now

 

[choknater]

LOL

yea definitely using young link now

and i didn't "quit" per se

i just don't have time to take the game as seriously as i used to

funny thing is i'm still getting better

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

How do you do the desynch to blizzard that happens here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-od7iUMKLo&feature=player_embedded&t=6m15s