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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
I'm picking up Ice Climbers.
john!
Smash Hero
in soviet russia, ice climber pick up YOU
Binx
Smash Master
Welcome!
Don't hesitate to ask any questions, ICs are sooooo good.
Don't hesitate to ask any questions, ICs are sooooo good.
Vts
Smash Champion
Strong bad if your serious then i'll help you, but if this is a joke then i'm just going to say wavedash dsmash lol
spend like 2-3 hours with me next time and i'll teach you all that i know
edit- peef no matter who you beat i'm still going to think of you as a noob, due to the way you act and how you look at situations in melee. it's a noob mind set sorry, even if you lose to everyone and have a different mindset to see your flaws and everything then i'd call you good. I'm a noob i still do things that i know aren't safe but want to, i have few things that good players do but nothing worth noting.
spend like 2-3 hours with me next time and i'll teach you all that i know
edit- peef no matter who you beat i'm still going to think of you as a noob, due to the way you act and how you look at situations in melee. it's a noob mind set sorry, even if you lose to everyone and have a different mindset to see your flaws and everything then i'd call you good. I'm a noob i still do things that i know aren't safe but want to, i have few things that good players do but nothing worth noting.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
yes VTS I am serious.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
WWelcome strong bad.
Vts
Smash Champion
alright i'll try to come visit soon but do you have frame data on ICs ?
i got it somewhere but it helps with knowing some stuff first off.
also i can show you all the reverse hit boxes of moves and stuff
i still don't have hand off down idk why maybe i'm just stupid lol
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
handoff is gay to time because animation length changes with weight & relevant characters have pretty different weight.
yes I have frame data on ICs
yes I have frame data on ICs
Vts
Smash Champion
well look through these boards cus i've posted most of the stuff before about reverse hit boxes and other stuff
i'm to lazy to find my posts right now
edit- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=292997 going to updated it soon to make it complete
edit2- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270885 some stuff in here also can be handy
john!
Smash Hero
so are you picking up ic's for real, or just as a counterpick to sheik?
you were telling the sheik boards about how you have a secret new character to deal with them
you were telling the sheik boards about how you have a secret new character to deal with them
Vts
Smash Champion
Hmm , might make an IC how to video soon.
Depends need to get my pivots better
Depends need to get my pivots better
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
handoff is really actually fairly easy.
its only you vs yourself.
just practice practice practice.
Vts
Smash Champion
then thats how we view each other
, well glad we have no hard feelings between each other :DYou found my metronome thread right? If not search that word and you'll find it
choknater
Smash Obsessed
hey guys some new vids of me
these are rusty-nater vids IMO because i went to this tourny without much practice and was also focusing more on ylink for fun
losing to bizzarro kinda made me fired up again so hopefully next time i play him it'll be a better match for me!
me (ylink) vs ic's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHsYs4AGSg&feature=feedu
me (ic's) vs link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woax7x1Lh4M&feature=feedu
me (ic's) vs marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jIc0Pupdmo&feature=feedu
i apologize for some of my clearly bad decisions in these matches hahaha. but i knew i was gonna beat them so i didn't pull out mr try hard
however in the following set vs bizz's ganon, i tried hard so i think i need some help. however i only went ic's in one of the matches. next time i play him, i'm going falco the whole set
me (ic's ylink falco) vs bizzarro flame's ganon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATPKPl5ReMQ&feature=feedu
he is soooo slipperyyyyy
these are rusty-nater vids IMO because i went to this tourny without much practice and was also focusing more on ylink for fun
losing to bizzarro kinda made me fired up again so hopefully next time i play him it'll be a better match for me!
me (ylink) vs ic's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHsYs4AGSg&feature=feedu
me (ic's) vs link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woax7x1Lh4M&feature=feedu
me (ic's) vs marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jIc0Pupdmo&feature=feedu
i apologize for some of my clearly bad decisions in these matches hahaha. but i knew i was gonna beat them so i didn't pull out mr try hard
however in the following set vs bizz's ganon, i tried hard so i think i need some help. however i only went ic's in one of the matches. next time i play him, i'm going falco the whole set
me (ic's ylink falco) vs bizzarro flame's ganon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATPKPl5ReMQ&feature=feedu
he is soooo slipperyyyyy
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I'll watch over all the ICs stuff more closely later, but some initial remarks:
I don't have much to say on the 69% set since you just played better than he did and since he doesn't know the match-up well. Good stuff.
Regarding Marth, your blizzard wall could be much better. You pretty much always just have Nana do a standing blizzard; there are lots of little variants of this that work considerably better depending on the curcumstances. For example, one little trick is to have Popo run forward and shield after Nana blizzards; the weird force that Popo exerts on Nana causes her to drift forward and make the blizzard reach farther than it otherwise would; this is also nice since the opponent might think you made yourself more vulnerable by running through the blizzard and thus try to move in to capitalize, only to get hit by Nana's magical sliding blizzard. Something that's really, really good I didn't see you (in the first couple rounds, which are all I've watched of that set so far) is a short hop Nanapult forward; there were a lot of times when Marth was a bit outside of your reach when you kept just doing ice block -> standing blizzard -> ice block -> standing blizzard over and over again when you could have just hit him with short hop forward Nanapult blizzard. Your punishments off blizzard when you do connect could also be better; you often try to grab, even when Marth is too high for that too work. I personally like to dash attack after blizzard since it combos well and is fairly reliable; utilt is also probably good, but hard to space well since you can't do it out of a dash; usmash is probably really good here, too, if a little slow. If Marth is on the ground and CC'ing the blizzard, you could try to fair over it if you think he's going to CC dtilt through the blizzard. There were also times when you had a grab on Marth at a high percentage and just did something like dthrow -> fsmash, where dthrow -> charged usmash would have KO'd easily.
Regarding the Ganon match-up, there are lots of little things you do fine, but a few little mistakes or things you could improve upon that cost you a lot. Starting the round with drop down > blizzard didn't make a lot of sense; blizzard stops horizontal approaches, yet he was above you, and he punished you pretty badly for it. Although a little odd and seemingly contrary to the general rules of stage control in this match-up, I think a good idea against Ganon in this starting position is to wavedash backwards towards the edge and then waveland towards the center on the bottom platform; this will ultimately put you in an okay position and let you get there without having to worry about Ganon's starting shenanigans too much; if you start doing this and it looks like he's going to try to force you by the edge, you can instead blizzard before landing instead of wavelanding towards the center. This is mostly theorycraft, so I wouldn't be shocked if some of this doesn't work as well as I think it would; I don't experience this situation much since I never use the third port.
Your edgeguarding could be a little better. You shouldn't be afraid of jumping out and throwing out a nair or bair to hit Ganon if you think he's going to wizard foot after double jumping. At really high percentages, you could just grab the edge, force him to recover on stage, and then KO him with a bair or dsmash or something like that. The awkward thing that could happen here is that he might hit Nana with up-B, but if that happens, you should still be able to bair him afterwards on reaction.
Another little thing that cost you a lot in a couple instances was not making good use of your shield. You don't need to constantly have it super-huge the way Chu does, but making sure it covers your whole body well and angling it appropriately can prevent shield pokes, which can make a big difference against Ganon. You also shouldn't voluntarily go on platforms against Ganon unless you're very confident that you won't get punished badly for it, which doesn't really fit into this part, but is on my mind since you did this once right before one of the aforementioned shield pokes.
Be very cautious about when and how you blizzard camp Ganon. You only tried it once, but the way you did it caused you to get punished. The big deal in this particular instance is that after the blizzard missed and evidently wouldn't hit, you followed it up with short hop ice block. Ganon was approaching from above, so this wouldn't accomplish anything. Something you could have done to stop the bair he hit you with would have been run forward short hop uair, although that is kind of risky and would lose to some other things he could do. Another option you have is to, once you realize that the blizzard won't accomplish much, wavedash backwards. At the very least, this will make Popo safe, and it will likely pull Nana back a bit, which could save her, too. This is what I would probably do in that situation. It also probably wouldn't have hurt to space yourself a little back in the first place.
An obvious remark is that your grab game could have been a lot better. You can dthrow CG Ganon on reaction pretty easily at low percentages, but you occasionally messed that up. I know Bizzarro Flame is very good at getting out of reverse dthrow > dair in really bizarre ways, most of which involve some sort of hard SDI down and backwards so that he immediately lands on the ground so that he can grab/jab/fsmash/*insert other weird option here*/etc.; if you anticipate that DI, dthrow -> usmash is probably really good, and at higher percentages, stuff like dthrow -> run forward bair is also probably really good.
I don't have much to say on the 69% set since you just played better than he did and since he doesn't know the match-up well. Good stuff.
Regarding Marth, your blizzard wall could be much better. You pretty much always just have Nana do a standing blizzard; there are lots of little variants of this that work considerably better depending on the curcumstances. For example, one little trick is to have Popo run forward and shield after Nana blizzards; the weird force that Popo exerts on Nana causes her to drift forward and make the blizzard reach farther than it otherwise would; this is also nice since the opponent might think you made yourself more vulnerable by running through the blizzard and thus try to move in to capitalize, only to get hit by Nana's magical sliding blizzard. Something that's really, really good I didn't see you (in the first couple rounds, which are all I've watched of that set so far) is a short hop Nanapult forward; there were a lot of times when Marth was a bit outside of your reach when you kept just doing ice block -> standing blizzard -> ice block -> standing blizzard over and over again when you could have just hit him with short hop forward Nanapult blizzard. Your punishments off blizzard when you do connect could also be better; you often try to grab, even when Marth is too high for that too work. I personally like to dash attack after blizzard since it combos well and is fairly reliable; utilt is also probably good, but hard to space well since you can't do it out of a dash; usmash is probably really good here, too, if a little slow. If Marth is on the ground and CC'ing the blizzard, you could try to fair over it if you think he's going to CC dtilt through the blizzard. There were also times when you had a grab on Marth at a high percentage and just did something like dthrow -> fsmash, where dthrow -> charged usmash would have KO'd easily.
Regarding the Ganon match-up, there are lots of little things you do fine, but a few little mistakes or things you could improve upon that cost you a lot. Starting the round with drop down > blizzard didn't make a lot of sense; blizzard stops horizontal approaches, yet he was above you, and he punished you pretty badly for it. Although a little odd and seemingly contrary to the general rules of stage control in this match-up, I think a good idea against Ganon in this starting position is to wavedash backwards towards the edge and then waveland towards the center on the bottom platform; this will ultimately put you in an okay position and let you get there without having to worry about Ganon's starting shenanigans too much; if you start doing this and it looks like he's going to try to force you by the edge, you can instead blizzard before landing instead of wavelanding towards the center. This is mostly theorycraft, so I wouldn't be shocked if some of this doesn't work as well as I think it would; I don't experience this situation much since I never use the third port.
Your edgeguarding could be a little better. You shouldn't be afraid of jumping out and throwing out a nair or bair to hit Ganon if you think he's going to wizard foot after double jumping. At really high percentages, you could just grab the edge, force him to recover on stage, and then KO him with a bair or dsmash or something like that. The awkward thing that could happen here is that he might hit Nana with up-B, but if that happens, you should still be able to bair him afterwards on reaction.
Another little thing that cost you a lot in a couple instances was not making good use of your shield. You don't need to constantly have it super-huge the way Chu does, but making sure it covers your whole body well and angling it appropriately can prevent shield pokes, which can make a big difference against Ganon. You also shouldn't voluntarily go on platforms against Ganon unless you're very confident that you won't get punished badly for it, which doesn't really fit into this part, but is on my mind since you did this once right before one of the aforementioned shield pokes.
Be very cautious about when and how you blizzard camp Ganon. You only tried it once, but the way you did it caused you to get punished. The big deal in this particular instance is that after the blizzard missed and evidently wouldn't hit, you followed it up with short hop ice block. Ganon was approaching from above, so this wouldn't accomplish anything. Something you could have done to stop the bair he hit you with would have been run forward short hop uair, although that is kind of risky and would lose to some other things he could do. Another option you have is to, once you realize that the blizzard won't accomplish much, wavedash backwards. At the very least, this will make Popo safe, and it will likely pull Nana back a bit, which could save her, too. This is what I would probably do in that situation. It also probably wouldn't have hurt to space yourself a little back in the first place.
An obvious remark is that your grab game could have been a lot better. You can dthrow CG Ganon on reaction pretty easily at low percentages, but you occasionally messed that up. I know Bizzarro Flame is very good at getting out of reverse dthrow > dair in really bizarre ways, most of which involve some sort of hard SDI down and backwards so that he immediately lands on the ground so that he can grab/jab/fsmash/*insert other weird option here*/etc.; if you anticipate that DI, dthrow -> usmash is probably really good, and at higher percentages, stuff like dthrow -> run forward bair is also probably really good.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
thanks
very very helpful stuff fly. mm i have trouble internalizing these things but hopefully when i practice again vs people i'll be able to put them into practice
mmm. that inching forward vs marth!
and not letting ganon get through
i guess i have been too closed minded about the whole wall/camping thing! the extremely simple wall that i normally do works on like, puff. but there's more to it vs other characters!
very very helpful stuff fly. mm i have trouble internalizing these things but hopefully when i practice again vs people i'll be able to put them into practice
mmm. that inching forward vs marth!
and not letting ganon get through
i guess i have been too closed minded about the whole wall/camping thing! the extremely simple wall that i normally do works on like, puff. but there's more to it vs other characters!
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
sheik & falcoso are you picking up ic's for real, or just as a counterpick to sheik?
you were telling the sheik boards about how you have a secret new character to deal with them
shmeargle
Smash Apprentice
What does b-airs do for you when your get knocked off the stage? I noticed that in some vids that people do that.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
it is the fastest aerial so i generally use it to get out of my tumble state. the quickest way to normally get out of a tumble state is to move the control stick around, but when recovering you wanna keep holding toward the stage so i just c-stick bair to get out of it instead
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
does everyone know about spotdodge desync?
Bing
Smash Master
Quick Question, Anyone got some tips on Chain Grabbing, Im trying to pick up some sort of IC, but he grabbing part isnt going as well as I would like it to.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
The Meta Knight cursor is soo cool.
Bing
Smash Master
haha yeah its trippin me out XD
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yeah i like it
Binx
Smash Master
Good matches chok, I only really watched the Marth stuff and don't have anything to add really that fly didn't cover, I think you try to wavedash out of shield a little too often when hes on you, but you really only have a couple choices, I actually prefer to just get to the ledge and come up with invincibility in that situation, but sometimes it better to roll behind or wavedash in if you anticipate certain actions.
I think you and I play in a pretty similar style and make a lot of the same mistakes. Here hoping we can both improve a lot haha.
I think you and I play in a pretty similar style and make a lot of the same mistakes. Here hoping we can both improve a lot haha.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i like the marth notes. that was an autopilot set so i guess it brings out some of my worse habits
but again, the bizz set was the only one where i was really trying. GANONNNNN
but again, the bizz set was the only one where i was really trying. GANONNNNN
shmeargle
Smash Apprentice
chok in your guide i still don't understand how when popo grabs and nana charges and you throw in a direction and then you release the smash then the person flies in the opposite direction.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
if nana is charging an fsmash while popo is holding the opponent, and popo does a uthrow, you can time nana's usmash so that it hits reverse. so the opponent will fly backwards
because popo's uthrow holds the opponent directly on the back hitbox of nana's fsmash. this is one of ic's best 50-50 mixups off a grab.
fly does this a lot
because popo's uthrow holds the opponent directly on the back hitbox of nana's fsmash. this is one of ic's best 50-50 mixups off a grab.
fly does this a lot
voorhese
Smash Master
DIing up is a solid way to make sure that u dont get screwed by that though. A good 50/50 is the one i see trail use. Where he doesnt just CG till high percent, he will just fsmash after like 1-2 cg's so their di is bad then follow up.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yeah that's a good one too.
but anyway
DI up to avoid the fsmash 50/50 is still not optimal. it helps you go high up, sure, but it doesn't help the horizontal knockback from the charged fsmash. it's just being "safe" which i guess is okay
but anyway
DI up to avoid the fsmash 50/50 is still not optimal. it helps you go high up, sure, but it doesn't help the horizontal knockback from the charged fsmash. it's just being "safe" which i guess is okay
Binx
Smash Master
I still get a ton of guaranteed kills off the side with it, or some really, really easy edgeguards so it's pretty nice for that.
Vts
Smash Champion
Your a mad man there's no such thing
:D
just like how bowser/kirby/pichu aren't real characters
silly strongbad.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
are you guys frmo the same region or something
:Tally Hoes
Banned via Administration
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2011
- Messages
- 62
&@strongbad
After a dodge buffer the next attack. Up-B oos is the fastest way to desynce nana in the air to do a down b oos.
The oos ones are the easiest next easiest would be the ones onvolving platforms and landing lag related desynces just less useable.
Then I think poivts would be the hardest.
Also there's no reason to make it hard just d throw dair and keep in simple.
You can cancel most of nana's attackswith down-b and up b when she's de-synced so up smash to next frame up b combo. Could be used after an up smash out of grab on ys for lower percent kill I guess.
After a dodge buffer the next attack. Up-B oos is the fastest way to desynce nana in the air to do a down b oos.
The oos ones are the easiest next easiest would be the ones onvolving platforms and landing lag related desynces just less useable.
Then I think poivts would be the hardest.
Also there's no reason to make it hard just d throw dair and keep in simple.
You can cancel most of nana's attackswith down-b and up b when she's de-synced so up smash to next frame up b combo. Could be used after an up smash out of grab on ys for lower percent kill I guess.
Sinji
Smash Master
What does iceys have to watch out for against fox?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
fox on offense
- shine gimps
- getting shined across the stage
- drill shine
- fox attacking from below
fox on defense
- platform camping
- shine gimps
- getting shined across the stage
- drill shine
- fox attacking from below
fox on defense
- platform camping
GhllieShdeKnife
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 687
what a good question......