General ICs Q&A Thread

[1PokeMastr]

I'm just learning Ice Climbers, so I don't know all the desyncs.
But I use the true pivot -> ice block desync.
And the Standing turn around desync.

I also have a few questions~

What are ways that I should be applying a desync blizzard wall in the Olimar, Mk, Zss, Diddy, Pikachu and Snake ?

Hope this isn't much!

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Olimar you just keep SH blizzarding because there are very very few options he has to get around it. MK...you really only blizzard when you are scared he will tornado. ZSS...don't blizzard because her forward-b is longer than it.

Diddy can throw bananas through blizzard, pikachu can t-jolt through blizzard, Snake can throw grenades at blizzard, so it is unwise of you to use it against any of the 3.

 

[Ruinn]

I'm just learning Ice Climbers, so I don't know all the desyncs.
But I use the true pivot -> ice block desync.
And the Standing turn around desync.

I also have a few questions~

What are ways that I should be applying a desync blizzard wall in the Olimar, Mk, Zss, Diddy, Pikachu and Snake ?

Hope this isn't much!

you sneaky little ***** tryna learn all my chars!

onto the main reason im here.

ics vs zss. teach me this mu. there is a very good zss in my region by the name of free115, and hes probably the only person i fear facing. i do not know this mu at all. somebody needs to teach me. also is there any vids of this mu ?

 

[SSBBDaisy]

why don't u just go practice against Legyt or Salem or Bio? They all play zss.


I never learn any MUs I guess thats why I suck. oh well

 

[Ruinn]

i never see bio on. salem never plays anyone but his friends. i guess i can play legyt tho.

 

[Smoom77]

It's a very tricky game. Only blizzard when you know it'll hit up close. A good Hylian desync to get a few desync IBs out, it's a life saver. If you are very careful but effective with your IBs, ZZS will be forced in to the air which is where you will get a lot of uairs (but be careful because she has a fast air speed).

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Wish I could go to apex so I could meet a bunch of u guys and yall could teach me these weird signature desyncs.

Oh well maybe next year.

 

[Crackle]

I frequently drop chainthrows because nana does a grab in the air rather than keeping herself neutral and available to continue the chainthrow. Does anyone have experience in overcoming this problem? I believe its a buffered grab but I dont see how to get by it as changing the speed of the chainthrow doesnt seem to do anything.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

It really is all practice & understanding how things work. Maybe you just need to pick another CG. Which one are you using?

 

[DeLux]

three options:

1. Stop using bad cgs
2. Hold the grab button when you grab so it shield buffers
3. Combination of both

 

[Crackle]

I use dthrow cg and bthrow/dthhrow cg so far. For both of them I have the "nana grabbing air" problem. Otherwise I would be fine cging any character.

It has literally gotten to a point where I have to stop and watch whether nana will grab for no reason during a cg when popo has the enemy. This way I let people mash out but at least I dont mess up.

I will try the "hold z" thing. Thanks for the "bad cg" thing. -_-

 

[DeLux]

I just don't understand why people take the time to practice a method when there's a viable tripless alternative

I mean, I understand some IC mains that learned how to do it back in the dark ages when we didn't have the technology. There's a huge jump between "most consistent CG" against "theoretical ideal CG", especially when cash is on the line for some people. But the newbies coming into the character that have two choices to start with opt for the inferior one without asking why outside of "X pro does it that way"

You should learn all the methods of CGing imo (like every combonation from Popo to Nana and vice versa) but your main option should be something that's tripless and unmashable

/end soap box on using tripless


But I think shield buffering will fix the problem you're talking about. It's like the 2nd CG question asked by every new IC lol

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Delux, you also have to realize that f/b doesn't work on some characters efficiently, such as MK and Snake. Their body shapes are really awkward for it.

 

[DeLux]

I do it on MK no problem, although I know what you mean on the hurtbox orientation
But even with like Snake, I'd advocate Dthrow walking them followed by either a hobble turn around or one fthrow bthrow turn around depending on the stage

I die a little when I see you guys trip on a high profile match when CGing. But at the same time, I don't harp too much for you or X high profile IC because you started playing before tripless things, so your reps are significantly higher with PB/ND than it would be with PF/NB. Meaning there'd probably be a significantly higher drop rate for you guys on PF/NB than there would be on PB/ND+trip rate.

I'm more talking about the people that have 0 reps with PB/ND AND 0 reps with PF/NB and ask "what CG should I learn first?". All of them could do something tripless since they don't have to worry about that "I already can do it that way" barrier/threshold

 

[Crackle]

I do it on MK no problem, although I know what you mean on the hurtbox orientation
But even with like Snake, I'd advocate Dthrow walking them followed by either a hobble turn around or one fthrow bthrow turn around depending on the stage

I die a little when I see you guys trip on a high profile match when CGing. But at the same time, I don't harp too much for you or X high profile IC because you started playing before tripless things, so your reps are significantly higher with PB/ND than it would be with PF/NB. Meaning there'd probably be a significantly higher drop rate for you guys on PF/NB than there would be on PB/ND+trip rate.

I'm more talking about the people that have 0 reps with PB/ND AND 0 reps with PF/NB and ask "what CG should I learn first?". All of them could do something tripless since they don't have to worry about that "I already can do it that way" barrier/threshold

I am aware of tripless chainthrows but I hardly am consistent with them. Practicing them tends to be getting less far than practice on dthrow/bthrow so I am mastering the flexible cg I got first. If I put all my time in tripless then everytime I would play my friends they would **** on me and my experience with nana issues and close matches would be close to none. Instead I have a working metagame with them where they fear my chainthrow and dont try stupid stuff as if my tripless terrible chain throw is all they have to fear from grab.

Thats my reason. Im sure many ic's have a similar reason involving actually being able to use their character in matches during the first month of practice.

 

[DeLux]

You say that like losing in practice is a bad thing

 

[Crackle]

Playing the match a way that doesnt deal with the usual metagame is a bad thing imo. Its just boring.
Like if no one is scared of your grab, then you're not really experiencing ic's.

 

[DeLux]

In my experience, the players that play without fear, ignorance, and greed against ICs are the ones to watch out for.

If they possess any of those traits, it's significantly easier to work with and abuse. Without fear, ignorance, and greed, there is mastery. There aren't many, but they are out there.

If I were in your position (and we all were at one point), I'd be more satisfied in beating opponents when they are without fear. Because the only difference between them when scared and when not is patience on your end.

 

[Crackle]

In my experience, the players that play without fear, ignorance, and greed against ICs are the ones to watch out for.

If they possess any of those traits, it's significantly easier to work with and abuse. Without fear, ignorance, and greed, there is mastery. There aren't many, but they are out there.

If I were in your position (and we all were at one point), I'd be more satisfied in beating opponents when they are without fear. Because the only difference between them when scared and when not is patience on your end.

They are without fear...they just have to deal with the risk reward of chainthrows...

 

[Calvonta]

Is Chaingrabbing is the most important technique to learn first or actual Decyncing and melee?

I also have a problem Desyncing around "moving targets" I feel like I will get punished. I don't know how to actually explain, it's like my fingers won't listen to me when I try to Desync.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Is Chaingrabbing is the most important technique to learn first or actual Decyncing and melee?

I also have a problem Desyncing around "moving targets" I feel like I will get punished. I don't know how to actually explain, it's like my fingers won't listen to me when I try to Desync.

Figure out what suits you best; There is no better way to put it.

 

[Calvonta]

Figure out what suits you best; There is no better way to put it.

Thanks.

 

[infiniteV115]

What's the SDI multiplier on Nana's fair spike?

 

[SSBBDaisy]

why do people care about numbers in this game?

 

[reslived]

I've looked around for some help but I'm not sure how to go about asking this... I'm a new ICs guy and I'm trying to pick them up. I've worked on the CG but I'm sure that's not the most important aspect of their gameplay. How should I go about developing my skill with ICs?

 

[1PokeMastr]

What's the SDI multiplier on Nana's fair spike?

I think it's somewhere between 1.2 or 1.5, I know it definitely has a higher multiplier, Like Wolf's Dair spike at 1.5x.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I've looked around for some help but I'm not sure how to go about asking this... I'm a new ICs guy and I'm trying to pick them up. I've worked on the CG but I'm sure that's not the most important aspect of their gameplay. How should I go about developing my skill with ICs?

I see these like every two weeks now! Lol, so many baby IC players nowadays.

It takes practice just like anything else. One needs to attend tournaments and practice with the best players to see what your lacking.

As far as ICs, get at least 3-4 desyncs consistent & at least one Delux desync down. Read all the IC guides, check out old threads, get your control of ICs to a high level. Watch top ICs (9B, Vinnie, ESAM, Smoom, Hylian, Delux). There's so much you can do, but its really up to your dedication & practice group. If you practice w/ the best players then you can be the best. Ex: 4 NY/NJ players in top 5 & 2 Japan. #Apex 2013

 

[reslived]

thats the idea :D. im also a growing marth and i figured ICs could help a bit with some match-up discrepancies. also all the ICs performed well at apex xD. i'll practice a lot with techs and stuff. the old IC guides dont talk much about the CG thats why I thought I would ask here first. Gotta start getting those desyncs down now. Thanks :D.

 

[ch33s3]

I'm playing, and practicing again.

Yes, really.

Reslived (or whatever your funky username was), I'll be at your local this weekend if you want to ask me stuff.

 

[Rubberbandman]

why do people care about numbers in this game?

Numbers are static, which means they are a perfect representation for theories and mechanics. Some things might not have been figured out unless we knew all the underlying factors.

I've looked around for some help but I'm not sure how to go about asking this... I'm a new ICs guy and I'm trying to pick them up. I've worked on the CG but I'm sure that's not the most important aspect of their gameplay. How should I go about developing my skill with ICs?

I see these like every two weeks now! Lol, so many baby IC players nowadays.

I like how you're saying this as if you've been here for years on end. >_>

Practice all the time, and don't be afraid to try out new stuff.

I'm playing, and practicing again.

Yay Cheese <3 Glad to have you back.

 

[DeLux]

thats the idea :D. im also a growing marth and i figured ICs could help a bit with some match-up discrepancies. also all the ICs performed well at apex xD. i'll practice a lot with techs and stuff. the old IC guides dont talk much about the CG thats why I thought I would ask here first. Gotta start getting those desyncs down now. Thanks :D.

I would argue that the IC players under performed as compared to expectations at Apex

None in the top 8 while they were favorites to win. Admittedly those expectations were inflated in my opinion, but fact remains: we got out performed by ZSS and Marth

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I would argue that the IC players under performed as compared to expectations at Apex

None in the top 8 while they were favorites to win. Admittedly those expectations were inflated in my opinion, but fact remains: we got out performed by ZSS and Marth

They didn't underperform by much. ONE spot away is not that much at a tournament of that caliber. I'll agree that 9B was on my list to win, but he did his best. A lot of favorites didnt win anyways. Noone expected Salem to win. And 3 ICs placed top 16 which is more than any char except MK, which they lost too.

 

[DeLux]

Sentiments of trying their best aside, doesn't change the fact that ICs best in reality was 9th. And our big three were among the favorites to take it all. Still doesn't changed the fact that they were outplaced by ZSS, MK, Marth, and Olimar.

I blame skewed expectations due to the rulesset, but doesn't change the fact people seem to think this character is godlike when they are anything but that.

 

[B0NK]

I blame skewed expectations due to the rulesset, but doesn't change the fact people seem to think this character is godlike when they are anything but that.

People simply don't understand the character. Can't blame them since this character breaks the rules of how Smash is typically played because of the skewed risk vs reward. It's not easy to understand how to play the match-up without practicing against the character a fair amount.

People are scared of what they don't understand basically. The don't understand what it means when Nana is at least five frames behind at all times, when they are safely separated from each other, and how much simpler it is when you really only have to focus on not getting hit by one low range 6 frame move.

I know that's an oversimplification of the characters faults. But people really don't understand their simple faults or the match-up if I still see they can't edgeguard or keep ICs on the ledge with MK.

 

[B0NK]

ICs are still a good character with nice theoretical match-up spreads, still not as good as people think lol

 

[| Big D |]

ICs can 0 death anyone except for one character which is immune which just so happens to be themselves.

Broken IMO

 

[B0NK]

truuuuuuuu

 

[Rubberbandman]

I'm still amazed at how little people actually ask/look up about other characters tech skill, which leads to why I'm disappointed at how little people know about other characters. v_v

also I loled at BigD's avi. :V

 

[dettadeus]

Not even sure if it's worth asking what happened at the end but...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThYNA6uIggo

 

[DeLux]

Fusion glitch, I'll let smoom explain his "nana spiritual body" theory