General ICs Q&A Thread

[DewDaDash]

yea umm.. Q: How do I desynch like the way meep did in last nights live stream? Like where u make only 1 of the ice climbers short hop and ice breath, then the other 1 jumps afterwards and so on. Like what Do I press exactly to do this? Same goes for VVVVV

Also on battle field how do u make 1 of them fall through the platform when ur on top of it and fall through with ice breath then make the other come with it afterwards.

Tried self teaching it but cant seem to get it. Help me out?

 

[Sieguest]

yea umm.. Q: How do I desynch like the way meep did in last nights live stream? Like where u make only 1 of the ice climbers short hop and ice breath, then the other 1 jumps afterwards and so on. Like what Do I press exactly to do this? Same goes for VVVVV

Also on battle field how do u make 1 of them fall through the platform when ur on top of it and fall through with ice breath then make the other come with it afterwards.

Tried self teaching it but cant seem to get it. Help me out?

For desyncing, try one of the desync methods...
I didn't see the live stream, but knowing to get one started as fast as possible meep either did the pivot or start desync...just an educated guess...
For pivot...just do a pivot and during the animation input another command to start the desync...

For start desync, just hold a button and only Nana will act when the game starts

The making one fall through the platform is a buffer...inputed down on the control stick ahead of time to where only one climber would go through!

 

[Attila_]

at my first tournament using ice climbers last weekend i came third, losing to a very dair campy mk (more than anything because a crowd and shouting makes cgs very hard O_o). but anyway, afterwards i noticed that lain lost to m2k in his second set at apex quite badly cause he simply couldnt break the dair camp. so i got to thinking that perhaps there is a stage that would help. luigi's mansion.

now before everyone goes all 'wtf noob you dunno what youre talking about' just hear this out and think about it. i am well aware that luigi's is common thought to be mk's best stage. but, it would favor us for a couple of reasons...

1. when camping on the sides of the bottom level, he cannot camp above desynch blizzard, making the dair camp impossible and blizzard very difficult to penetrate.
2. if he tries to go around, you can push him away with uair (from above) or blizzards (on the other side).
3. if you land a grab, you can cg to the middle or either side and finish off, whereas he cannot move you away from techable ceilings in this way.
4. if you are good at teching, your sopo can live from ages under the ceiling.
5. if you/he break the walls (taking away your initial advantage), the stage is basically fd for a while, which is good for you.

i dont have a good mk i can test this out on til next tourny (next month), so i dunno, but it may be ok. so what do you guys reckon?

 

[Sieguest]

at my first tournament using ice climbers last weekend i came third, losing to a very dair campy mk (more than anything because a crowd and shouting makes cgs very hard O_o). but anyway, afterwards i noticed that lain lost to m2k in his second set at apex quite badly cause he simply couldnt break the dair camp. so i got to thinking that perhaps there is a stage that would help. luigi's mansion.

now before everyone goes all 'wtf noob you dunno what youre talking about' just hear this out and think about it. i am well aware that luigi's is common thought to be mk's best stage. but, it would favor us for a couple of reasons...

1. when camping on the sides of the bottom level, he cannot camp above desynch blizzard, making the dair camp impossible and blizzard very difficult to penetrate.
2. if he tries to go around, you can push him away with uair (from above) or blizzards (on the other side).
3. if you land a grab, you can cg to the middle or either side and finish off, whereas he cannot move you away from techable ceilings in this way.
4. if you are good at teching, your sopo can live from ages under the ceiling.
5. if you/he break the walls (taking away your initial advantage), the stage is basically fd for a while, which is good for you.

i dont have a good mk i can test this out on til next tourny (next month), so i dunno, but it may be ok. so what do you guys reckon?

Hmmm it sounds good, but what if MK takes you to the middle level of the Mansion, he can dair camp you there and on the top level of the mansion as well....MK could also destroy the wall opposite you and take away most of your ceiling advantage as well...you'd have to keep the walls from breaking and get MK to come down to the floor level of the building...

Hmm...just some thoughts...sounds good though!

 

[Attila_]

Hmmm it sounds good, but what if MK takes you to the middle level of the Mansion, he can dair camp you there and on the top level of the mansion as well....MK could also destroy the wall opposite you and take away most of your ceiling advantage as well...you'd have to keep the walls from breaking and get MK to come down to the floor level of the building...

Hmm...just some thoughts...sounds good though!

i was thinking that mk couldnt really take you anywhere, cause you have the projectile camping advantage (he'd be called for stalling if he just stood up there). alternatively hit with an ice block at the start and he has to approach lolol. if find yourself up there, just try to get under him or down to the bottom asap.

if he tries to the destroy the stage, then he's actively diminishing his own moves, and creating an fd for you guys to play on, which he banned against you for a reason, as doesnt give him a platform to run to when he's out of jumps.

i do plan on trying it out when i get the chance.

 

[Sieguest]

i was thinking that mk couldnt really take you anywhere, cause you have the projectile camping advantage (he'd be called for stalling if he just stood up there). alternatively hit with an ice block at the start and he has to approach lolol. if find yourself up there, just try to get under him or down to the bottom asap.

if he tries to the destroy the stage, then he's actively diminishing his own moves, and creating an fd for you guys to play on, which he banned against you for a reason, as doesnt give him a platform to run to when he's out of jumps.

i do plan on trying it out when i get the chance.

I could help you try it out if you want to! It's picked my interest of my half day lol!

 

[ChamP_SlayZ]

I jus started playin ICs like 3weeks ago I can chaingrab light weights n heavys jus fine but those **** medium weight characters r a pain in my ***! what's the most effective CG u guys do on characters like diddy?

 

[EverAlert]

When in doubt, use FThrow, the timing doesn't change for any character.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

When in doubt, use FThrow, the timing doesn't change for any character.

Wat. O.o

F-throw kind of differs timing for every character, but certain characters such as Lucas and Ness have a weird, different, n' challenging timing; especially Snake, R.O.B, MK, and the others who have a very different timing other than the usual characters like Marth, Bowser, and etc.

Diddy would be good for just f-throw or b-throw -> f-throw/d-throw.

 

[EverAlert]

I did the frame data myself, FThrow hitbox is on frame 25 for every character. >.>

Obviously the body frames of each character have some kind of effect. With certain characters you need to be more precise with your spacing because their hurtbox is so thin/small (ZSS, Mother Boys, Olimar...), while with others you can practically ignore your spacing (Bowser, Dedede...). It feels different because you need to pay attention to when you let go of the control stick in order to space properly, but the time you press the grab button does not change.

btw this is why you can buffer fthrow continuously on both Bowser and Falco even though they have completely different weights.

 

[Attila_]

I could help you try it out if you want to! It's picked my interest of my half day lol!

unless your in aus sometime soon, i cant really see that working O_o wifi over here is literally 10 times slower than that of the us... im going to a small meet tomorrow, there will be a few mks there, so ill see how they handle it (although they arent very good)... feel free to try it against any mks you know though

@champ_slayz: i find dthrow/fthrow/bthrow/dthrow the easiest on middleweights. after the fthrow theyre in the prefect position for an easy bthrow, so you can keep in a similar spot the whole time. timings are kinda hard to explain in words, but for a normal bthrow i generally slam the stick the way i need nana to face and press grab immediately after that. dthrow is just after they hit the ground.

 

[Jupz]

After a few weeks of practice, I'm getting better with the IC CG's.
It feels rewarding. What are some of the best ways to practice desynching?

 

[EverAlert]

Personally I try to do it up to 300% without ****ing up.

The idea being that by the time I actually pull it off, I'll be really consistent and automatic with it. If it's too easy/too hard, I adjust my goal appropriately in 100% increments.

Edit: I'm so silly, I thought he asked about CG Practice. D:

 

[Sieguest]

After a few weeks of practice, I'm getting better with the IC CG's.
It feels rewarding. What are some of the best ways to practice desynching?

Group mode......I always practice desynching there!

 

[r3d d09]

After a few weeks of practice, I'm getting better with the IC CG's.
It feels rewarding. What are some of the best ways to practice desynching?

I'm glad to see a d3 main making progress. I stopped playing him even though he's my main, but I find that IC's will fit my need. I love challenging characters or just OP ones =P except for MK.
I choose not to vote to ban him, because I want to pwn him at tournies xD

 

[Attila_]

is there a thread that has the data for a sopo dthrow chaingrab? like how many can be done on what characters? i have trouble estimating how much to do on certain characters...

 

[r3d d09]

is there a thread that has the data for a sopo dthrow chaingrab? like how many can be done on what characters? i have trouble estimating how much to do on certain characters...

That thread is in the making as we speak. can't remember who is doing it, think you can find out in the " we got lots to do" thread. maybe you can help the person out.

 

[DZhou]

When I hobble Wario, Nana does one of 3 jumps:
A very high jump (faces same way as popo)
A short jump (faces the other way)
A very, very short jump (faces the same way as popo)

Anyone know how to consistently do the last one (so that it is possible to charge a smash while Wario gets up)?

I think it has something to do with holding back while you hit jump and tapping once vs mashing jump. I'll try to test it more later.

 

[Smoom77]

Earlier, I used to main Lucario and those boards recommended me to use

R: Special
X: Grab
Z: Attack
No Tap Jump

Is there an dis/advantage for this configuration for ICs? I'm already used to it (I've been using it maybe a year), and I don't really know why it wouldn't work.

 

[r3d d09]

Earlier, I used to main Lucario and those boards recommended me to use

R: Special
X: Grab
Z: Attack
No Tap Jump

Is there an dis/advantage for this configuration for ICs? I'm already used to it (I've been using it maybe a year), and I don't really know why it wouldn't work.

I find to be a unique setup, but cool at the same time, I'd like to get better with No Tap Jump.
I think if you're good with it, it will help you out even more. so you can have your thumb * if you don't claw* on the buttons when CG'ing. nice setup.

it's like when I played Halo competitively. southpaw, claw, 10 sens, inverted.
I went from from inverted 7 sens to SP, claw 10 sens in a week.
like everyone is saying. muscle memory and dedication.

 

[Jupz]

Whatever you prefer. I don't think theres any reason why it wouldn't work.

 

[dre_89_]

Looking on these boards there's a billion CG combos, but surely not all of them are necessary. Is there just one CG that is better than all the rest?

What I'm saying is, I'm considering maining ICs, but for now I just want to learn the necessary chainrgab/s, so can someone please tell me what they are, and who/when they should be used. Please only pro ICs.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I'm not a pro so I'm gonna ignore that you said that lol.

Fthrow is good cause the timing is consistent throughout. However it's weakness is you need space to move.

Dthrow's not bad but doesn't work on platforms.

Bthrow has hard timing but I THINK it's the closest you're gonna get to an all purpose CG.

So if you want to learn only one do Bthrows and learn the timings. At a high enough percent you can Bthow into a charged Usmash.

 

[dre_89_]

Thanks, so despite all the different CGs, all you really have to do is link alternating throws until you can Nana fair spike them or usmash them.

 

[EverAlert]

Yes. USmash/FSmash preferably, spiking won't work if your opponent has any idea of what they're doing.

 

[r3d d09]

Yes. USmash/FSmash preferably, spiking won't work if your opponent has any idea of what they're doing.

Gimping works. wobbles ftw?

 

[EverAlert]

Wat? Not entirely sure what you're talking about...

 

[JustNoOne]

You really can't gimp wit Ice Climbers, you only have Ice Blocks and Blizzard to screw them up trying to get to the ledge.

Also a Fair spike on the ledge is good, but really, it should be only done like... once in a while since opponents can Smash DI onto the stage or edge tech it or something like that, but it's still something, a quick easy kill if your really unpredictable.

 

[r3d d09]

That tends to happen from time to time. . . just don't worry about it. it will make your mind implode... if you're lucky.
Uh... smile and wave boys, smile and wave

 

[Smoom77]

Looking on these boards there's a billion CG combos, but surely not all of them are necessary. Is there just one CG that is better than all the rest?

What I'm saying is, I'm considering maining ICs, but for now I just want to learn the necessary chainrgab/s, so can someone please tell me what they are, and who/when they should be used. Please only pro ICs.

Thanks in advance.

Well, technically, buffered b-throw>buffered f-throw. That's the fastest+most damaging other than buffered f-throw only. That is VERY easy to mess up, and you don't want to use that in competition. So yeah, I use buffered b-throw>buffered f-throw, if you're just starting ICs, just work on all of the throws to start. But focus on b-throw/f-throw.

 

[r3d d09]

with Buffer. is it just you're implementing the throw early, just like you normally buffer, or is it implementing the throw and the grab as a buffer?
Clarification pweeeez

 

[EverAlert]

He means constantly pressing Z then pressing a direction, so that grabs and throws buffer constantly. Normal buffering.

 

[Lotopius]

Hello there, I've just started learning the IC's as my alt main, and I have a few questions:

How do you shield with IC's?
I mean, there's a whole 6 frame difference between the moment popo shields and the moment nana does... I usually end up powershielding the attacks with popo and with a flying nana.

When nana is knocked away at mid-high percentages, where she is in a bad but not immediately dangerous position; do you rush to resynch her or let her come back to you while pressuring the opponent?
I used to have the reflex of rushing over to her, but she seems incapable of resynching correctly in the air, and upon landing, my opponent is usually waiting with a big smile on his face. The thing is, it seems nana is too dumb to come back to me correctly and happily stalls for some time doing fancy stuff such as grounded ice blocks, which is crying to be punished, especially since popo's attacks do not have a crazy amount of knockback/hitstun.

How do you approach with the IC's?
I know there is the staple iceblock/blizzard approach, but you can see it coming from miles away.
ftilt, dtilt, nair and bair's range are too short and I'm not stupid enough to use fair; I usually get smashed out of it.
Skall hammer works fine, but I find it too punishable when I miss against fast characters.
I can't shield cancel dash to shieldgrab, since nana shields 6 frames later

Is there any pattern to nana's behaviour, appart from the near systematic post-hitstun aerial iceblock and landing airdodge?

What is exactly the motion of the analog stick for the standing desynch? I find the guide unclear. Do you perform a tilt motion in one direction immediately followed by a smash motion in the other?

 

[EverAlert]

1. (Nana is 5 frames behind in Brawl, unlike Melee's 6) Predict and shield 5 frames early. Popo will regular-shield, while Nana will powershield. There's not a whole lot you can do about that, Ice Climbers are naturally at a 5 frame disadvantage when it comes to any kind of reaction.


2. There are a number of scenarios where you need and needn't go for Nana. The first is any kind of hit where both Climbers can't recover without Belay/Squall (you'll learn this distance in time). Obviously in these cases you should always go straight for Nana unless your opponent is specifically trying to stop you from saving her.

The second is where you don't need Belay/Squall, but your opponent breaks away in order to directly kill Nana. Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot you can do here, especially if they are using a character with a great air game (MK, Kirby, etc.). In these cases you should try to pressure your opponent and hope to knock them away or at least distract them enough so that he doesn't KO Nana. Don't follow them out over the edge in any instance, no matter how easy you think it will be to get back onstage afterward. You will die.

Finally, there is when Nana can recover by herself and isn't being targeted. In these cases you should let her recover by herself and play super-safe in the meantime, but also try to put pressure on him so he actually has to deal with you and can't just cop-out and go for Nana. When she's on the ledge, go synch with her ASAP cause she tends to do stupid **** when left alone.


3. lol. Don't approach with ICs unless you have to. As in REALLY have to, like Snake/ROB have to. In almost all cases you want to outcamp your opponent and force them to approach you (lots of Ice Shot works wonders); ICs approach game is ****. When you DO need to, desynched SH Blizzard is more or less the all-purpose approach, try to avoid just running in. Squall also works if you need to approach in the air due to some kind of tactic directly stopping you on the ground (eg ROB + Laser), but in general you want to stick to the ground if you can since ICs are MUCH better from below than above. About the shielding issue, see my answer to 1. Anyway, remember that predictable isn't necessarily bad. Blizzard as an approach can be seen from a mile away, but it still ***** some characters nonetheless.


4. There is a pattern to everything she does. I believe there was a thread a while ago analysing her AI. Basically just play ICs heaps and you'll get a feel for her. If you want to dig up that thread then by all means do so.


5. Just mashing Back-Forth-A works for me. Apparently you're supposed to tilt-mash or something but whatever. Then again I may be thinking of the wrong desynch, a lot of them are similar haha.

 

[Funen1]

4. There is a pattern to everything she does. I believe there was a thread a while ago analysing her AI. Basically just play ICs heaps and you'll get a feel for her. If you want to dig up that thread then by all means do so.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221074

Found it for you.

 

[dustman]

I'm currently practicing the backthrow / dthrow chaingrab, but i have a problem.

I can grab my opponent after the backthrow every time, but i have a problem when it comes to grabbing after the dthrow. If i dashgrab after dthrow, i have no problem, but i get the feeling, that this is a bad idea, since it requirres more space and increases the risk of tripping.
So i would like to ask for some tips on how to grab my opponent with popo after nana dthrows him. I get the feeling that i have to walk foward a bit, but i am not sure how much. I have seen videos, but i cannot seem to get the same effect myself. Only when i dashgrab with popo after nana dthrow can i do it every time.

 

[r3d d09]

He means constantly pressing Z then pressing a direction, so that grabs and throws buffer constantly. Normal buffering.

with constantly pressing Z, won't nana or popo shield at partial moments? I'd love to be able to get this down.

 

[Smoom77]

It's just more timing on top of the regular chaingrabbing timing.

You're not just pressing grab, you're pressing grab and pressing a direction a bit before the first CG ends. It buffers, which means even though you pressed to the right (for a b-throw) before he grabbed, it'll still respond and b-throw. Meaning...the b-throw will come out as soon as the grabbing lag ends.

 

[r3d d09]

It's just more timing on top of the regular chaingrabbing timing.

You're not just pressing grab, you're pressing grab and pressing a direction a bit before the first CG ends. It buffers, which means even though you pressed to the right (for a b-throw) before he grabbed, it'll still respond and b-throw. Meaning...the b-throw will come out as soon as the grabbing lag ends.

I know what buffering is, just wanted more info on buffer CG'ing. is it hard to get the buffering grabs down? isn't it .5 seconds buffer or something like that?

 

[Smoom77]

I have no idea about frame rates, but you just need to think of buffering CGs the same as buffering attacks. They're not different, just this is with grabs.