General ICs Q&A Thread

[Attila_]

Can someone recommend a vid properly demonstrating the ics marth mu?

 

[Hylian]

Can someone recommend a vid properly demonstrating the ics marth mu?

Blizzard wall him until he jumps. When he jumps desync and IB where you think he's going to land and run towards him. If he fairs you can

A: Spotdodge grab
B: Powershield grab
C: If the IB connects just hit-confirm grab

When he's really close to you and good at hitting you out of blizzard, make sure you are retreating your blizzards. If you see marth just dashing towards you while you blizzard, you KNOW he's going to jump so just dash grab him and you will grab him out of his jump, or just back off some.

Learn bungie-jumping for edgeguarding, and throw IBs at him when he's far and down to hit him out of his side-b(which most do to stall).

Don't let him trick you into getting above him. If they full hop right above you, they probably just want to FF airdodge your uair and start juggling you.

 

[hedgehog9597]

Hey guys, so I was wondering something.
Why do all of the pros (in recent videos... 9b anyone) still use the popo bthrow to nana dthrow/fthrow instead of the 2011 CG?
I never see them trip while doing it... is there a tripless version? If so, is it better than the 2011 CG in some way?

 

[-LzR-]

It's the one they have learned so they use it until they become consistent with the better one. I'm not sure if the japanese even know of the 2011 cg either.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

no one posts vids of themselves tripping during a cg lol

 

[Rykard]

So i apparently saved this 3 years ago, but never had the recording equipment to actually get it on youtube. Some weird glitch happens when Nana catches the stage with belay, but popo never gets pulled up because the ground from the stage cancels the ledge grab animation causing popo to get stuck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70JlbsIwJik

i've seen a similar video of this on youtube here, but this seems like a completely different set of circumstances

 

[Rubberbandman]

It's the one they have learned so they use it until they become consistent with the better one. I'm not sure if the japanese even know of the 2011 cg either.

They do know of it, before they came to Apex as well.

 

[Attila_]

Blizzard wall him until he jumps. When he jumps desync and IB where you think he's going to land and run towards him. If he fairs you can

A: Spotdodge grab
B: Powershield grab
C: If the IB connects just hit-confirm grab

When he's really close to you and good at hitting you out of blizzard, make sure you are retreating your blizzards. If you see marth just dashing towards you while you blizzard, you KNOW he's going to jump so just dash grab him and you will grab him out of his jump, or just back off some.

Learn bungie-jumping for edgeguarding, and throw IBs at him when he's far and down to hit him out of his side-b(which most do to stall).

Don't let him trick you into getting above him. If they full hop right above you, they probably just want to FF airdodge your uair and start juggling you.

thanks for the summary, hylian.

retreating blizzard is something that i hadn't really considered.

is bungee jumping considered safe? personally i'd be worries about getting hit by his upB, and then getting separated.

any videos that you'd recommend i watch?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

what is bungee jumping, and how do u retreat blizzard without turning ICs around?

 

[TheSaintKai]

what is bungee jumping, and how do u retreat blizzard without turning ICs around?

I tried to find a video of bungee jumping but couldn't. Oh well, I'll describe it to you.
On the ledge with both climbers.
Tap back.
Jump immediately and enter Up-B simultaneously.
The momentum from your jump will carry Popo barely over the edge, while Nana grabs the edge.
If you use this when Marth Up-B's to the edge, Popo will get hit by Dolphin Slash ONTO THE STAGE, since he is above the lip, while Nana is completely invincible and will edge hog him.


Edit: This can be used to edgehog a LOT of people. The only people you can't edgehog with this are people with a good enough recovery to carry them onto the stage without grabbing the edge, such as Sonic or MK. Or Ganon and C. Falcon, because they'll grab Popo and jump up.


And as for retreating blizzard...
well.
You start blizzard wall.
Jump (in this example, facing right.)
Tap left. You will start to move left while facing right.
Down-B.

Voila.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

making it not do a turn around b is annoying. but i gotcha. thx dude

 

[Rubberbandman]

what is bungee jumping

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-RHxha0VX4

and how do u retreat blizzard without turning ICs around?

Too vague for this unit, does not compute.

 

[BadKarma]

So I'm having a little trouble with the mk mu. My friend plays mk and he dairs my shield a few times the nado's and it shield pokes me every time. He spaces the dairs diagonally so I can't Uair him very easily and most of the time he spaces nado so I can't pivot grab it. Would power shield to Uair be the best option? or would it be too risky since its really hard to get nana to power shield with popo? any tips/advice would be very helpful.

Thanks!!!

 

[Stealth Raptor]

depending on when you get shield poked, you can spot dodge in the middle of nado and you will come out of it as mk comes out of nado and you can get a grab that way

 

[Roller]

Yo. Dabuz's mashing vs Vinnie today was absurd. You could tell Vinnie was ****ing up just from the pressure to go as fast as he possibly could and not **** up his spacing between throws.

 

[dettadeus]

So I actually got around to practicing the tripless chaingrab today.
Goddang, it is actually a lot more difficult than I thought.

I can manage about 5 repetitions before I drop at an F-Throw > Nana regrab. I think it's just because Nana isn't close enough to regrab when I input F-Throw.
About how far should Nana move for every F-Throw input? As minimal a distance as possible, just a little bit, etc.?

 

[Sylarius]

Am I doing the 2011 CG right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lDzd3XPN6I
Just want to make sure.

Also, I wish I knew the answer dettadeus, but I'd rather have someone more experienced answer than me.

 

[Smoom77]

It looks pretty good. Sometimes nana walks a little too far, but that's it.

 

[Rubberbandman]

So I'm having a little trouble with the mk mu. My friend plays mk and he dairs my shield a few times the nado's and it shield pokes me every time. He spaces the dairs diagonally so I can't Uair him very easily and most of the time he spaces nado so I can't pivot grab it. Would power shield to Uair be the best option? or would it be too risky since its really hard to get nana to power shield with popo? any tips/advice would be very helpful.

Thanks!!!

Even if he spaces it diagonally, you should still have the time to get in an Uair, or at least pressure him to do something.

And high nados can be tech chased.
Since nado has 3 mains points to it: start, poking/chipping , finish. If they start from any distance away from you, you can shield. Then they go into poking at your shield; if your shield has the potential to be poked (aka its taken a lot of damage before the nado started or you shielded way too early) then its most likely to happen here, the best you can do is just spotdodge or roll out as late as possible to prevent juggling, but its not optimal. At the finish of nado though, is when they try to retreat to take as little punishment as possible, but if you predict where they go, you can roll/spotdodge and get better punishes.

I get more grabs off of MKs wanting to nado my desynched blizzards than almost anything else, its not really smart of them to continuously try.

 

[DeLux]

So I'm having a little trouble with the mk mu. My friend plays mk and he dairs my shield a few times the nado's and it shield pokes me every time. He spaces the dairs diagonally so I can't Uair him very easily and most of the time he spaces nado so I can't pivot grab it. Would power shield to Uair be the best option? or would it be too risky since its really hard to get nana to power shield with popo? any tips/advice would be very helpful.

Thanks!!!

Level 1 option: Use platform to shield from high nado and clip with Blizzard to force accidental drill rush > Grab
Level 2 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > Pivot Grab
Level 3 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > Shield > try to punish his landing
Level 4 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > Shield > before last hit of Nado, roll through Nado (and the last hit hit of nado) to trap him in a spot > Grab
Level 5 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > Shield > before last hit of nado, spot dodge (and sidestep the last hit of nado) if he's going for a shield poke and doesn't leave your shield > Grab
Level 6 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > RSC > Charge Forward Smash > Pray your spacing is immaculate and/or the MK runs into you > hit with forward smash



Notice the motif of the story I just told you. It is easily the most important part.

 

[Dabuz]

Level 1 option: Use platform to shield from high nado and clip with Blizzard to force accidental drill rush > Grab
Level 2 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > Pivot Grab
Level 3 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > Shield > try to punish his landing
Level 4 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > Shield > before last hit of Nado, roll through Nado (and the last hit hit of nado) to trap him in a spot > Grab
Level 5 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > Shield > before last hit of nado, spot dodge (and sidestep the last hit of nado) if he's going for a shield poke and doesn't leave your shield > Grab
Level 6 Option: Use Platform to force low nado to make him over commit > RSC > Charge Forward Smash > Pray your spacing is immaculate and/or the MK runs into you > hit with forward smash



Notice the motif of the story I just told you. It is easily the most important part.

The motif of the story is grab that ***** for nadoing?

 

[DeLux]

More like, if you like your shield, you will use a platform in the MK matchup lol

And bait the nado for a grab imo

 

[BadKarma]

Thank you, I'm definitely gonna try to put that into my game :D.
also on battle field, I know that you can nair somebody on a platform and they will hit the ground then you can IB and get a grab, but I don't know what the percents are, I'm assuming they are low. are the percents character dependent or does it only work below like 15% or something?

 

[DeLux]

Not all character are guaranteed to hit the ground on ledge slip.

I used to have a list on my old lap top that I no longer have

But it's percent dependent or if they are in shield dependent.

If they hit the ground is character dependent on how high the platform is as well.

Some stages it's actually better to not go for the IB since it doesn't put them in force get up and just true resets them as well. A tech chase is better than a true reset in that scenario.

 

[Sylarius]

That's edge slips mechanics you're talking about, where you're pushed off the edge of the stage or a platform by an attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFtJDxsqMs
It's possible to tech it, so it's not guaranteed, and slow falling characters can get out of it since they don't hit the ground fast enough, but usually it's easy to do if the opponent isn't really expecting it...

EDIT: I'm watching the video right now and apparently fast falling characters CAN'T tech it if they are still in the edge slip animation. I might be wrong about everything but if I'm not.. *evil grin*

 

[DeLux]

It's not possible to tech for certain characters which is why i wanted my spread sheet so I can see which characters on which platforms it's not possible >_>

 

[dettadeus]

Is the range on U-Special's resync really this big?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXMf5Cf-W5Y&t=2m30s

Or was that just some cool glitch?

 

[Smoom77]

Nope, the resync range is really that big.

 

[Rubberbandman]

It's not possible to tech for certain characters which is why i wanted my spread sheet so I can see which characters on which platforms it's not possible >_>

List is:

BF:
Metaknight
Snake
Diddy
Wario
Falco
Fox
D3
Wolf
Sheik
Captain Falcon
Ganon
Bowser
Link
Donkey Kong
Pikachu
Zero Suit Samus
Lucas
Sonic
Squirtle
Charizard
Ike
Pit

Smashville platform:
Fox
Falco

 

[Ori_bro]

Delux I'm having trouble with the tripless chaingrab. What is the best way to set up proper spacing for it? I know its FT>BT but I think my spacing is off.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Practice.

10Practicemakesperfectsostopaskinghowtocginhere

 

[Cygnet]

Even though practice is the answer to everything, perfect practice makes perfect, not just grinding it out. (Because who knows? You might be doing and practicing something fundamentally wrong.... maybe.)

The perfect spacing is really just one tiny step for Nana so that she's sort of overlapping Popo still. (In my personal opinion, someone correct me if I'm wrong, which is likely.)

Press forwards as slightly as you can (the less, the better, because I don't really think you can get..... too close, so if it's not working, smaller!).

 

[DeLux]

Some characters you have to walk out further to consistently regrab (like MK/Ness off the top of my head)

 

[Skadorski]

Is there a video showing all desync methods? I searched YT and this thread and didn't find any (I know where to find a list of them I just wanted to see them in action).
Thanks!

 

[Smoom77]

Umm, there's not really any videos that specify between all the desyncs (unless by someone that we don't know). You'll just have to post videos of players' videos and we can tell you what desync they're doing.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Is there a video showing all desync methods? I searched YT and this thread and didn't find any (I know where to find a list of them I just wanted to see them in action).
Thanks!

DIDNT I SAY TO DO THIS LIKE LAST YEAR GUYS? No one listens to me when I have useful ideas. That would probably shut down most of the functions of this thread though.

 

[DeLux]

The things is, I don't know if anyone can do all the desyncs to even make a video >_>

 

[Sieguest]

DIDNT I SAY TO DO THIS LIKE LAST YEAR GUYS? No one listens to me when I have useful ideas. That would probably shut down most of the functions of this thread though.

O. O How many of us have the equipment to do that though? I'm pretty sure that's what stopped most of us from doing that last year.

 

[dettadeus]

I could probably make a video when I have all of the desyncs down. I can do quite a few of them.

I can also record replays if people send them to me for the ones I can't do.

 

[Rubberbandman]

O. O How many of us have the equipment to do that though? I'm pretty sure that's what stopped most of us from doing that last year.

I recently got easy cap, so yeah...