t3h n00b
Smash Ace
Is fthrow alternating or just with Popo like dthrow? And so you can only charge a smash when Nana grabs?
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General ICs Q&A Thread
- Thread starter smaci92
- Start date
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
or vica versa. Nana can charge while Popo Grabs. you can do Fthrow alternate or Fthwor Dthroow alternate or Bthrow Fthrow alt
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
that never works for me. i cant get the cg's to work at all. i tried going on practice mode at 1/4 the speed, but could not get the timing right. can anyone help me at all???
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
I can't help with the chaingrabs, but if you have trouble with the C-stick+Z smash charging like I did, I hit Z a little after I hit the C-stick, it didn't seem to work when I hit them at the same time. And also, maybe try at 1/2 speed on training? 1/4 sounds kind of too slow, but whatever works for you.
Funen1
Smash Journeyman
Keep practicing, you'll find out the timing eventually. And I personally wouldn't do it at 1/4 speed, it really screws up your timing for obvious reasons.
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
well what would you recommend? i would also try not to rely on that too much because my opponent, who is the only decent person in town changes his priorities to not getting grabbed. do you have any other advice? he is a lucario user. he usually hunts down nana and when he does kill her, it sort of makes it harder to get a kill because of his hit boxes outranging mine
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
the only trouble i have is getting close enough to him to combo him at all, but when i grab, i can rack up damage but its rare, i have no trouble charging a smash at all. alos, what do i have to hit when i try to cg? i mean like the order, for lets say forward throw cg. what do i need to hit? thanks for previous posts!
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
As long as you have two Ice Climbers, I find it easier to try to rack up damage and try to get your opponent scared of the Ice Climbers' regular options, then go for grabs when they start shielding a lot or using a laggy move that misses. Like I said, I'm not that good with the chaingrabs, but I usually win my matches. Bair is a really good move with a solo Ice Climber, if you space it right, you can almost never get grabbed even if it's shielded.
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
ok thanks!
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
lol i just realized. my opponent is afraid of my ice climbers lol. he spends the entire match avoiding my grab because he knows their potential and also focuses on killing nana. any advice for this dilema? he mains lucario and is faster than me. also, got any advice for edge guarding. he usually spams d-air/"omega stomp" as they call it. it is a stage spike and very annoying. he gets up from the ledge too quickly and it scroos me over big time
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
An Ice Block cancels out a fully charged Aura Sphere. It takes you 1 second to shoot 2 IBs, while it take Luc a lot longer to charge up 1 sphere. You win the camping game. Just space blizzards and tilts and such...
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
okay. thanks. any advice for the ledge game or keeping nana alive?
Diddyknight
Smash Lord
ledge game is fun. Desync SH Blizzard helps a lot. what i do to keep nana alive is Nair if its desync and nair again to sync it. side B back on sage...
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
what are your tactics for making back up from the ledge. we have the standard get up attack but if they space it they can punish our crap range. we also have the drop -> jump -> squall tactic, but it can get pretty predictable. same goes for the drop -> jump -> blizzard onto the stage. i've also tried the drop -> ice blocks -> regrab for ledge camping, but that too can be pretty predictable as well. what do you guys do?
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
well the problem isnt when i have nana. he tends to stay at a decent range when i do. he knows my weakness and kills nana so my recovery is ****ed. ill usually f-b my way but he uses invincablity frames against me and gimps almost everytime. what could i do about that?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
um.... thats not what i'm talking about. i'm saying once i have the ledge what do i do. but i've been watching seme lain fights and i think i have my answer.
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
were you answering my question? its hard to get past a Luc on the edge
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
the problem is making it to the ledge as well. i can sort of get up when i grab on to the ledge. its getting that grab without nana
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
you didn't mention lucario in your post, but from what i've seen, try and avoid having to grab the ledge. if you can make it back on without having to go for the ledge then do it. otherwise you can do a mixture of drop -> jump -> squall and drop -> jump -> blizzard onto the stage. additionally, if they're far enough away you can drop -> jump fair/nair/uair depending on their approach. overall, though, you're gonna want to avoid grabbing the ledge if you can.
mikekleman
Smash Cadet
ok thanks!
Kage Me
Smash Ace
What's the best way to recover on Yoshi's Island? Belay puts you on the ledge, which is bad, but Squall gets gimped by the Support Ghost...
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
Up+B gives you some height here if you need about half a jump vertically, but it doesn't help much. Squall hammer is good for horizontal recovery, but doesn't sweetspot the ledge and is easily punished when you have one Ice Climber, so it is usually not a good idea unless you won't make it back any other way. If you tap B quickly (while in squall hammer), you will rise a little, but not as much as if you had Nana with you, and you have to get all the way over the ledge- even if no one's edgehogging, you will bounce off the stage if you hit the edge. Ice blocks make you rise in midair a little, and help with edgeguarders.
lain
Smash Master
A lot of people never expect you to squall 4,000 ft into the air.
Squall with both IC's = ****.
Squall with both IC's = ****.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i watched some of your vids vs panda and some others. you hardley ever grab the ledge. you always try to make it back onto the stage. i'm trying to impliment this into my own play style. as well as the desynced blizzards/ice blocks and aerials. i also noticed that you usually only use squall to get back to the stage and not much else. i compared that to other ICs that i've seen and the majority (myself included) use squall a lot while on the stage. i've found that this can get very predictable very fast so i should save it for recoveries and the occasional punish.
i think i've pinpointed what sets you appart from other ICs:
mastery of CGs (duh)
use tils/aerials to build damage/knock back (very few smashes)
little to no rolling/a lot of spotdoddging/perfect shielding
spacing blizzards and ice blocks to force an approach and then punish (most ICs should have this down, but few can space/trap as well as lain)
not relying on the ledge for recovery (mostly squalls/air dodges back onto the stage so as to avoid ledge tactics)
still implement the edge spike (but only at 200% and up. everything else is up smash)
great character/attack spacing (as with all high level players)
uses all/quick desyncs (those on purpose and otherwise)
i'm going to try and impliment these into my play style. with luck i'll be able to get a lot better than i currently am. i'm going to a tourney saturday (reflex will be there :-/) so i'll use that as a 'crash-corse-in-what-i'm-doing-wrong' expereince.
lain
Smash Master
That was pretty good. I think there are a lot more things to it then that though. Maybe I'm just high x_x LOL
on a side note, i don't try to always get on the stage. I go for whatever looks safest. Most of the time my opponent doesn't expect a quick moving squall hammer in their direction, and if they do they rarely shield the entire thing. But I have to be sure it will happen.
srsly gaiz, learn from me. I am at least the second best IC in the nation (because everyone except for like Fly was COT4), and I think my style of play really works.
on a side note, i don't try to always get on the stage. I go for whatever looks safest. Most of the time my opponent doesn't expect a quick moving squall hammer in their direction, and if they do they rarely shield the entire thing. But I have to be sure it will happen.
srsly gaiz, learn from me. I am at least the second best IC in the nation (because everyone except for like Fly was COT4), and I think my style of play really works.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
there probably is more stuff that i just didn't pick up on.
i think it makes sense to go for whats safest, but most people see the ledge as being safest. its not alway. once you're on the ledge you have a few seconds of invincibility and then its in their advantage. sometimes the ledge is a good idea, but generally only in certain situations. its the ability to differentiate between these situations thats key to success.
and i've also notice most people don't shield the whole squall. it usually ends with them expecting it to be over or worrying about their shield breaking.
i think it makes sense to go for whats safest, but most people see the ledge as being safest. its not alway. once you're on the ledge you have a few seconds of invincibility and then its in their advantage. sometimes the ledge is a good idea, but generally only in certain situations. its the ability to differentiate between these situations thats key to success.
and i've also notice most people don't shield the whole squall. it usually ends with them expecting it to be over or worrying about their shield breaking.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i applied some of the lain tactics (against computers, nobody was around) and all i can say is ****! i've gotten to the point where i'm perfect shielding almost all attacks, comboing desyncs.... even chain grabbing. yes. i chain grabbed. it was only fthrow alts, but i actually cg'd in a match. and it felt good.... dear god, WHATS HAPPENING TO ME!?
lain
Smash Master
You're turning into a legit IC player LOL
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i feel.... cold..... i think i like it....
lain
Smash Master
.......o_O wat?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
ugh, you ruined it. well just forget the whole thing now. i'll go practice my CGs in the morning....
boredpsycopath
Smash Cadet
how do u effectively CG backwards i have all the other cg's down lol to about 60% then it breaks
hdrevolution123
Smash Ace
Why can't I perform the chain grab?
I trained for hours in training after having watched three IC chain grab video tutorials and read all relevant and significant chain grab threads. All I can do is the down throw CG effectively but that's not the best. I tried to do the dthrow fair but I couldn't get the sweetspot at all! Don't get me started on alternate grabs. I tried this for AGES but couldn't perform a single one. For the fthrow one, I tilted the control stick forward to get Nana forward but still didn't work. Totally failed with the back throw and down throw alternate.
Some1 PLEASE help me!
I really need the help.
Thanks
HD
I trained for hours in training after having watched three IC chain grab video tutorials and read all relevant and significant chain grab threads. All I can do is the down throw CG effectively but that's not the best. I tried to do the dthrow fair but I couldn't get the sweetspot at all! Don't get me started on alternate grabs. I tried this for AGES but couldn't perform a single one. For the fthrow one, I tilted the control stick forward to get Nana forward but still didn't work. Totally failed with the back throw and down throw alternate.
Some1 PLEASE help me!
I really need the help.
Thanks
HD
t3h n00b
Smash Ace
The only thing I can help with is the Nana fair. You want it to spike, so the area to try to hit with is the end of the hammer, with it parallel to the ground. You can try it on training mode at 999%, with or without grabs. If you spike with it, you won't kill your opponent no matter the percent (assuming they're on the stage).
hdrevolution123
Smash Ace
LOL no one ever uses the Q&A thread here and always posts them randomly in the IC boards. Poor Hylian.
Anyway I wanted to ask y'all how to perform the 'Hylian infinite grab' which I have heard of. The QA thread is for simple and quick question so don't complain to me that I must read the stickies cos I've already read some. Another question is how can I perform any other difficult but highly rewarding infinite grabs that are feared in matches?
Thanks
HD
Anyway I wanted to ask y'all how to perform the 'Hylian infinite grab' which I have heard of. The QA thread is for simple and quick question so don't complain to me that I must read the stickies cos I've already read some. Another question is how can I perform any other difficult but highly rewarding infinite grabs that are feared in matches?
Thanks
HD
lain
Smash Master
ok Seriously Guys, I Dunno What Your Problem Is But A Lot Of People Don't Seem To Understand That You Grab Someone And Then They Die. Don't Make It Flashy, Don't Take Risks, Don't Go For Cg's That Might Not Work, just Kill Them.
Levitas
the moon
Lain, you are my favorite person for all of today.