General ICs Q&A Thread

[Prawn]

But isnt the CG a 'must learn' for the IC?

Yeah once you're good. Learn to play ICs first or you're gonna go through the longest scrubby period like I did. Seriously it's not fun. Watch what Lain/Meep and others do between grabs, Bair spacing, Uair pressure, desyncs(super important).

Learn to GET the grab, then learn to chaingrab

 

[theunabletable]

^Idk. A while back I learned the CG (mostly because I just had spare time) when I didn't even play ICs. Then when I first started going to tourneys and figured out I didn't really have a competent main I decided to play ICs because I already knew how to 0-death and I figured that was the hardest part to master, so why not.

But I suck so my opinion probably doesn't mean anything...

 

[FrozenHobo]

But isnt the CG a 'must learn' for the IC?

i beg to differ.

 

[Prawn]

Yeah FrozenPopo plays without them.

 

[DUB]

Does anyone use Halberd as CP?

I am starting to like this stage for a a couple of reasons.

Ice Blocks continue to travel in the "trench" on the aerial part of the stage. I usually use running shield stop desynch to get to one side of the stage and begin to IB/Blizzard. If they try to go over the blizzards i use the platform as protection and spam u-airs.

Low cieling = earlier kills of the top....duh. I can finish my chaingrabs on this stage earlier. The less grabsI have to pull off = the less likely I am to mess up.

The grounded part is long with a nice platform in the middle. I pretty much just pick a side and then try to use my desynchs to get in. The Dash desynch and Shield Stop make it easy to get to one of the far sides and IB/Blizzard as fast as possible.

The only thing is, when I play here I play near the edge a lot. If they do get through my foretress i might be getting hit off. Thoughts? Comments?

 

[phi1ny3]

What are the more reliable desynching methods that are a bit more safer? Would pivot hit/ pivot Ice block be good staples?

 

[theunabletable]

^Pivot desynch is probably your safest.

I have a question. Has ANYONE else noticed that when you're hitting someone with side-b you don't rise NEARLY as much? I've had that happen twice where someone gets hit by my side-b off-stage and I would instantly stop rising and die.

 

[PUNK9]

Yeah once you're good. Learn to play ICs first or you're gonna go through the longest scrubby period like I did. Seriously it's not fun. Watch what Lain/Meep and others do between grabs, Bair spacing, Uair pressure, desyncs(super important).

Learn to GET the grab, then learn to chaingrab

well is there a thread i can look at just to learn everything about the IC? i main pikachu, but i want to secdondary the IC. or do any of you have some adive
?

 

[Firestormzero0]

^Pivot desynch is probably your safest.

I have a question. Has ANYONE else noticed that when you're hitting someone with side-b you don't rise NEARLY as much? I've had that happen twice where someone gets hit by my side-b off-stage and I would instantly stop rising and die.

yes, i already knew this, that y if your trying to recover its best to avoid from getting hit or hitting anything else. unless your already hovering above the stage. you totally lose all your vertical momentum. it sucks.

 

[phi1ny3]

If you're SoPo, it's even worst lol.

 

[Firestormzero0]

If you're SoPo, it's even worst lol.

yeah im always like FML when that happens...

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I might big might pick up brawl again for easy de-synces. I hated brawl ice climber for their down-B, wd down-smash, tech skill and grab stuff. But if anyone plays melee and brawl ice climbers can you tell me how they feel? I can't remember but does the brawl ice climbers down-smash feel? I don't rememeber how it felt in the game is amazing? to the point were you try to spam it to death?

I mean I LOOVVVEEE melee down-smash SSSOOOO much I would chain throw with it, wd it and stuff. I,ve made a video on youtube that showed a bunch of down-smash stuff like de-syned down-smash killing master hand on battlefield. Really to me if it doesn't feel as good sorry it would be really hard to try brawl again and if I do I hope my eyes don't burn like before.

But yeah can you de-synce air moves? the game is slowed down so much I would think you can.

 

[Smoom77]

Can you do a buffered f,b, and dthrow? I mean, is it possible?

 

[theunabletable]

^Yeah. The only way to Dthrow CG on platforms is to buffer the Dthrow.

I have a question about doubles...

Are ICs viable at ALL in doubles? And if-so, how different do you play them?

I'm gonna be doing doubles for the first time this Saturday and I'm wondering if it would be worth it to learn them in doubles, or just go Kirby or MK.

 

[EverAlert]

IMO Ice Climbers have some crazy untapped doubles potential, but the amount of effort needed means nobody's really done anything with it/they're written them off as unviable.

Go MK.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i use them in doubles because every other character i use (besides yoshi) gets wrecked. they're actually pretty viable if you have a good team mate. honestly, CGing in doubles is pretty useless as the other person will just come in and stop you. if you can play them well and abuse your teammate as a distraction they can be pretty good. but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to use them very well. its very easy in all the chaos to lose nana.

i will say, though, that i do prefer using them in teams (but i wouldn't recommend it unless you know what you're doing).

 

[phi1ny3]

So when I'm doing bthrow to dthrow, how do I get nana to not input a grab inbetween throws, and thus delay the next throw? (aka make them flow one after the other, instead of bthrow -> miss grab -> dthrow, etc.)

 

[Funen1]

So when I'm doing bthrow to dthrow, how do I get nana to not input a grab inbetween throws, and thus delay the next throw? (aka make them flow one after the other, instead of bthrow -> miss grab -> dthrow, etc.)

Do you mean missing the grab after the D-throw? Nana's the one catching the B-throw, after all, so if you miss there then the CG ends.

If it's after the D-throw, you either have to input Popo's grab very early (though not so early that you miss), or have Popo do a shieldgrab so that Nana will bring up and drop her shield quickly (I believe it's still faster than having her whiff the grab between throws).

 

[phi1ny3]

Yea whoops, that's what I meant, Nana messes up after dthrow, and it makes the CG much slower, so they have a chance of breaking out.

 

[Jupz]

Just hold down grab a little longer when catching the Dthrow with Popo. Nana's shield will pop out and then you can throw to her.

 

[Turazrok]

I have a question. I'm just starting IC"s and I went throught the basics and have moved onto cgs. I'm trying to fthrow chain but I always mess up after the 3rd grab. Is it something to do with nana's frame difference or whatever or am I just doing it wrong?

 

[Baro]

I have a question. I'm just starting IC"s and I went throught the basics and have moved onto cgs. I'm trying to fthrow chain but I always mess up after the 3rd grab. Is it something to do with nana's frame difference or whatever or am I just doing it wrong?

depends what character you're trying it on.

 

[EverAlert]

depends what character you're trying it on.

No it doesn't. There is no frame difference for FThrow.



Turazrok - "You're just doing it wrong." Just keep practicing and you'll naturally get better at it over time. :3

 

[Turazrok]

No it doesn't. There is no frame difference for FThrow.



Turazrok - "You're just doing it wrong." Just keep practicing and you'll naturally get better at it over time. :3

I have been. Still can only get up to three but I've chained a bthrow on bowser once and marth twice.

 

[Prawn]

here's a question,

WHY THE **** DO I PLAY THIS GAME WHEN PEOPLE JUST GO MK AND ****ING CAMP ALL ****ING DAY AND TIME ME OUT AND ****. ITS ****ING STUPID AND I DONT KNOW HOW TO BEAT IT, I JUST WASTED ALL DAY AT A TOURNY TO NOT EVEN WIN ONE ****ING SET. WHAT THE ****.

 

[phi1ny3]

The biggest reason why is that you have the same throw happening for both characters. Therefore, you get the timing for Popo the first because it's easy, you delay just a bit for Nana, but the third is a lot faster than expected, you need practice, but I personally find fthrow when used on the right people (Bowser, DDD, etc.) to be one of the easiest.

 

[DrPain]

I am JUST starting with the ICs, how do they fair in 4-player groups, I'm a little worried about Nana.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I am JUST starting with the ICs, how do they fair in 4-player groups, I'm a little worried about Nana.

first few times you'll get *****. then, if you have enough skill/are smart one of two things will happen:

1) you'll realize ICs are bad in FFAs and stick to G&W

or

2) you'll get better at keeping track of nana and actually pull some stuff off.


keep in mind, in 4 people matches (FFAs or doubles) CGs are pretty much useless.

 

[DrPain]

first few times you'll get *****. then, if you have enough skill/are smart one of two things will happen:

1) you'll realize ICs are bad in FFAs and stick to G&W

or

2) you'll get better at keeping track of nana and actually pull some stuff off.


keep in mind, in 4 people matches (FFAs or doubles) CGs are pretty much useless.

Thanks for the advice, I will most likely stick to G&W, but I'll trot out the ICs now and again.

 

[HolyChef]

Hai guis. What do you do if an MK glides back and forth under Smashville. I'm serious. WTF.

 

[theeboredone]

Coming from an Ike main, what would be the best stages to take you guys for a CP? And what is your best CP usually?

I was thinking of taking IC players to RC or maybe even Mansion so I can't get killed vertically.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Well, I'm sure all you IC mains are sick of answering CG questions, but I have another couple to throw at you unfortunately. First off, I'm having some troubles with my second climber being too far away to continue my CG. For example, I'll Fthrow a couple times, but then if I want to Bthrow, by default my second climber is far away and my opponent will either break out by the time it takes him to get there, or the CG will just get messed up in general because when I try to bthrow, my second climber will be in an odd position. Second off, I'm totally clueless when it comes to smashing when grabbing, absolutely no idea how. Suggestions?

 

[sauc3]

Well, I'm sure all you IC mains are sick of answering CG questions, but I have another couple to throw at you unfortunately. First off, I'm having some troubles with my second climber being too far away to continue my CG. For example, I'll Fthrow a couple times, but then if I want to Bthrow, by default my second climber is far away and my opponent will either break out by the time it takes him to get there, or the CG will just get messed up in general because when I try to bthrow, my second climber will be in an odd position. Second off, I'm totally clueless when it comes to smashing when grabbing, absolutely no idea how. Suggestions?

To smash, ctick in the direction you want to charge, then hold Z to charge.
So to charge an upsmash, C-stick up, then soon after, hold z (on the direction pad)

As for the chain grabbing

You should only be fthrowing the heavy class, and when you run out of space people generally throw to a nana spike. If you really want to bthrow you're just gunna have to wait for nana to catch up, then learn the timing for all the characters (bthrowing bowser is much different than bthowing rob)

keep in mind that after the bthrow on a heavy character, nana may be far from popo, but you can buffer a dthrow with her while popo catches, to eliminate the chance of them escaping at that point.

Did this help, or did I misinterpret the question?

 

[sauc3]

Coming from an Ike main, what would be the best stages to take you guys for a CP? And what is your best CP usually?

I was thinking of taking IC players to RC or maybe even Mansion so I can't get killed vertically.

i hate brinstar and RC as ICs, but generally every ICs main has a mediocre mk in their back pocket, so if you're picking RC be prepared to be fighting an mk,

If you want them to stay ICs, but just have a little disadvantage, try japes (high ceiling makes it hard to recover and ics DIE in the water.

As for good counter picks for us, we almost always pick between BF, SV, and FD, so in a set of 3, with our current rules, we can guarantee than 2 of the matches are on those maps.
Some people think fd is the best, but against spammers and campers its annoying, and its impossible to make use of their up air, so i like battlefield the best as ICs.

 

[Prawn]

i hate brinstar and RC as ICs, but generally every ICs main has a mediocre mk in their back pocket,

Ain't it the truth

 

[sauc3]

Hai guis. What do you do if an MK glides back and forth under Smashville. I'm serious. WTF.

in tourney its illegal for them to go under the map twice without touching base on the main ground.

You can ask an official to watch for it.

In friendlies, find someone else to play, or spam ic blocks, eventually it will hit.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

sauc3, you answered my question before, no misinterpretation there. I've come up with more questions for you, though. When Bthrowing a character like marth, I seem to actually grab him 50% of the time and the other 50% of the time he'll just fly away and I'll miss. When popo is holding the character and you move in the _opposite_ direction with nana, she always jerks back and faces the same direction as popo. So if I'm facing right and throwing a marth back for example, sometimes nana will miss the throw as she turns the other way. I'm not really sure how to get around this, either, I just get lucky with it, but once the CG actually starts it's easy. Just to make sure I'm not doing it wrong, when I try to Bthrow I hit back and then kind of hold the stick in the corresponding direction to make nana stay facing that way and immediately hit Z. Confusing question, I know. @_@

 

[sauc3]

sauc3, you answered my question before, no misinterpretation there. I've come up with more questions for you, though. When Bthrowing a character like marth, I seem to actually grab him 50% of the time and the other 50% of the time he'll just fly away and I'll miss. When popo is holding the character and you move in the _opposite_ direction with nana, she always jerks back and faces the same direction as popo. So if I'm facing right and throwing a marth back for example, sometimes nana will miss the throw as she turns the other way. I'm not really sure how to get around this, either, I just get lucky with it, but once the CG actually starts it's easy. Just to make sure I'm not doing it wrong, when I try to Bthrow I hit back and then kind of hold the stick in the corresponding direction to make nana stay facing that way and immediately hit Z. Confusing question, I know. @_@

ok with this type of chain grabbing, you're actually pivot grabbing, so you don't need to hold the direction, I would recommend letting go of the the direction after you hit grab.

Just smash the stick in the opposite direction, and then hit grab, almost simultaneously.
With mk and kirby and GaW, it is pretty much at the same time (hitting grab and slamming back), with marth its slightly (AND I MEAN SLIGHTLY) later that you hit grab after smashing the opposite direction (when i say smashing, i mean the direction alone)

if this isn't how you have been doing it, just try it (give it the benefit of the doubt)
Go into practice with mk or marth
grab with popo
wait for nana's grab animation to stop (this is where some problems occured with me, because once i started cging i was fine, but i seemed to mess up alot on the first throw)
slam opposite direction with direction stick, "then" hit grab
as for the timing of "then", start with hitting them at the same time, if it doesnt regrab, try again, only this time change the timing so that the grab barely follows the smashing of the direction (just a little bit, like milliseconds).

heres a video example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvmbFdHcRz8#t=0m50s

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

Quick question, where the hell is the sweetspot for the spike when you have one ice climber/ is it possible ? It baffles me, also where is the sweet spot when there is two climbers too? After the flash animation?

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

I've wondered that too but I do know this:

Whenever I F throw to f throw cg and do the spike at the end it ALWAYS hits when I'm throwing with Popo and letting Nana spike. Just SH fair with her when Popo is throwing them.

And you don't need two ICs for Fair to spike.

Where the exact sweetspot is.... I'd like to know that as well.