KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttttttt
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
General Ness discussion
- Thread starter thesage
- Start date
legion598
Smash Ace
ness is my new CP against ICs. **** is hilarious. I just blew some peoples minds at a tourney when I trapped nana in a prison of flames and slayed her with a baseball bat like all 4 stocks, its almost like ness can wobble nana lol
if the ics are smart they could deal with it pretty easy
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
shield pk fire
wd oos on pk fire
hit ness
unless ness is baller and edgecanceled it in which case the only appropriate response is, "whoa that was **** imma add that to my ness combo video".
wd oos on pk fire
hit ness
unless ness is baller and edgecanceled it in which case the only appropriate response is, "whoa that was **** imma add that to my ness combo video".
legion598
Smash Ace
for them to shield it they have to expect it or not be doing anything punishable ever. which is possible kind of but that should at least keep them afraid of u
pretty sure popo can make nana sdl out of it if he gets close enough. Also he can get close enough to make nana roll.
he could also just jump over and hit you if you try to stack on pk fires.
you know whats cooler, pk firing projectiles. The only one i know you can do is docs pills. Which is mad hard to time correctly. But if you do get it off, it stops him from approaching (if thats what his plan was with the pill) and it also stops you from getting hit by more pills.
i wonder if you can pk fire sheiks needles (grounded and other wise)
he could also just jump over and hit you if you try to stack on pk fires.
you know whats cooler, pk firing projectiles. The only one i know you can do is docs pills. Which is mad hard to time correctly. But if you do get it off, it stops him from approaching (if thats what his plan was with the pill) and it also stops you from getting hit by more pills.
i wonder if you can pk fire sheiks needles (grounded and other wise)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
i'm not sure they have to expect it considering how slow it is and the whole "PK FIRE!" that gives away what you're doing
ics tend to play very non-committal games anyway so i don't think that would be an issue for them
legion598
Smash Ace
well the fear of PK fire at least keeps them from blizzard, and ice blocks for that matter. It stops them in there tracks and no, im quite certain Popo cant get nana out, Ive played quite a few ICs and they all say they cant get her out. As for other ways of dealing with it, being smart with ness can also keep the fire going just use the fire to stay away from popo. Overall id say its a very useful method of dealing with the MU. not as good without plats tho obviously
yes its true they can play safe but one slip up and bam PK fire prison, kind of like wobbling really
I have a question tho. Is there any other stage than green greens with 12 or more objects in them? I was dissapointed to find that brinstars pods are all apparently the same pod so u cant renew thunder jackets with them
wishing green greens was legal
im gonna check on PK firing needles in the ground, im assuming u can. I also like setting marths sword on fire
yes its true they can play safe but one slip up and bam PK fire prison, kind of like wobbling really
I have a question tho. Is there any other stage than green greens with 12 or more objects in them? I was dissapointed to find that brinstars pods are all apparently the same pod so u cant renew thunder jackets with them
wishing green greens was legalim gonna check on PK firing needles in the ground, im assuming u can. I also like setting marths sword on fire
bahamutz69
Smash Journeyman
anyone think edge canceling pk fire is legit in a match?
or like where would it be useful?
im thinking dthrow in the middle of battlefield
then djc pkfire and hopefilly lc it
or like where would it be useful?
im thinking dthrow in the middle of battlefield
then djc pkfire and hopefilly lc it
What?
How would that work? Whwere would you lc in the middle of the stage?
anyways, I figured out a way to almost consistently edge cancel pk fire. I showed it to mofo and toasty and they both thought it was was sick.
It's pretty hard to do though.
You basically have to fall off one side of a platform, double jump in the opposite direction and time your pk fire so it edge cancels on the other side of the platform. It only works on certain platforms though. (All the platforms on pokemon stadium and yoshis story?. They both require different timing though because they length of the platform differ. I think you can also use my method on fod but not on battlefield because the platforms are way too long.
Thats the only way I've seen to use it while also not messing up nesses movement. You basically just waveland/run off a platform and you have a potential pk fire set up with almost no lag after the fact.
It's really hard to master though. And i'm not sure how useful it is. If you miss the pk fire its not tht big of a deal since you have no lag. However if they predict that you're going for it they can just attack you during the pk fire animation.
I've started some pretty sick combos with it though. Like pk fire edge cancel -> to dj fair (while theyre stuck in the fire) -> anything
How would that work? Whwere would you lc in the middle of the stage?
anyways, I figured out a way to almost consistently edge cancel pk fire. I showed it to mofo and toasty and they both thought it was was sick.
It's pretty hard to do though.
You basically have to fall off one side of a platform, double jump in the opposite direction and time your pk fire so it edge cancels on the other side of the platform. It only works on certain platforms though. (All the platforms on pokemon stadium and yoshis story?. They both require different timing though because they length of the platform differ. I think you can also use my method on fod but not on battlefield because the platforms are way too long.
Thats the only way I've seen to use it while also not messing up nesses movement. You basically just waveland/run off a platform and you have a potential pk fire set up with almost no lag after the fact.
It's really hard to master though. And i'm not sure how useful it is. If you miss the pk fire its not tht big of a deal since you have no lag. However if they predict that you're going for it they can just attack you during the pk fire animation.
I've started some pretty sick combos with it though. Like pk fire edge cancel -> to dj fair (while theyre stuck in the fire) -> anything
OMG just played melee again, and my god is ness bad(in comparison to brawl), i tried grabbing, it fails so bad. DJC however how i missed it, it gives much more variety in using his aerials. Probably going to play melee more now cause thecampy nature of brawl is getting kind of old.
good **** homie
bahamutz69
Smash Journeyman
i meant to use either of the two platforms on bf to lc it
thats kinda what i was doing but the plats on bf are too long
so i was just full hopping through the platform, closer to the edge then doing the same DJ in the opposite direction thing
i got it a fair amount of times but its for sure going to take some time to master
all in the name of being gimmicky as ****
thats kinda what i was doing but the plats on bf are too long
so i was just full hopping through the platform, closer to the edge then doing the same DJ in the opposite direction thing
i got it a fair amount of times but its for sure going to take some time to master
all in the name of being gimmicky as ****
legion598
Smash Ace
its actually mildly useful on PS. Ive been wavelanding into the method uve described and its fairly decent as long as u space it well enough and it should give you enough time to do a lot of things. u might even be able to PK fire plat cancel into another PK fire xD. If u want to do something real flashy wave land DJC PK fire cancel> DJC PK fire cancel on the other side of the plat and just do it as many times as u can
also realized this is technically a cancel cancel (DJC + plat cancel)
also realized this is technically a cancel cancel (DJC + plat cancel)
thesage
Smash Hero
You can shield pk fire while being burned by the pillar. =(
thesage
Smash Hero
Dair beats her cc but she easily nairs you out of that. She cc's a lot of things...
After like 80% you can juggle her with pkt for a lot of damage. It's lolzy.
After like 80% you can juggle her with pkt for a lot of damage. It's lolzy.
thesage
Smash Hero
no it's crouch cancel....
This ain't pokemon.
This ain't pokemon.
GroovyGreenHat
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 54
Besides, Ness can't afford to lower his defenses.
lol at pokereferences
someone advance ness's metagame
someone advance ness's metagame
otg
Smash Master
it's not possible.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Advancing Ness's Metagame = Discovering SYYG
lmao so true
thesage
Smash Hero
Advancing Ness' metagame = using yyg as often as mofo.
I think one of ness' problems is dealing with grounded approaches... He has no spacing move that counters people that are grounded at low percents and no way to really rack up damage at lower percents outside of grab combos and his range is unfortunately not that great.
He's pretty good at dealing with people that approach in the air though. U-tilt/fair/nair cover those nicely.
He has a good shield, but his bad u-smash and up-b make it so he can't really take advantage of it... His fastest options oos all can be cc'd.
I think one of ness' problems is dealing with grounded approaches... He has no spacing move that counters people that are grounded at low percents and no way to really rack up damage at lower percents outside of grab combos and his range is unfortunately not that great.
He's pretty good at dealing with people that approach in the air though. U-tilt/fair/nair cover those nicely.
He has a good shield, but his bad u-smash and up-b make it so he can't really take advantage of it... His fastest options oos all can be cc'd.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
D-tilt is viable at low percents. CCing doesn't really get around it. Also, Ness' out of shield game is fine since he has a great wavedash.
AC'ed dair and spaced fairs also **** CCers.
AC'ed dair and spaced fairs also **** CCers.
thesage
Smash Hero
Spaced fair does like barely any damage though and many people of d-smashes or d-tilts that can outrange spaced fair and punish it.
D-tilt isn't really viable at low percents if they predict the mixup. A lot of people are caught off guard by it which is why I used it, but try using it against a shiek who knows to just wait til' it ends to grab you or a peach that just spams cc-d-smash, or a... well you see where I'm going here...
D-tilt isn't really viable at low percents if they predict the mixup. A lot of people are caught off guard by it which is why I used it, but try using it against a shiek who knows to just wait til' it ends to grab you or a peach that just spams cc-d-smash, or a... well you see where I'm going here...
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Yea I don't know what Ness can do against Sheik or Peach lol.
thesage
Smash Hero
Ness has a handful of combos against Peach actually and he forces her to stay on the ground thanks to his fair. Too bad he loses to turnip camping... Dair is pretty useful...
He has combos on shiek too, but he has no defense game on her that I can think of... I have a really hard time getting to her to land combos...
He has combos on shiek too, but he has no defense game on her that I can think of... I have a really hard time getting to her to land combos...
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
So.... we need to Yoyo Glitch more...?
It's so annoying to pull off in a match though -_-
It's so annoying to pull off in a match though -_-
lol no grim
but if not, than this is clearly wrong
idk if yu were jokin along with the rest of us or not
but if not, than this is clearly wrong
thesage
Smash Hero
I was semi-joking.
I would like to be able to pull it off in friendlies more but u-smash just sucks too much in general. I think we could advance by being extremely lame and camping with perfectly space fairs that only do 3 damage for 8 minutes straight and see where that goes...
But that's lame and boring and not why I play Ness. That's why I play Peach...
I would like to be able to pull it off in friendlies more but u-smash just sucks too much in general. I think we could advance by being extremely lame and camping with perfectly space fairs that only do 3 damage for 8 minutes straight and see where that goes...
But that's lame and boring and not why I play Ness. That's why I play Peach...
legion598
Smash Ace
I think the only way of advancing ness is to incorporate more reads like Fsmashing after well spaced Fair when u KNOW they will CC>something not as big as a baseball bat, Fairing jumps, Bairing approaches, etc.. Really dont think theres a solution to marth. as for shiek u have to not get grabbed and consistently combo her, if your fighting anyone but marth I think theres a chance of victory just have to be consistent and patient .
thesage
Smash Hero
I think f-smash has too much startup lag for that.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I used to main Ness back when I played Melee casually, but kind of stopped playing before I got very good with any of the ATs. I'm trying to pick him back up, but I am definitely having trouble beating certain things.
What are the frame stats on DJCFFL fairs + random follow ups like grab or dtilt? Can I reliably follow up with a move after landing? I feel like Ness would be much more of a threat if he could break down defensive characters more. The person I play most of the time uses Marth and Samus, and when he is actually trying to hit me I tear him apart, but his Marth can usually just shield everything I do and grab me out of my fairs, and if I just try and go for a grab, well, obviously he outranges me grab vs. grab so same result. I end up losing because he shield grabbed me every time I approached. I have started just SH fairing through his shield so he misses the shield grab, so maybe I just need to work off of that. Against Samus, I have started to learn to deal with CC whoring by conditioning a SHed fair then using a FHed dair or sometimes when I time the fair weird I am able to hit Samus with a FHed fair following up with a dair or jump past with DJCed bair from behind.
Also, how exactly do you ledge cancel PK Fire? I was trying to do it before by just PK Firing and then sliding off a ledge; do you have to DJC or something?
Also also, this glitch looks awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfyHaOjxXOY
What are the frame stats on DJCFFL fairs + random follow ups like grab or dtilt? Can I reliably follow up with a move after landing? I feel like Ness would be much more of a threat if he could break down defensive characters more. The person I play most of the time uses Marth and Samus, and when he is actually trying to hit me I tear him apart, but his Marth can usually just shield everything I do and grab me out of my fairs, and if I just try and go for a grab, well, obviously he outranges me grab vs. grab so same result. I end up losing because he shield grabbed me every time I approached. I have started just SH fairing through his shield so he misses the shield grab, so maybe I just need to work off of that. Against Samus, I have started to learn to deal with CC whoring by conditioning a SHed fair then using a FHed dair or sometimes when I time the fair weird I am able to hit Samus with a FHed fair following up with a dair or jump past with DJCed bair from behind.
Also, how exactly do you ledge cancel PK Fire? I was trying to do it before by just PK Firing and then sliding off a ledge; do you have to DJC or something?
Also also, this glitch looks awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfyHaOjxXOY
thesage
Smash Hero
Djc bair to grab is the most satisfying combo ever.
Djc fair to d-tilt works, and djc fair to grab works if they don't cc I think. You have to space it properly as well. A perfectly spaced fair probably ends with the opponent too far away for Ness to grab them in time.
Djc fair to d-tilt works, and djc fair to grab works if they don't cc I think. You have to space it properly as well. A perfectly spaced fair probably ends with the opponent too far away for Ness to grab them in time.
djc fair to grab works alot actually becuz for some reason people just want to sheild after. (which is odd to me cuz i generally expect good players to either cc it or spotdodge, so i generally over predict and go for fsmash but they just sheild it) Especially at high percent.
but of course when yu play someone good the only way itll work without being cced is if you catch them in the air or sometimes when theyre dashing away
but of course when yu play someone good the only way itll work without being cced is if you catch them in the air or sometimes when theyre dashing away
Bones0
Smash Legend
Would you recommend dashing and jump cancelling a grab after landing, or can you actually just grab right after landing out of the fair?
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I wave-dash forward to grab.
you generally have to dash cuz ness grab range sucks.
hmm, these are the kind of questions ppl shouldn't really be askin tho, if you go play and figure it out yourself then yull be much better off. If i say something, yur gonna think oh i shud always dash forward and jc grab after this djc fair when that kind of thinking will prolly get you *****. if you learn stuff like that on your own, then you'll learn better when its a good idea to do it and when you should do other things like bat, sh dair, roll away, etc.
like if yu tried djc fair to standing grab once or twice and it didnt hit yud immediately know that it might be better to dash before yu jc grab. Learning that way is much better and you have to get used to learning dynamically like that or else you wont be able to adapt or wont understand why its good to do certain things.
so go out and experiment try new **** and practice tech skill.
idk why i went on this rant like i know how to play this game or anything lol.
@grim: lmao idk who ur hitting with that. they must really like sitting in their sheild. wd grab is so much slower. but i mean if its working for you then word.
hmm, these are the kind of questions ppl shouldn't really be askin tho, if you go play and figure it out yourself then yull be much better off. If i say something, yur gonna think oh i shud always dash forward and jc grab after this djc fair when that kind of thinking will prolly get you *****. if you learn stuff like that on your own, then you'll learn better when its a good idea to do it and when you should do other things like bat, sh dair, roll away, etc.
like if yu tried djc fair to standing grab once or twice and it didnt hit yud immediately know that it might be better to dash before yu jc grab. Learning that way is much better and you have to get used to learning dynamically like that or else you wont be able to adapt or wont understand why its good to do certain things.
so go out and experiment try new **** and practice tech skill.
idk why i went on this rant like i know how to play this game or anything lol.
@grim: lmao idk who ur hitting with that. they must really like sitting in their sheild. wd grab is so much slower. but i mean if its working for you then word.