General Ness discussion

[Massive]

I've played Project Melee on one of strongbad's setups at massivesmash before, Ness is pretty excellent.
As it stands though, Gannondorf is the most broken char in project Melee.

The option of DJCing or not adds a gigantic amount to his metagame and removes the issue of recovery from Ness's list of reasons why he sucks. You can literally recover and fair or nair at the same time, you're basically controlling a flying hitbox.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I havent been reading anything on P:M any time recently, but if its supposed to be making something like a more balanced version of Melee then I would very much like to take the minimalist approach to changing characters and say things like:

-double Ness' grab range
-reduce the cooldown on PKT2

and change nothing else.

 

[ChivalRuse]

They could buff the range on all of Ness' aerials, but that's just me.

 

[thesage]

That's sounds like too much weird **** going on. I'd just combine 64 Ness with melee ness and call it a day. =/

Plus swing jumping is pretty important.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I've decided I will use more F-smash in the future with Ness.

 

[Jono]

Fsmash definitely not used enough

by me as well

 

[Deleted member]

what makes Ness so bad?

no range
no grab range
no reliable throw into a kill move at mid-high% (sheik, fox, falcon, etc)
no recovery
bad weight (CGs, not floaty enough to escape combos, not fast enough to force reflexive play)
no broken spammable moves (helps a LOT more than it should)

it's a long list but those are the major ones. on the other hand, ness has

excellent DD
excellent WD
very usable combos
respectable edge guards

 

[ChivalRuse]

F-smash is good if you know when to use it.

 

[Little England]

Why does Ness's dsmash and upsmash only charge sometimes? Also, what makes Ness charge the dsmash at different heights? Why do I get the YYG off of 2 hits of the upsmash, or after he's flashed yellow multiple times? How should I use PK fire?

/endquestionbarrage

 

[#HBC | Mac]

if the yoyo is being charged on unlevel ground, it wont charge up.

 

[Jono]

I use dsmash and PK fire only when they're not expected. wd back dsmash shenanigans

 

[toasty]

thanks for the input, peoples

 

[Uffe]

Uffe..I admire the spirit...I do. But sadly, you said so much that made my head explode that...well, lemme just single one part out (I'm not trying to be mean, it's just clear that you're not playing against very good players)

there are infinitely worse things Fox can do to you in this situation than dtilt...like usmash. But that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as what was incorrect in your post.

Again, I'm not trying to be an ***..you should see my first posts on the Ness boards from back in the day. I wrote a 3 paragraph post that broke down the psychology behind and situational nature of being able to charge a dsmash, hit a running Fox with the front part, into an fsmash for a kill.

>_>

I figured. Maybe I'm just a bad player. I can do techniques, but I can still lose to who've played the game long enough that don't even use techniques. :/ I should probably just pick up someone else.

 

[Spekkio Master of War]

they need to make it so that ness can tech his own recovery.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't main 26 characters^_^

Oh Uffe can you drive yet?

 

[GroovyGreenHat]

Which of Fox and Falco's aerials out-prioritize ftilt and uptilt? I suppose I could test this myself, but I figured I'd ask first.

Sigh... if only Fox couldn't shine combo Ness for days on end.

Simna, you going to that San Jose tourney next weekend?

 

[Uffe]

Who here is a current Ness main and does at least decent in tournaments? I like watching Simna's videos, but are there any newer ones? I need to figure out how to properly use Ness in the year 2011.

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't main 26 characters^_^

Oh Uffe can you drive yet?

If I could, I probably wouldn't be able to go far enough to play at your house or anything like that. I don't have a car. :D The farthest I've ever gone around San Jose was Mountain View, and that was a long trip with a friend.

Which of Fox and Falco's aerials out-prioritize ftilt and uptilt? I suppose I could test this myself, but I figured I'd ask first.

Sigh... if only Fox couldn't shine combo Ness for days on end.

Simna, you going to that San Jose tourney next weekend?

San Jose? Tournament? When and where, other than just next week and it being in San Jose?

 

[Spekkio Master of War]

newest vids I can think of is mofo vs. hax and mofo vs. mango. Hes pretty damn good. Ive been trying to figure this out myself and im gonna find out next tourney I go to how well it works and im probly gonna have some good vids of non-tourney play up next week.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

If its on the weekend then I'm not gonna be there.


Oh and Uffe are you sure? I only live like an hour away from you.

 

[toasty]

lolllllllllllllllllllllll
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12350675&postcount=291

it just made me laugh, is all

 

[ChivalRuse]

Fail post is fail.

 

[Sinji]

is ness'es dtilt a good reset?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

y es

 

[Uffe]

If its on the weekend then I'm not gonna be there.


Oh and Uffe are you sure? I only live like an hour away from you.

Um, do you think you can PM me your location again? I'd really like to meet you in person, 'cause, you know, you're cool like that. Your brother, too. I'll see what I can do.

 

[KirbyKaze]

is ness'es dtilt a good reset?

d-tilt them like 5 times then bat them

Uffe will get simna training and become the new ness

 

[Uffe]

d-tilt them like 5 times then bat them

Uffe will get simna training and become the new ness

It'd be awesome if that really happens. I'd be forever in his debt. *bows to Simna ibn Sind's mightyNess*

 

[ChivalRuse]

It's too bad Ness can't infinite d-tilt reset on Pokemon Stadium. His legs are too short, so he gets pushed back out of range.

Wait, do infinite resets even work? Doesn't the getup animation get forced eventually/you can SDI up?

 

[Uffe]

It's too bad Ness can't infinite d-tilt reset on Pokemon Stadium. His legs are too short, so he gets pushed back out of range.

Wait, do infinite resets even work? Doesn't the getup animation get forced eventually/you can SDI up?

You probably can't infinite anybody, but you could try to d-tilt lock your opponet when the stage turns to the fire field. If you can manage to get your opponent under the tree branch on the left side of the stage, then there might be a possibility. If there is a tree above your opponent, they might not be able to SDI upward and out. Or you could try to grab them, toss them into the corner of the tree, and if they get up or tech, then you can just chase them and continue the process. I'm not sure if it'll work, but you should probably try it.

 

[thesage]

The reason Ness cannot infinite d-tilt somebody against most walls is that he gets pushed back when he does d-tilt. The only place where you can is on the tree on Pokemon Stadium with your back to a wall and the opponent next to the other wall.

There's a video of it somewhere, but I'm too lazy to find.

Ness can d-tilt lock people for a really long time if they're at lower percents, at higher percents the d-tilt sends them further away so he can only get in a couple of hits. It's kinda like a jab lock. It's hard to set up though.

 

[Roche_CL]

Bad things about Ness:
No grab range
Too much lag after some moves, like PKT, Fsmash, Ftilt, Utilt, wich are usefull but too punishable.
(*PKT in SSB64 had almost no lag if you directed it downwards and landed in the platform, and had a loooot more distance travel)
No Invencibility for PKT!!!! D:!
Useless D and Usmash
Dash attack is cool, but should be less CCable.


Side Note:
does anybody else find difficult to do the PKT recovery stuff from the PKT guide from Simna? i mean, i've been playing ness like for years, and the only recovery i find is like airdodging into the stage or just PKT upwards and die anyway. It looks so easy in the guide, but so hard to pull in a match xO

*goes into training mode*

 

[thesage]

I can wall ride on FD, but that's it. I can't wall ride on BF.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Wall riding on BF is so epic. But I can't do it consistently yet.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

bf wall riding almost never comes up in a real match. I never find myself in a position on BF where i'm like, wall ridings the only way to get back/wall riding wud be a good mix up.

It does have some utility on FD tho, which is cool cuz FD is much easier.

wall riding on YS is prolly the most useful/easy.


wall riding beats people edgehogging you sometimes, depending on how you spaced it. It's because of the animation of ness going pass the ledge in the air lasts long enough (depending on spacing) where you can regrab after someone ledgerolls. Sometimes tho if you go too far past, you won't be able to grab the ledge.

 

[Sinji]

I did this glitch with ness whier the side of the PKT would tounch the oppenent then ness would be surronded in blue static like he's a supersaiyn 2. It doesn't work anymore but i trying to discover how it worked.

 

[Jono]

I did this glitch with ness whier the side of the PKT would tounch the oppenent then ness would be surronded in blue static like he's a supersaiyn 2. It doesn't work anymore but i trying to discover how it worked.

easiest way is floorblast

 

[Massive]

Wallriding is awesome, but I've found that most times you're in a position that PK thunder is required to recover from you're pretty much screwed.

 

[Sinji]

Wallriding is really gud on FD. Thats probably why i use the stage as a counterpick.

 

[Rockstar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ-07M8LnI4 One of my old tournament matches. Criticize if necessary

 

[Jono]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ-07M8LnI4 One of my old tournament matches. Criticize if necessary

you keep asking advice here on your brawl

what the hell

 

[Rockstar]

Woah. My bad. I forgot this was melee. Noone here likes brawl? Its easier to win in that game