Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[Gimmick]

I love it when people say that Banjo is Microsofts only tie to Nintendo.

So much hate...
​

Also, I hope people realize that Cloud is in the game to represent Final Fantasy as a whole. Not just seven. Plus why wouldn't they include Cloud? He's arguably is the franchises most popular character. He's a far better option than characters such as Black Mage, Chocobo, and on (though I would've like to see Terra).

Also, now it just seems like people are using some of the silliest arguments...

Let me use the same amount of effort that you used here to refute your logic:

Banjo > FF because what are you even talking about? Sales, iconic relevance, game quality? I rank Banjo higher because it has more honey in it which is, if we're allowing this much subjectivity, all I need to prove.

And, you don't think gamers that owned N64 aren't exactly the same kind that would own Wii Us?

Literally what? Did you seriously just compare the Banjo franchise to Final Fantasy as a whole? My god...

IMO, there's a lot of people who over exaggerate Bomberman & Rayman's 'icon' status. Characters like Banjo-Kazooie & Crono are above them. Someone like Cloud or Ryu is even higher. Legacy & sales alone paint a clear picture.

... Boy that was easy

Except Rayman and Bomberman are literally more iconic than them. Plus that's like me editing his post to say that Pichu and a random NPC are more notable. It doesn't actually prove anything.

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

You have to admit Banjo Kazooie really isn't that big of a character unless your a Nintendo fan. They haven't made much of a splash in recent years. Why are you even comparing them to Mega-Man and Final Fantasy for that matter. Those franchises came first before the bird and the bear was ever even created. Final Fantasy and Mega-Man has been around for generations. Like seriously have some respect towards franchises that actually have impacted the industry, I don't care if you prefer Banjo over them and this coming from a Banjo Kazooie fan, they only helped make the N64 and that's really about it.

 

[Halfhead]

Literally what? Did you seriously just compare the Banjo franchise to Final Fantasy as a whole? My god...​

You read the part where I said it's because Banjo-Kazooie has more honey in it, right? I was obviously being facetious.

I don't actually think Banjo>FF (because, like I pointed out, I really don't know what ">" even means here), I was just pointing out that it's useless to put a greater than sign in between two franchises and expect it to prove your point.

 

[Wolfie557]

I am only confident in Inklings happening. Everything has gotten harder and harder to predict these days.

How exciting. : D

 

[Wiley]

I'm all for Cloud joining. But to respond to this,
"He's a far better option than characters such as Black Mage, Chocobo, and on (though I would've like to see Terra)."
I think Black Mage is a stronger feel to Nintendo personally. But for marketing, mass appeal, and Cloud's overall many strengths as a character regardless... he's the obvious pick if you're going FF, but I wouldn't say better for the actual game. We could use more true mages. I'll let a more courageous person defend Chocobo, I'd play him but I'd agree Cloud was clearly a better option there. I'm more than happy he's here though, it opened gates and he's kind of a beast... speaking of beasts, I will die if we actually do get Wolf. He was the only thing remotely good in my memories from Brawl vs my time with 64/Melee/Sm4sh.
Free Wolf

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Except Rayman and Bomberman are literally more iconic than them. Plus that's like me editing his post to say that Pichu and a random NPC are more notable. It doesn't actually prove anything.

No, they aren't. Rayman and Bomberman are not anymore iconic than Banjo-Kazooie, Crono, Lara Croft, Scorpion and plenty other nineties icons. They just aren't more iconic than any other third party character. Rayman is a series with so much shovelware it's not funny. Banjo-Kazooie has sold just as much as Bomberman with far less games, and it's best selling game has sold more than any game Rayman has appeared in. In fact, getting rid of all the shovelware titles in Raymans history, Banjo-Kazooie has sold just as much as Raymans main games.

 

[777Laser]

The same people who say Banjo-Kazooie is a minor character are the same people who think Shovel Knight, Shantae and other minor indie characters have a chance. These people say Banjo-Kazooie is an out of date character, but that's exactly what Shovel Knight and Shantae are going to be in a few years. Oh wait, Shantae was already an outdated character, until her minor new indie game released, in which case she will revert back to being obscure in two years

But I genuinely don't have any history with any of those characters that you'd mention nor do i want to see them in Smash. Plus I don't like them. specially, Shantae. I will gladly take Banjo or Shovel over her.

I will definitely say Banjo is a lot more known than Indies. His inclusion wouldn't be random, but I just feel it's unlikely to happen because he isn't as popular as Cloud or Ryu in regard to third party characters

 

[Dinoman96]

I mentioned this before but Rayman is really obscure over in Japan. Hardly any of his games were released there and none of them sold well.

At least Banjo-Kazooie sold around 400,000 over there, so that's something.

 

[777Laser]

I mentioned this before but Rayman is really obscure over in Japan. Hardly any of his games were released there and none of them sold well.

At least Banjo-Kazooie sold around 400,000 over there, so that's something.

Good stat but sells don't equate to the size of a fanbase every time. It is more circumstantial to say just that. If the demand for Rayman is high there, I think that's what they'll put into consideration more than sells and success

 

[Dinoman96]

Well, if Rayman hardly exists over there then there can hardly be any demand for him now, can there.

What's important to note is that each third party in Smash is a world class icon with fame and recognizability across the globe. Rayman is only kinda-sort-of-not-really famous in the US, where characters like Cloud are celebrated worldwide.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You have to admit Banjo Kazooie really isn't that big of a character unless your a Nintendo fan.

Unless you are a Nintendo fan?

Isn't that the point of Smash Bros. though? Or has Sakurai announched Smash Bros. for XBox One and Playstation 4 now all of a sudden?

Also, being big on the N64 is more of a deal than you'd think. In case we are forgetting this all, Smash Bros. started on the N64. Meaning, a lot of N64 fans are die-hard Smash Bros. fans to. And there's this obvious fact to consider that Banjo-Kazooie was easily one of the most requested characters for Melee.

Btw, Rare-Replay for Wii U has been hinted at. Yes, Minecraft isn't the only Microsoft-owned thing coming to Wii U. Looking forward to it! Will definitely have to buy a Wii U for this.

 

[Gimmick]

No, they aren't. Rayman and Bomberman are not anymore iconic than Banjo-Kazooie, Crono, Lara Croft, Scorpion and plenty other nineties icons. They just aren't more iconic than any other third party character. Rayman is a series with so much shovelware it's not funny. Banjo-Kazooie has sold just as much as Bomberman with far less games, and it's best selling game has sold more than any game Rayman has appeared in. In fact, getting rid of all the shovelware titles in Raymans history, Banjo-Kazooie has sold just as much as Raymans main games.

I'm pretty sure more people know who Rayman and Bomberman are. More so then Banjo and Kazooie at least. Also, relevance is something that definitely matters. I'm pretty sure more people know who Rayman and Bomber Man are due to their more recent games essentially reviving the characters (at least enough for Rayman to get multiple trophies in smash). Though I'm honestly not going to bother defending these two as I have very little affiliation with them. However, Scorpion and Lara Croft shouldn't be compared to any of those characters in terms of status.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Who is even saying 3rd party characters are by definition more likely than Nintendo-owned characters?

 

[Gimmick]

Who is even saying 3rd party characters are by definition more likely than Nintendo-owned characters?

Whoever said that?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Whoever said that?

3rd party characters are far more discussed than anything Nintendo-owned ever since Cloud. Everyone also seems so 100% certain that we'll get even another 3rd party character on Tuesday. I just wanted to know why.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Because Cloud literally broke speculation's limits for the particularly hopeful.

We wouldn't be discussing third parties this hard had it been, say, Snake or some first party newcomer that had been revealed on November 12th.

 

[Gimmick]

Plus third-parties tend to be much more interesting than characters that Nintendo could honestly add any time they wanted.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Plus third-parties tend to be much more interesting than characters that Nintendo could honestly add any time they wanted.

If your opinion is a fact, I'll challenge it with my factual opinion that your claim is absolute bull****. Mega Man didn't hype me. Pac Man didn't hype me. Ryu didn't hype me. Sonic didn't hype me. Snake didn't hype me. And Cloud didn't hype me. I'll continue to throw factual opinons in stating that Banjo-Kazooie is the most hype 3rd party addition Sakurai could ever possibly add. But my factual opinion remains that King K.Rool would by far be the most interessting and hype character addition possible for DLC. Why? It's my factual opinion, and therefore, I'm right. Absolutely, and always.

 

[777Laser]

Well, if Rayman hardly exists over there then there can hardly be any demand for him now, can there.

What's important to note is that each third party in Smash is a world class icon with fame and recognizability across the globe. Rayman is only kinda-sort-of-not-really famous in the US, where characters like Cloud are celebrated worldwide.

Not evident, more circumstantial. Sells and release don't calculate in exports of rayman games, torrents, merchandise....

Actually, most of the Rayman games that weren't released in that region were bought from Japan they account for 75% of the sells according to multiple websites which I am not obligated to show.

 

[Gimmick]

If your opinion is a fact, I'll challenge it with my factual opinion that your claim is absolute bull****. Mega Man didn't hype me. Pac Man didn't hype me. Ryu didn't hype me. Sonic didn't hype me. Snake didn't hype me. And Cloud didn't hype me. I'll continue to throw factual opinons in stating that Banjo-Kazooie is the most hype 3rd party addition Sakurai could ever possibly add. But my factual opinion remains that King K.Rool would by far be the most interessting and hype character addition possible for DLC. Why? It's my factual opinion, and therefore, I'm right. Absolutely, and always.

Sorry bruh. I didn't realize my post was going to make you become so aggressive. I'll remember to put, "IMO' next time...

But seriously, calm down. You're taking this way to seriously. Like you said... It's just my opinion. No need to swear and whatnot.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

You know what, we are going to squash Bomberman and Rayman once and for all. Let’s look at our almighty sales to determine which franchise is most iconic, since impact usually determines what makes an icon.

According to Wikipedia & VGChartz, these are the debut dates, total number of games and the total lifetime sales for each franchise:

Bomberman / 1983/ 10 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises#At_least_5_million_copies

Rayman / 1995 / 20-25 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

Banjo-Kazooie / 1998 / 7 Million

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=kazooie

Comparing these numbers at face value reveals that Rayman is much more popular than the other two and that Banjo Kazooie is at least as popular as Bomberman, right? No

List of Bomberman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bomberman_video_games

List of Rayman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

List of Banjo-Kazooie games:

I might as well just list them because there are only four; Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Grunty’s Revenge and Nut’s & Bolts.

Now, take a look at the massive amount of Rayman and Bomberman games that have been released over the years. Bomberman is just insane, but still, all it could manage is 10 million units? Hardly sets the charts on fire, if at all. Star Fox has sold more as a franchise. Plus, consider that Bomberman is attached to Konami and is more or less a dormant franchise at this point, sadly.

Rayman is even worse. Sure, as a franchise it has sold close to 25 million, but that’s including the Raving Rabbids series. That alone accounts for over 14 million of that total, and really isn’t associated with Rayman whatsoever, and in many cases became more popular than Rayman himself. Adjusting that series out, the mainline Rayman games have really only sold 11 million.

So is Banjo-Kazooie any less iconic than these series? No. Banjo-Kazooie has a similar lifetime sales number to Rayman and Bomberman with much fewer games. Banjo-Kazooie even has a spiritual successor in the works, and that game became the fastest funded game on KickStarter, which just goes to prove my point that Banjo-Kazooie is just as iconic as Rayman and Bomberman, if not for similar sales, then it is for being one of the only games to ever go toe-to-toe with Super Mario 64 during its heyday

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty sure more people know who Rayman and Bomberman are. More so then Banjo and Kazooie at least. Also, relevance is something that definitely matters. I'm pretty sure more people know who Rayman and Bomber Man are due to their more recent games essentially reviving the characters (at least enough for Rayman to get multiple trophies in smash). Though I'm honestly not going to bother defending these two as I have very little affiliation with them. However, Scorpion and Lara Croft shouldn't be compared to any of those characters in terms of status.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on everything you've said because you're clearly talking croc.

Have you even been reading the thread?

Your opinion =/= fact

Saying "I'm pretty sure" and then spitting out a bunch of incorrect opinions doesn't suddenly validate your argument.

 

[Polan]

I like to think of Banjo as an honorary Nintendo character. His design screams Nintendo, he was a big part of the N64 and he was (sort of) owned by Nintendo. He's owned by a different company but his roots are undoubtedly Nintendo. Yeah he's not iconic but who gives a ****? Nintendo fans like him and he was once an integral part of Nintendo. Shouldn't that be enough?

If your opinion is a fact, I'll challenge it with my factual opinion that your claim is absolute bull****. Mega Man didn't hype me. Pac Man didn't hype me. Ryu didn't hype me. Sonic didn't hype me. Snake didn't hype me. And Cloud didn't hype me. I'll continue to throw factual opinons in stating that Banjo-Kazooie is the most hype 3rd party addition Sakurai could ever possibly add. But my factual opinion remains that King K.Rool would by far be the most interessting and hype character addition possible for DLC. Why? It's my factual opinion, and therefore, I'm right. Absolutely, and always.

 

[Deleted member]

Not evident, more circumstantial. Sells and release don't calculate in exports of rayman games, torrents, merchandise....

Actually, most of the Rayman games that weren't released in that region were bought from Japan they account for 75% of the sells according to multiple websites which I am not obligated to show.

All of this. Everything you've said, also accounts for Banjo.

And with Banjo-Kazooie being one of the most pirated games for N64 emulators, I guess we should be counting those too.

 

[Amiiben]

It's sad people think banjo is as iconic as rayman

 

[Banjodorf]

You know what, we are going to squash Bomberman and Rayman once and for all. Let’s look at our almighty sales to determine which franchise is most iconic, since impact usually determines what makes an icon.

According to Wikipedia & VGChartz, these are the debut dates, total number of games and the total lifetime sales for each franchise:

Bomberman / 1983/ 10 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises#At_least_5_million_copies

Rayman / 1995 / 20-25 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

Banjo-Kazooie / 1998 / 7 Million

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=kazooie

Comparing these numbers at face value reveals that Rayman is much more popular than the other two and that Banjo Kazooie is at least as popular as Bomberman, right? No

List of Bomberman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bomberman_video_games

List of Rayman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

List of Banjo-Kazooie games:

I might as well just list them because there are only four; Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Grunty’s Revenge and Nut’s & Bolts.

Now, take a look at the massive amount of Rayman and Bomberman games that have been released over the years. Bomberman is just insane, but still, all it could manage is 10 million units? Hardly sets the charts on fire, if at all. Star Fox has sold more as a franchise. Plus, consider that Bomberman is attached to Konami and is more or less a dormant franchise at this point, sadly.

Rayman is even worse. Sure, as a franchise it has sold close to 25 million, but that’s including the Raving Rabbids series. That alone accounts for over 14 million of that total, and really isn’t associated with Rayman whatsoever, and in many cases became more popular than Rayman himself. Adjusting that series out, the mainline Rayman games have really only sold 11 million.

So is Banjo-Kazooie any less iconic than these series? No. Banjo-Kazooie has a similar lifetime sales number to Rayman and Bomberman with much fewer games. Banjo-Kazooie even has a spiritual successor in the works, and that game became the fastest funded game on KickStarter, which just goes to prove my point that Banjo-Kazooie is just as iconic as Rayman and Bomberman, if not for similar sales, then it is for being one of the only games to ever go toe-to-toe with Super Mario 64 during its heyday

...This honestly just makes me sad for Rayman.

 

[Gimmick]

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on everything you've said because you're clearly talking croc.

Have you even been reading the thread?

Your opinion =/= fact

Saying "I'm pretty sure" and then spitting out a bunch of incorrect opinions doesn't suddenly validate your argument.

Bruh...

You serious? I've read this entire thread and most of your points have been refuted. Not only that, but you make the most hypocritical post. When I say something it's just an opinion, but when you say something it's the word of god? There's literally nothing factual about what you just said. You basically just said, "My opinion>Your opinion." Plus saying, "pretty sure" implies that I'm not fully confident in what I'm saying. I still stand by what I said though, and that's the fact that Rayman and Bomber Man are much recognizable than Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[Deleted member]

It's sad people think banjo is as iconic as rayman

What's truly sad is that millennial kiddies genuinely believe that Rayman and Shovel Knight are more iconic than Banjo despite all the overwhelming evidence presented to them.

But I suppose we'll find out Tuesday.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

It's sad people think banjo is as iconic as rayman

It's sad that people think Rayman is any more iconic than any other third party character possible for Smash

...This honestly just makes me sad for Rayman.

It wasn't meant to downplay Rayman or Bomberman, it was to support the point that they are no more iconic or viable than Banjo-Kazooie. Those characters are more or less in the same league

 

[Deleted member]

Bruh...

You serious? I've read this entire thread and most of your points have been refuted. Not only that, but you make the most hypocritical post. When I say something it's just an opinion, but when you say something it's the word of god? There's literally nothing factual about what you just said. You basically just said, "My opinion>Your opinion." Plus saying, "pretty sure" implies that I'm not fully confident in what I'm saying. I still stand by what I said, and that's the fact that Rayman and Bomber Man are much recognizable than Banjo & Kazooie.

Nothing that's been stated has been refuted at all. Absolutely NOTHING.

I've literally had this debate over and over on here, and I've resigned to just not even bothering stating the facts anymore because people just shut their ears and strawman.

 

[Amiiben]

Except rayman is more iconic than banjo

 

[777Laser]

You know what, we are going to squash Bomberman and Rayman once and for all. Let’s look at our almighty sales to determine which franchise is most iconic, since impact usually determines what makes an icon.

According to Wikipedia & VGChartz, these are the debut dates, total number of games and the total lifetime sales for each franchise:

Bomberman / 1983/ 10 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises#At_least_5_million_copies

Rayman / 1995 / 20-25 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

Banjo-Kazooie / 1998 / 7 Million

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=kazooie

Comparing these numbers at face value reveals that Rayman is much more popular than the other two and that Banjo Kazooie is at least as popular as Bomberman, right? No

List of Bomberman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bomberman_video_games

List of Rayman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

List of Banjo-Kazooie games:

I might as well just list them because there are only four; Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Grunty’s Revenge and Nut’s & Bolts.

Now, take a look at the massive amount of Rayman and Bomberman games that have been released over the years. Bomberman is just insane, but still, all it could manage is 10 million units? Hardly sets the charts on fire, if at all. Star Fox has sold more as a franchise. Plus, consider that Bomberman is attached to Konami and is more or less a dormant franchise at this point, sadly.

Rayman is even worse. Sure, as a franchise it has sold close to 25 million, but that’s including the Raving Rabbids series. That alone accounts for over 14 million of that total, and really isn’t associated with Rayman whatsoever, and in many cases became more popular than Rayman himself. Adjusting that series out, the mainline Rayman games have really only sold 11 million.

So is Banjo-Kazooie any less iconic than these series? No. Banjo-Kazooie has a similar lifetime sales number to Rayman and Bomberman with much fewer games. Banjo-Kazooie even has a spiritual successor in the works, and that game became the fastest funded game on KickStarter, which just goes to prove my point that Banjo-Kazooie is just as iconic as Rayman and Bomberman, if not for similar sales, then it is for being one of the only games to ever go toe-to-toe with Super Mario 64 during its heyday

Despite Banjo Kazooie being popular, Rayman is still more successful. But in terms of popularity, compare the best selling individual games across both series to show where each peaked in popularity. Then subtract the numbers to get a sense of how much greater one is.

 

[777Laser]

All of this. Everything you've said, also accounts for Banjo.

And with Banjo-Kazooie being one of the most pirated games for N64 emulators, I guess we should be counting those too.

Why not? We are talking the amount of fans, not sales anyway.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Despite Banjo Kazooie being popular that, Rayman is still more successful. But in terms of popularity, compare the best selling individual game across both series to show where each peaked in popularity. Then subtract the numbers to get a sense of how much greater one is.

Banjo-Kazooie still wins with 3.85 million units sold, while Rayman has 3.05 million and Bomberman has only 1.04 million. The numbers were right in front of you with the links provided.

 

[Amiiben]

You know what, we are going to squash Bomberman and Rayman once and for all. Let’s look at our almighty sales to determine which franchise is most iconic, since impact usually determines what makes an icon.

According to Wikipedia & VGChartz, these are the debut dates, total number of games and the total lifetime sales for each franchise:

Bomberman / 1983/ 10 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises#At_least_5_million_copies

Rayman / 1995 / 20-25 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

Banjo-Kazooie / 1998 / 7 Million

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=kazooie

Comparing these numbers at face value reveals that Rayman is much more popular than the other two and that Banjo Kazooie is at least as popular as Bomberman, right? No

List of Bomberman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bomberman_video_games

List of Rayman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

List of Banjo-Kazooie games:

I might as well just list them because there are only four; Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Grunty’s Revenge and Nut’s & Bolts.

Now, take a look at the massive amount of Rayman and Bomberman games that have been released over the years. Bomberman is just insane, but still, all it could manage is 10 million units? Hardly sets the charts on fire, if at all. Star Fox has sold more as a franchise. Plus, consider that Bomberman is attached to Konami and is more or less a dormant franchise at this point, sadly.

Rayman is even worse. Sure, as a franchise it has sold close to 25 million, but that’s including the Raving Rabbids series. That alone accounts for over 14 million of that total, and really isn’t associated with Rayman whatsoever, and in many cases became more popular than Rayman himself. Adjusting that series out, the mainline Rayman games have really only sold 11 million.

So is Banjo-Kazooie any less iconic than these series? No. Banjo-Kazooie has a similar lifetime sales number to Rayman and Bomberman with much fewer games. Banjo-Kazooie even has a spiritual successor in the works, and that game became the fastest funded game on KickStarter, which just goes to prove my point that Banjo-Kazooie is just as iconic as Rayman and Bomberman, if not for similar sales, then it is for being one of the only games to ever go toe-to-toe with Super Mario 64 during its heyday

Why does Raving Rabbid's not count

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

You know what, we are going to squash Bomberman and Rayman once and for all. Let’s look at our almighty sales to determine which franchise is most iconic, since impact usually determines what makes an icon.

According to Wikipedia & VGChartz, these are the debut dates, total number of games and the total lifetime sales for each franchise:

Bomberman / 1983/ 10 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises#At_least_5_million_copies

Rayman / 1995 / 20-25 Million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

Banjo-Kazooie / 1998 / 7 Million

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=kazooie

Comparing these numbers at face value reveals that Rayman is much more popular than the other two and that Banjo Kazooie is at least as popular as Bomberman, right? No

List of Bomberman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bomberman_video_games

List of Rayman games:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman

List of Banjo-Kazooie games:

I might as well just list them because there are only four; Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Grunty’s Revenge and Nut’s & Bolts.

Rayman is even worse. Sure, as a franchise it has sold close to 25 million, but that’s including the Raving Rabbids series. That alone accounts for over 14 million of that total, and really isn’t associated with Rayman whatsoever, and in many cases became more popular than Rayman himself. Adjusting that series out, the mainline Rayman games have really only sold 11 million.

If were counting the Rabbids with Rayman, wouldn't that push Rayman up to 39 million, rather than subtracting it?

 

[Deleted member]

Why not? We are talking the amount of fans, not sales anyway.

And what evidence do you have to show that Rayman has more fans than Banjo?

 

[777Laser]

What's truly sad is that millennial kiddies genuinely believe that Rayman and Shovel Knight are more iconic than Banjo despite all the overwhelming evidence presented to them.

But I suppose we'll find out Tuesday.

Shovel Knight can't be Iconic when it is relatively new and hasn't stood the test of time yet. Maybe you can claim it's an iconic Indie game, which I don't know since I am rather ignorant about Shovel Knight.

Rayman is disputable, and is still alive unlike Banjo

 

[Morbi]

And what evidence do you have to show that Rayman has more fans than Banjo?

There is no piece of evidence that could possibly indicate such. That is more or less your point; however, I figured I would save him the embarrassment and answer your question myself.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Why does Raving Rabbid's not count

It's like saying Skylanders is popular because of Spyro. The series is basically totally unrelated to Rayman.

If were counting the Rabbids with Rayman, wouldn't that push Rayman up to 39 million, rather than subtracting it?

The Rayman franchise has 25 million in sales with the Rabbids included, so subtracting them it's 11 million for the main games, read the Wiki.