Flamingo
Smash Lord
Needles>Tornado
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Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ
- Thread starter saviorslegacy
- Start date
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
Anything else? If he's right up in my face, I might not be in a position to throw needles.
Villi
Smash Lord
Chain also... Otherwise, run away and tilt your shield up. After that, punish it with anything, but punish it.
Edit: If you hit it with a needle, they'll sometimes start a forward b by accident. If you run away or shield it, they'll usually retreat so that you will have much less time to punish it. They'll space to drop their tornado with as little lag as possible and try to punish your attempt at getting close somehow. Dsmash, up b, more tornado, oos shield option, sidestep downsmash. So grab or throw a needle or figure them out and do something.
stealth3654
Smash Lord
It has been found that characters can pivot grab MK out of his tornado, unless the character you are playing has a tether grab. Then the pivot is kinda pointless. This has been tested with IC (who has the worst pivot grab in the game) and still works.
I have a question. How do you do a crawl dash? I'm trying to do the glitch where you slide really far and do a move from a slant on a stage.
Here is a video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0RPa8_XD6Y
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HttB-BUcEGE
read the comments because I asked how to do this as well =P
Short Hop Forward > Barely before you land hold or right before you do, hold the Joystick down then roll it back to the side niche (very quickly, smoothly) and then let go.
Landing at the right position of slants will give you that extra boost, YI, Corneria Fin, etc.
It's pretty hard to get down and situational of course, but it could be such a good surprise tactic like DACUS
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Dude. I want to know how to do this too. Situational, yes, but isn't DACUS situational too?
I hardly DACUS, and there is no doubt I will hardly be doing this, but what is wrong with a freakin 100 MPH surprise attack every once in a while??
I hardly DACUS, and there is no doubt I will hardly be doing this, but what is wrong with a freakin 100 MPH surprise attack every once in a while??
Anyone have any idea what factors affect transformation's time (stage maybe)? Or is it completely random as far as we know? I've been getting unlucky with ridiculously long transformation times for no reason and keep getting punished when I should have been fine. Its annoying.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
The game has to load the character data for Zelda, because it wasn't pre-loaded like it was in Melee. (But in Melee there was no reason to switch) Anyways. Yes. If you are fighting a fellow Zelda, the transformation time will be significantly less because Zelda was already loaded into the game.
Um some trivia even the long-since members might not know. If two Sheiks or Pokemon Trainers try to switch at the same time, the player plugged into the first slot (1st player) will complete transformation first. However, if multiple transformations occur at once, it can cause the game to stall the transformations for a long while. Just some fun facts.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
Yup, everything Flamingo said is correct. Transformation between Zelda and Sheik is completely dependent on how fast your Wii is loading the character data. Other lag, stage information and other things will factor into this.
A simple trick that can be done is to press the Start Button (Pause) wait to hear your Wii load either info and then press Start again. You should immediately change then.
Make sure to also update your Wii, dust it, clean the disc reader etc.
That being said, I also think you should ask depending on Friendly or Tournament, if you can run a quick game and Down+B a couple times. Try to do it during warm ups, etc (this may or may not doing anything) Other then that make sure you knock your opponent from a far enough distance if you plan to Transform.
I know about the pausing (love this in friendlies) and that fighting zelda makes its much quicker, but I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to avoid absurdly long transformations. From what you said, I'm assuming it depends mostly completely on the Wii itself? I was thinking stage played a decent factor, because I remember someone saying something about Lylat lagging their transformation. Anything else specifically. I also remember my friend saying that he saw someone transform faster after the first time, but from my experience the time it takes is random no matter how many times you've transformed.
East
Crappy Imitation
This doesn't exactly make sense to me. Why and how would you pivot grab a metaknight who is doing the tornado, [this probably isn't going to make sense when I say it but...] when they're doing the tornado?
To be a bit more clear, at what point do you gain the ability to bypass being hit by the tornado, when you run past metaknight for the pivot grab?
The only other option I see is to run away and have Metaknight follow you with the tornado, but even then will a decent metaknight follow you everywhere? Wouldn't they just space themselves away to a safe distance?
This just doesn't make sense to me.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
The majority of the time it will take to transform depends on your Wii disc reader. So take care of your Wii. But as I said before, stage information and other things will factor into your transformation. Instances where other codes of info will clog up and out prioritize the command to transform, like new scenery frames in the background of the stage, an item spawning, stock's changing, opponent respawn.
Small things, the entire game going on in fact, is all receiving data and that's when you hear your Wii click and what not while reading the disc. Try transforming during a clean reading, listen to it.
(Example of 1 match-I just tested)
If Player 1 is Sheik, Player 2 is Zelda and Player 3 is Sheik for example.
Lets say Player 1 Transforms, the time will be cut considerably while he transforms into Zelda. When Player 1 Transforms back to Sheik how ever, even though Player 3 is already Sheik, it takes more time then it did when he transformed into Zelda for some reason, only slightly by my count.
Now with Player 1 as Sheik, Player 3 as Sheik and Player 2 as Zelda, the time it takes to transform to Sheik for Player 2 becomes the same count as Player 1's Down+B into Zelda.
Now all Players are Sheik BUT the transformation Time of turning into Zelda was Kept even though no players were Zelda.
The Player with the lowest port always transforms the quickest by priority. (if all players transform at the same time) Or even in general it seemed that way. So it is always better to be Player 1 if you ever find yourself in a ditto match.
In all cases transforming to Sheik took longer then transforming to Zelda, which is good I guess.
(Example of 2nd Match)
I went to the same level. Player 1 is Sheik, Player 2 as Ganondorf.
The time it took to transform from the previous match, stayed. (Personally, it was off by 1 count but it was still considerably low) So that would prove my theory of transforming previous to all matches would lessen the time in future fights, at least if you're fighting on the same level.
(Example of 3rd Match)
new level, new opponent. The time to transform seemed to stay the same as the 2nd match, Taking only a little longer to get to Sheik by 2 counts though.
summary: Transforming into Zelda takes less time then transforming into Sheik. Player port with the lowest number count (1-4) has priority over the rest. Another Zelda and or Sheik in the same match will cut transformation time down. Pausing will allow the disc to be read and upon un-Pausing transformation is faster. Previously transforming on stages you plan to fight on seem to cut down Transformation time.
Stage scenery, item spawn, or other data input during a match may result in longer transformation.
Overall it is situational, and dependent on many factors but those are some things to consider when Transforming.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
I think that's what he means (in red)
I second MK, and I will follow running opponents until I hit sheild, unless they get too far away or when too much time has passed.. otherwise I safely retreat. I also use the tornado as bait, follow you and then retreat, where you are foolishly dashing toward me and I am waiting to 1. Dsmash or 2. Sheild->OoS Nair.
I believe that many MKs would indeed fall for this, however, I can say that I wouldn't. It's not that I am gloating, but it is because I have had extensive experience vs. an Olimar main (my doubles partner. And believe me, you CAN be grabbed out of Tornado quite easily. Yep.. I would say you are safe to do this at least once or twice vs. a MK. However, how I avoid this by MK is floating at my enemy's head level with the tornado. (This works against olimar because his grab is fairly low.) Sheik is much taller than Olimar, thus her grab is probably higher as well, so if MK is flying low, go for the pivot grab, if he is about head-level with you... I honestly don't know who will win, (probably MK)
Hope this helped.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Does Tristan get praise for whom he beat in pools? ~proceeds to milk it for no reason~
______Lost, Win
1. Candy 2-0
1. Ambrose 2-1
3. Tristan Win ~
4. Izumi 0-2
4. BetaZealot 1-2
6. Laws 0-2
7. Ninja Edd 0-2
8. Munk 0-2
9. Manic 0-2
______Lost, Win
1. Candy 2-0
1. Ambrose 2-1
3. Tristan Win ~
4. Izumi 0-2
4. BetaZealot 1-2
6. Laws 0-2
7. Ninja Edd 0-2
8. Munk 0-2
9. Manic 0-2
East
Crappy Imitation
Wait, you only beat 2 people? I thought you got outta pools?
Edit: lol, ooooooh That does change things quite a bit, doesn't it
In that case, a job well done Tristan. Hopefully I'll be able to do the same at HERB1 next month.
Edit: lol, ooooooh That does change things quite a bit, doesn't it
In that case, a job well done Tristan. Hopefully I'll be able to do the same at HERB1 next month.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
See Tristan you did pretty awesome, you went far in such a big show up. I'm going to try and hit up a tourney for Brawl tomorrow.
Which makes me wonder now a very small thing... Not sure how to present my Tag during gameplay
Voyer, Voyur, V, ....I hate Voy..... I could always use KeK (it means lol in WoW when Horde type to Ally)
what do you guys think look the best? =P
Which makes me wonder now a very small thing... Not sure how to present my Tag during gameplay
Voyer, Voyur, V, ....I hate Voy..... I could always use KeK (it means lol in WoW when Horde type to Ally)
what do you guys think look the best? =P
East
Crappy Imitation
I'd go with Voyer
P.S. Give'em hell Voyeur
P.S. Give'em hell Voyeur
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
rinoH
Smash Lord
go with Voyr looks better
Flamingo
Smash Lord
I like "voYer"... unique... and if you try to pronounce it, it remains similar except cut a little abruptly at the end.
Good luck my friend.
Good luck my friend.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Can someone explain to me the ''Chain'' concept.
I thought it sucked, but it's being used in many arguments, and it can beat MK???
Wat?
I thought it sucked, but it's being used in many arguments, and it can beat MK???
Wat?
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Stickies will guide you to the light.
wh1te5had0w
Smash Journeyman
Would you add the vanish attack into your mindgame?
East
Crappy Imitation
A well placed vanish after a throw is a nice mix-up. It normally won't kill until around 170ish [At least for Marth anyway, make adjustments accordingly] but it's usually unexpected. Overabuse of it will get you severely punished though.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
That's my combo. >.< And ~130 is more like it I think.
General misconception. Sh chain + good chain control is amazing if the oponent has no answer for it. Even if they do a chain lock can rack a decent amount of damage making it useful in many matchup's though if they do have a projectile you should probably use it sparingly.
wh1te5had0w
Smash Journeyman
would you do that vanish glide thing or is that just for looks? i just want know for no reason 
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
It's a situational edgeguard or a fancy way to edgehog, that's about it, it has a limited movement area and your opponent should quickly catch on and avoid it, though it works as a nice surprise due to its relatively high knockback and invincibility frames.
FrozenFire13
Smash Ace
I killed an MK with this ^ to win a match, lol. It was sexy.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
I've killed many people by vanish gliding. What are they going to do, airdodge it? PS, when returning to the ledge (and if it doesn't hit them), make sure you press diagonally up+toward the stage if it seems like your opponent might grab the ledge before you do.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Vanish Glides are about 70% flashy 30% practicality. Jumping and vanishing works just as well.
Vanish Glides were great for Melee because of the game speed and inability to airdodge multiple times, and of course not everyone had tethers.
If you can time it well so you explode when they're at the EDGE of your range, usually this eliminates problems, and if you habitually hit straight to the ledge to try to edgehog, stop. If you hit them you don't need to get there so fast, and if you didn't hit them you'll get hogged anyway, though Wind saves you sometimes.
In conclusion, yeah, it still works well, but don't get predictable and don't return to the ledge. In Melee it was an edgehogger, in Brawl it's a kill move.
Vanish Glides were great for Melee because of the game speed and inability to airdodge multiple times, and of course not everyone had tethers.
If you can time it well so you explode when they're at the EDGE of your range, usually this eliminates problems, and if you habitually hit straight to the ledge to try to edgehog, stop. If you hit them you don't need to get there so fast, and if you didn't hit them you'll get hogged anyway, though Wind saves you sometimes.
In conclusion, yeah, it still works well, but don't get predictable and don't return to the ledge. In Melee it was an edgehogger, in Brawl it's a kill move.
East
Crappy Imitation
Is autocanceling nairs a good idea? I'm pretty sure that an approaching nair is not a good approach, so would there really be any point to autocanceling it? Is Autocanceling in general any help to Sheik?
Generally, no. The only use of autocanceled nair is as a frametrap against Olimar's shield by immediately following up with jab.
Autocanceled bair is good for keeping the bairs as close together as possible when doing a WoP, I guess.
Autocanceled bair is good for keeping the bairs as close together as possible when doing a WoP, I guess.
East
Crappy Imitation
What is a frame trap?
Frametrapping is doing something that looks punishable followed by something to catch any punish attempts, usually done with something that can cancel at a deceptive point (Wolf usmash), or following up with something that has invulnerability on startup (Marth Dolphin Slash). It can throw opponents off guard and give you a free opening every once in a while.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
besides being tossed against the ground immediately or to a wall and having to tech them, those times when you are soaring/hovering close to the ground after being throw or knocked back you can do a nice Fair auto cancel to regain footing to the ground instead of waiting for a tech, or that's how I've used it.
Other then that it doesn't seem like a huge staple but, it's nice doing SHFF Fairs that auto canceling when dealing with a Peach for example.
But I didn't know Bair could auto cancel, what are the frames for that? I always get this slight landing lag
Other then that it doesn't seem like a huge staple but, it's nice doing SHFF Fairs that auto canceling when dealing with a Peach for example.
But I didn't know Bair could auto cancel, what are the frames for that? I always get this slight landing lag
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Maybe I should experiment with the chain more... I never use it.
Are there any situations where it is... well... necessary?
Are there any situations where it is... well... necessary?