phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Hit me up on AIM/PM me, I can help.
I've been intending to finish sheik's frame data for smashlab since I'm done with Lucario's phase 1, but I have heavy school johns
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Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ
- Thread starter saviorslegacy
- Start date
I've been intending to finish sheik's frame data for smashlab since I'm done with Lucario's phase 1, but I have heavy school johns
Tewx2
Smash Ace
oh about Sheik's grabs... they're really fast, but i was taking into account their short range so if you count the frames it takes to actually get within grab range it becomes an average speed grab...
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Sheik's grabs are alright imo. You might not have played with a character that has REALLY abysmal grab range, like ICs, Wolf, Pikachu, or Lucario, now those leave something to be desired. Especially those on the list that have the least reliable setups for them (funnily enough, those seem to be the most potentially dangerous grabbers on this list lol). Sheik's got jab mixups, ftilt, and I've even seen aerials setup for grabs at low percents.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
All grabs in the game except for D3, Zelda, and tethers are the same speed frame 6. D3's is frame 5 (one faster than everyone else) Zeldas i believe is frame 8 (tho not sure) and tethers idk lol.
Also sheiks nair is frame 3. There aren't any aerials in the game faster than frame 3 except MK's uair (which btw is broken i think 13 frame total). So actually sheiks nair is the same speed or faster than EVERY sex kick in the game.
We need frame data cause I think we have bair listed as frame 5 unless i saw wrong a while back.
Also sheiks nair is frame 3. There aren't any aerials in the game faster than frame 3 except MK's uair (which btw is broken i think 13 frame total). So actually sheiks nair is the same speed or faster than EVERY sex kick in the game.
We need frame data cause I think we have bair listed as frame 5 unless i saw wrong a while back.
Tewx2
Smash Ace
What's an unviable move of Sheiks? Also I'm always losing the sex kick war, am I just doing it too late?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
down tilt is pretty pointless imo.
might as well jab/f tilt/grab/dash attack in any situation that would call for it.
might as well jab/f tilt/grab/dash attack in any situation that would call for it.
dash pivoit and standing grabs are all different from what I've understood.
Tewx2
Smash Ace
Dtilt sets up ftilt better than jab, crouch goes under the hit box for some grabs, you can crawl back and forth to space the tip without having to turn around, it can poke people who are tilting their shields up, hits people on the ledge. Dtilt mad useful.
dtilt is situational, its a neat anti air it beat a lot of aerial pokes in way ftilt or even utilt couldn't. sheik's dtilt beats sheik's back air for example.
experiment more with fsmash guys this move is way too good to completely ignore. It's sheik's highest ranged move and it isn't that slow...
EDIT:
fsmash is my whole edge game for example the move has huge sheild slide and will normally push opponent off stage making the ending lag a non issue.
experiment more with fsmash guys this move is way too good to completely ignore. It's sheik's highest ranged move and it isn't that slow...
EDIT:
fsmash is my whole edge game for example the move has huge sheild slide and will normally push opponent off stage making the ending lag a non issue.
Tewx2
Smash Ace
I don't see the relevance. @Snizz
FSmash is so useful at low percents, and if ur attacking the back of someones shield it provides heavy pressure that isnt punishable by people with bad/slow bairs. And isn't it like 15 damage if u hit with both kicks? I love FSmash.
Too add on to <3's example if the first kick pushes him off the ledge the second kick will hit them.
FSmash is so useful at low percents, and if ur attacking the back of someones shield it provides heavy pressure that isnt punishable by people with bad/slow bairs. And isn't it like 15 damage if u hit with both kicks? I love FSmash.
Too add on to <3's example if the first kick pushes him off the ledge the second kick will hit them.
I agree with chain and dair. dair is only good for accidentally suiciding... good at being bad.
lol, I actually use it for it maneuverability. It is a sort of stall; changes your landing time when you don't have you jumps or you can fake a second jump or full hop... I don't really like the move at all because you are SO comited to it. if hit had more sheild stun or less lag I'd use it a lot more but it isn't worth the insane commitment you have to make when it is beat by so many options (shield, dodge, spot dodge, attacks, rolls)
lol, I actually use it for it maneuverability. It is a sort of stall; changes your landing time when you don't have you jumps or you can fake a second jump or full hop... I don't really like the move at all because you are SO comited to it. if hit had more sheild stun or less lag I'd use it a lot more but it isn't worth the insane commitment you have to make when it is beat by so many options (shield, dodge, spot dodge, attacks, rolls)
Tewx2
Smash Ace
I love Dair. Even though you're 100% committed to it... I'm a very committed person, it's pretty good at shield poking, and covers most ledge get up options. It's also a move that nobody ever expects you to use... Unless u abuse it, but it's still a nice mix up every now and then.
There's a bunch of applicable uses for chain... Did you mean grounded chain or chain in general though?
Standing upsmash is just an application of Upsmash and not actually a different move.
Read the above posts for FSmash.
There's a bunch of applicable uses for chain... Did you mean grounded chain or chain in general though?
Standing upsmash is just an application of Upsmash and not actually a different move.
Read the above posts for FSmash.
Just a note, Snake's grab is 9 frames.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
I thought f smash did 10% with each hit...
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
Really thats weird. So then snake shouldn't reasonably ever grab armor our moves.
Also fsmash is a pretty good option at the ledge as <3 said. Also its a pretty good punish if they do something right next to you. Just make sure that that is where you hit them with is RIGHT next to you.
According to snake boards its frame 8 but i didn't know they weren't all the same. Is sheiks 6?
FrozenFire13
Smash Ace
People are saying Fsmash is useful and the chain isn't?
Blasphemy
fsmash has two hit boxes. that should always lead into you fsmash. the tippered version where the basically is no knock back, and the closer version which sends then a set distance regardless of percent. normally I aim for the tipper version since generally there are better options like ftilt and jab for the closer one.
The move is actually a little character dependant too. some character like DK have weird hit animations (DK is like crazy hard to drill rest for example because of it.) they'll lead forward or back and end up missing the fsmash other characters will fall forward or something and are nearly impossible to not hit with both. fsmash1 can also be smash DIed so that hit two doesn't connect... but that is so unrealistically difficult to do that fsmash is worth the risk if you know you'll connect.
punishing close errors that have like a 8-9 ish frame window should generally be done with ftilt but those time where they are just out of reach and you'd have to go for dash attach or dash grab fsmash may be the better option.
at least that how I see it.
EDIT:
it's percent dependant too though.
like at 140 fsmash may be a better option than fsmash. against a charcater like snake. If you wanna tave your dsmash and still get snake off stage
OH~ because the hit box is huge I use it to punish the more mobile characters freefall/airdodge into the ground to make sure my hit box overlaps with all of their possible landing points.
The move is actually a little character dependant too. some character like DK have weird hit animations (DK is like crazy hard to drill rest for example because of it.) they'll lead forward or back and end up missing the fsmash other characters will fall forward or something and are nearly impossible to not hit with both. fsmash1 can also be smash DIed so that hit two doesn't connect... but that is so unrealistically difficult to do that fsmash is worth the risk if you know you'll connect.
punishing close errors that have like a 8-9 ish frame window should generally be done with ftilt but those time where they are just out of reach and you'd have to go for dash attach or dash grab fsmash may be the better option.
at least that how I see it.
EDIT:
it's percent dependant too though.
like at 140 fsmash may be a better option than fsmash. against a charcater like snake. If you wanna tave your dsmash and still get snake off stage
OH~ because the hit box is huge I use it to punish the more mobile characters freefall/airdodge into the ground to make sure my hit box overlaps with all of their possible landing points.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Sort of, there's a lot of discrepancies.
Like Ankoku said, snake's standing grab, for example is slower (frame 8 I believe is the actual number), which is part of the reason why the Marth v. Snake MU is a bit hard for Snake. His pivot grab is beast though, great range and fast (frame 9 is okay actually, but for the range it offers, it's great).
Sheik's are 6, 7, and 8 for Standing, Dash, and Pivot grab, respectively.
Most "good" ones are 6 on standing grab, and 10 or less on dash/pivot. This is solely on speed though, it doesn't account for range.
sheikamaru
jive
what are some good stage picks against a peach or lucario to give me an advantage? or stages i should just plain avoid?
Tewx2
Smash Ace
Like vs Peach take her somewhere with uneven ground.
And vs lucario pick your favorite stage to run away on.
And vs lucario pick your favorite stage to run away on.
sheikamaru
jive
the only stage i can think of with an uneven ground is...yi.... and maybe lylat
Tewx2
Smash Ace
You just got 2 answers ^.^
I have vids of me vs KIng Beef on the video thread from a couple months ago. I lost the set but it could still help to serve as reference.
I have vids of me vs KIng Beef on the video thread from a couple months ago. I lost the set but it could still help to serve as reference.
sheikamaru
jive
i'd like to see it :D *surfing youtube for lifechanging answers*
Tewx2
Smash Ace
You really should keep in mind that I lost the set lol.
sheikamaru
jive
yea i saw :/ at least you made it to game 3 -.- you guys know if there's a way to gimp peach? if so any vids of it? :D
sheikamaru
jive
you had a second sexy match though too i might add :D now that i'm thinking about it.. peach players will genearally ban yi and lylat as their 2 bans :/ so either way we're gonna be at a disadvantage b/c it's good to take peach to either stage.... you have 2 irregular stages and the rest are flat so... we're outta luck w/ the first pick... and assuming we win the second match it's back to a flat stage again... which narrows it back down to just skill >.>
Tewx2
Smash Ace
Well I mean, you can't count on counterpicking someone twice. I would try to start on BF.
un even ground isn't going to destroy peach's game. good peaches are going to work around it. In my opinion you are better off just picking the stage you are most comfortable with.
lucario FD if he doesn't ban it.
lucario FD if he doesn't ban it.
"Working around it" does not mean "completely negating it."
thats true but you have more of a disadvantage on these stages than peach does. Un level plats aren't a game crippling thing for peaches its something they have to be aware of, yes, but peach is still a very powerful character even without instant retreating/approaching aerials.
peach is hard... but I think I agree. her hit boxes are too big and make her whole hard really safe. there isn't much room to punish anything.
We can't combo her well at any percent. low percents = nair, hiegher percents = one; two tilts, a follow up(that sends her far away and puts her in the air).
Its difficult to set up kills on her becuase of how safe she is even when player aggresively. MK is as safe against sheik as peachis frame wise, just to give an example.
We can't combo her well at any percent. low percents = nair, hiegher percents = one; two tilts, a follow up(that sends her far away and puts her in the air).
Its difficult to set up kills on her becuase of how safe she is even when player aggresively. MK is as safe against sheik as peachis frame wise, just to give an example.
Tewx2
Smash Ace
I dont find uneven stages to be a hindrance to Sheik. Lylas is my go to CP for most of the cast in fact.
my issue on yoshi's is it messes up my ledge game (the ghost, the angle on the lip) and it destroys my aerial spacing. when you land on slanted plats you move more in the direction it is slanting than you normally would. You slide. so even if I space say... fair perfectly I can end up being in grab range where on flat stages that wouldn't be an issue.
lylat has similar issues. but it's also difficult to make use of needles on this stage all the time because of the way the stage slants. The stage itself will force you to approach a lot of the time.
I don't particularly like the plats on either stage
lylat has similar issues. but it's also difficult to make use of needles on this stage all the time because of the way the stage slants. The stage itself will force you to approach a lot of the time.
I don't particularly like the plats on either stage
Tewx2
Smash Ace
Needles can become more accessible on Lylat, if you play the tilt right, all the platforms are low enough an small enough to tipper through, or knock them off for a tech chase. and unless you find yourself below the stage I find it really easy to autocancel vanish on the stage, or snipe the ledge. And as an aggro player, I find it easier to camp on Lylat, it's the the stage was built for our Bair.
Personally I don't like Yoshis, but I feel that it's more I dislike the stage opposed to the stage itself is bad for Sheik.
Personally I don't like Yoshis, but I feel that it's more I dislike the stage opposed to the stage itself is bad for Sheik.
Judo777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,627
Hitting the ledge on lylat isn;t easy and its an unnecessary risk. Also we can't tipper or even utilt (that one im not sure of) through the middle platform or lylat.
the middle plat is lame...
hitting the ledge is important on that stage a lot of the time Its something you should put effort into learning. but you also have chain for that.
I don't think sheik really has any bad stages, some are better than others. and some charcter do better than she does on most stages. peach doesn't lose enough in my opinion on slanted stages to warrant going to them when you can pick a stage you are more comfortable with.
I like norfair.
hitting the ledge is important on that stage a lot of the time Its something you should put effort into learning. but you also have chain for that.
I don't think sheik really has any bad stages, some are better than others. and some charcter do better than she does on most stages. peach doesn't lose enough in my opinion on slanted stages to warrant going to them when you can pick a stage you are more comfortable with.
I like norfair.