Got a question! Sheik Q&A & FAQ

[Zankoku]

Unless I'm missing something, yes he can.

 

[J4pu]

Marth can't JC shield into reverse UpB? that's news to me.
ninjad... by over an hour of time, **** you new page

why is one of the character forums i frequent always dead?
it used to be ICs, now it's sheik

 

[AphoticBankai]

A few questions.

My biggest issue right now is Snake. My roommate plays him, and over the past few days we've both improved leaps and bounds.

And unfortunately he learned that if I'm over 100% and on the ledge, he can space an utilt that kicks my *** 3/5 times.

So far I've been trying to get back on with an Fair, but it doesn't always work. Any better options?

Then I'm gonna extend that question to ledge games in general. Is there some awesome way Sheik has to play a decent ledge game, or am I gonna be running into troubles every time I'm there? Normally my Fair will get me out of situations, except with my roommate.

Then there's just DACUS. We both learned how to do it, and I'd say I have an...80% success rate on it. But that 20% kicks me in the *** sometimes. Any suggestions? I can do it with Link Snake and Wolf just about 100% =\ For some reason Sheik just messes me up more. Didn't know if somebody else had a similar problem and solved it.


Oh, and while it's on my mind, autocanceling. I don't know what it even is, let alone how to do it. If somebody could shine some light on this for me that'd be great.

 

[-Mars-]

A few questions.

My biggest issue right now is Snake. My roommate plays him, and over the past few days we've both improved leaps and bounds.

And unfortunately he learned that if I'm over 100% and on the ledge, he can space an utilt that kicks my *** 3/5 times.

So far I've been trying to get back on with an Fair, but it doesn't always work. Any better options?

Then I'm gonna extend that question to ledge games in general. Is there some awesome way Sheik has to play a decent ledge game, or am I gonna be running into troubles every time I'm there? Normally my Fair will get me out of situations, except with my roommate.

Then there's just DACUS. We both learned how to do it, and I'd say I have an...80% success rate on it. But that 20% kicks me in the *** sometimes. Any suggestions? I can do it with Link Snake and Wolf just about 100% =\ For some reason Sheik just messes me up more. Didn't know if somebody else had a similar problem and solved it.


Oh, and while it's on my mind, autocanceling. I don't know what it even is, let alone how to do it. If somebody could shine some light on this for me that'd be great.

Snake's a tough matchup especially with the weight difference of the two characters.

Sheik just is bad in general on the ledge. You'll have to learn to get used to this if you want to continue to improve with Sheik. Snake can cover about all of her options on the ledge......there is really no advice I can give you as no option is completely safe....you'll just have to focus on mixing it up so he can't read you as well.

Sheik's DACUS isharder than all other characters so expect to not nail it 100%. That's something you'll just hvae to get accustomed to as well.

Auto cancelling is using an aerial at the proper height in order that you land with no lag. For example you can short hop an uair and land with no lag....you just have to execute the aerial at the right time/height.

Hope that helped buddy.

 

[<π]

use your ledge invincibility to your advantage. wether you whip or not you'll get 20+ frames of invincibility while you can act. you can use that to jump off the edge (not ledge hop, but litterally hit jump while holding on) and be completely safe. on the way up. you can use the inviciblity to ledge drop fair whip obviously he can't beat or punish while grounded. (aerials always beat ground attacks)

Ledge drop needles another invincible on start up, hard to punish tactic that can help get people away from the edge and give you room to work with

you can mix in a ledge drop to a land on stage, it's risky since you won't have invincibility, but normally because of invincible fair you'll get enough room not to feel too too afraid of punishment. (When I do this i try to get a set rhythm of me dropping off and regrabing the edge. like: ledge drop->fast fall->jump->grab. when I feel like they are comfortable with that rhythm I'll try ledge drop->jump->land. skipping the fast fall completely or timing it so that I can just barely land on the edge. since the jump falls in the same place timing wise a lot of people don't pick up that I'm too high to regrab and most of the time I can get off a jab or ftilt or grab before they can react to the fact that im in front of them.... obviously far from perfect here, but the brawl is all mind games anyway.

on smashvillie you can wait for the plat.

on BF you can jump to the center plat which sets up for good mix ups as far as the jump on option they have a lot of space to cover especially for snake and his laggy aerials and aerial game in general.

on stages like defino and Halbred don't feel too bad just waiting for the stage change. you also have a lot to play around with as far as going through the stage here too you can use upB to shark on on reaction find some where to be that is unpunishable on reaction, even if that place is the edge.


IN short, yeah her ledge game is kinda bad. In most cases any way getting on stage is a gamble. but you have tons of tools to apply pressure from off stage and still be safe, use those to try and throw off their balance and safely get on stage.

 

[Judo777]

use your ledge invincibility to your advantage. wether you whip or not you'll get 20+ frames of invincibility while you can act. you can use that to jump off the edge (not ledge hop, but litterally hit jump while holding on) and be completely safe. on the way up. you can use the inviciblity to ledge drop fair whip obviously he can't beat or punish while grounded. (aerials always beat ground attacks)

Ledge drop needles another invincible on start up, hard to punish tactic that can help get people away from the edge and give you room to work with

you can mix in a ledge drop to a land on stage, it's risky since you won't have invincibility, but normally because of invincible fair you'll get enough room not to feel too too afraid of punishment. (When I do this i try to get a set rhythm of me dropping off and regrabing the edge. like: ledge drop->fast fall->jump->grab. when I feel like they are comfortable with that rhythm I'll try ledge drop->jump->land. skipping the fast fall completely or timing it so that I can just barely land on the edge. since the jump falls in the same place timing wise a lot of people don't pick up that I'm too high to regrab and most of the time I can get off a jab or ftilt or grab before they can react to the fact that im in front of them.... obviously far from perfect here, but the brawl is all mind games anyway.

on smashvillie you can wait for the plat.

on BF you can jump to the center plat which sets up for good mix ups as far as the jump on option they have a lot of space to cover especially for snake and his laggy aerials and aerial game in general.

on stages like defino and Halbred don't feel too bad just waiting for the stage change. you also have a lot to play around with as far as going through the stage here too you can use upB to shark on on reaction find some where to be that is unpunishable on reaction, even if that place is the edge.


IN short, yeah her ledge game is kinda bad. In most cases any way getting on stage is a gamble. but you have tons of tools to apply pressure from off stage and still be safe, use those to try and throw off their balance and safely get on stage.

Just like to point out that if u tether the stage u get less invincibility than if u grab the ledge regularly. Also aerials dont always beat grounded moves just alot of times they do. It all depends on the range of the two moves that are being used since aerials dont clank with anything.

 

[J4pu]

you get less invincibility overall, but the same amount of useful invincibility (unless you're trying to stall)
when you use a tether to grab an edge you can do w/e you want instantly, when you grab it normally there's a wait period that eats up your extra invincibility frames.

 

[<π]

If most ground moves will trade with aerials assuming moth hit boxes connect at the same time. in stead of clashing like grounded moves can. if you take advantage of invulnerability you can take and hit and give one without taking damage or being knocked back. you will always win this kind of confrontation.

 

[Paixy]

Seeing as how the Chain Jacket glitch can freeze your game without doing moves before....if you're playing on wifi and you do it so it freezes, will it freeze for the other players aswell?

Just curious. I don't know how the glitch works, so it's likely to be a dumb question.

 

[Zankoku]

<3: You're not gonna have enough invulnerability (about half a second) to safely drop from the ledge into an aerial unless they're standing right next to the ledge and you can hit them on the rise.

Paixy: Yes.

 

[<π]

<3: You're not gonna have enough invulnerability (about half a second) to safely drop from the ledge into an aerial unless they're standing right next to the ledge and you can hit them on the rise.

Paixy: Yes.

yep, if they aren't close enough to be hit by that they can be hit with needles, far enough not to be hit by that chances are you can stand on and not be punished too hard.

so yeah while none of these are all that safe if you plan on landing on stage with them they can clear up room for you to try...

 

[Judo777]

Hey sheiks im looking for some help cause i was looking at the fox boards and i came across something that i feel might be useful for sheik.

I was searching the the peach and lucario boards frame datas trying to makes sure this is legit but im a little uneasy on the exact mechanics of frame data as far as idk if there is 1 frame of input before u the move initiates and if u can buffer it during frames of lag or w/e. I'd feel better if Ankoku could give me feed back or not.

Anyway my point is man o man dont we hate those troublesome peach's and lucarios tormenting us with dair. Well i was looking on the fox boards and i saw Sheild Jump Canceled Upsmash. This is done by shielding then jumping out of shielding and upsmashing at the same time similar to up B OoS. I used to to non shield versions when attempting auto canceled uairs. Anyway i would like to believe that that we can punish peachs dair and lucarios dair OoS since our upsmash comes out on frame 12 i believe. Its hard to tell because peach is real close and lucarios shield stun changes but id like to have confirmation.

From what i understand we have 9 frame advantage on peach after dair and her fastest option afterward is nair at frame 3 so i am unsure if that means we are 1 frame short or not on being able to punish that since the jump canceled upsmash avoids shield drop lag. Also lucario we have a beatiful 15 frames of ending lag on his dair however thats not taking into account of much shield lag we have to deal with i couldnt find the info on shiled stun for lucario its probably in its own thread.

if u wanna compare the frame data here are all the links
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255484&highlight="Frame+Data" Sheik

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246380 Peach

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211488&highlight="Frame+Data" Lucario

But man just think if we could kill lucarios and peaches for dairing us especially since lucari is much lighter off the top.

 

[J4pu]

completely oblivious to what the frame data is and just going off of experience, I'd say sheik's usmash comes out way too slow.

 

[<π]

you can upsmash oos. frame ten. (tipped upsmash comes out frame ten)

nair oos prob takes like 8-10? and I can beat peach's dair with that. definitely worth looking into.

oh, people with tap jump off. if you hold up and hit jump and A together you'll upsmash. this work out of sheild as well.

 

[Judo777]

you can upsmash oos. frame ten. (tipped upsmash comes out frame ten)

nair oos prob takes like 8-10? and I can beat peach's dair with that. definitely worth looking into.

oh, people with tap jump off. if you hold up and hit jump and A together you'll upsmash. this work out of sheild as well.

the frame data says upsmash is out on frame 12 and nair is supposed to be 3 frames is there something im missing?

 

[<π]

well you have to jump oos. that jump animation takes time. ours is like 4 or 5?
completely irrelevant but snakes is 10! wow.

usmash according to East's data is frame 11.

 

[Judo777]

well you have to jump oos. that jump animation takes time. ours is like 4 or 5?
completely irrelevant but snakes is 10! wow.

usmash according to East's data is frame 11.

accoding to the dodge roll frame data upsmash OoS and UpB OoS skip the jump squat animation so it should be faster but yea ur right about nair now that i think about it.

 

[AphoticBankai]

Is there any use to Dair? Ever? =\

 

[Judo777]

Is there any use to Dair? Ever? =\

Mixing up recovery every now and then and getting to the ground on wind phase of PS2 thats about it.

 

[J4pu]

if someone is juggling you effectively, you can occasionally use it to throw off their timing since it does that pause at first then shoots you down quickly.

 

[sniperworm]

Is there any use to Dair? Ever? =\

Suiciding in crews.

 

[Zankoku]

usmash out of shield against Peach's dair sounds like something that'll work exactly once. Every other time after that they'll just stop floating directly above you after dair ends.

 

[Judo777]

usmash out of shield against Peach's dair sounds like something that'll work exactly once. Every other time after that they'll just stop floating directly above you after dair ends.

Idk what i missed but i tested and its not even close. Lucario maybe idk yet. But hey if it worked once i would take it.

 

[<π]

did you usmash out of sheild and instead of a sheild drop?

usmash OOS is one of sheik's fastest grounded attack options only jab and grab are faster.

 

[vato_break]

Bowser
captian falcon
Ganon
Ike
Jigglypuff
Link
Lucas
mario
ness
samus
Yoshi
zelda


does sheik lose to anyone on this list??

 

[Judo777]

did you usmash out of sheild and instead of a sheild drop?

usmash OOS is one of sheik's fastest grounded attack options only jab and grab are faster.

Yea it was OoS not shield drop peaches dair is almost completely lagless. Id would contemplate if math or MK can upb out of shield to swat her dair to nair cause u seem to still be in shield stun.

 

[<π]

Bowser
captian falcon
Ganon
Ike
Jigglypuff
Link
Lucas
mario
ness
samus
Yoshi
zelda


does sheik lose to anyone on this list??

lose? no, I think she can go even with a few jiggs.... bowser kinda. don't know the ness match up well enough she beats everyone else pretty soundly I think.

trying to make her low teir or something? thats a horrible idea >: [

 

[vato_break]

no no theres a low tier tournament and the TO allowed sheik and i want to convince him to not ...allow sheik lol

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik ***** Ness.

Her worst matchups on that list are Mario, Jigglypuff, Samus, and Bowser, but none of them are disadvantaged.

 

[Judo777]

Ironically enough Ike is gonna **** everyone in low tier tourneys lol

 

[Airborne]

The Sheik v Air Camping Yoshi MU is 95:5 Yoshi! Just ask Judo! ;D

Spoiler

He 2-stocks me sometimes. =(

 

[Judo777]

The Sheik v Air Camping Yoshi MU is 95:5 Yoshi! Just ask Judo! ;D

Spoiler

He 2-stocks me sometimes. =(

Psh w/e son get out of my boards! lol

 

[Airborne]

Psh w/e son get of my boards! lol

l2grammar, son.

 

[Yung Mei]

the other day i was playing with a friend as shiek, and something odd happened. I was trying to recover, he got hit by the first Poof, then the second poof (we were both at high damage, the first Poof shouldve killed him) hit him, then he fell back to the stage as if it was a footstool jump or something. is that normal?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Yea, you caught him with your vanish wind. It stops momentum at high damages and for the most part, robs you of a kill. On the bright side, if they don't tech the ground, you can still kill them lol

 

[Yung Mei]

Yea, you caught him with your vanish wind. It stops momentum at high damages and for the most part, robs you of a kill. On the bright side, if they don't tech the ground, you can still kill them lol

oh ok. we were freakin out, never seen that before lol

 

[Tristan_win]

~steps out of some random shadow~

Yeah it's really odd; it's one of the things Sheik's haven't really deeply looked into. I don't have a link to back it up but I recall I once saw a video of Sheik vanish catch actually being able to combo. From what I remember it wasn't near killing percents of vanish and was done in training mode and he manage to combo the vanish explosion into a jab.

A thought I've had in the past in how to use the vanish catch was when opponents were recovery mid to low heights was to place a vanish directly in their path, if they DI toward the stage as they got hit they might be lunch toward the reappearing area and get spiked by the catch wind ultimately killing them in a percent it might of not otherwise.

Another thought was to reappear near the ledge when a opponent was about to grab it and hold down so you wouldn't immediately grab the ledge to allow the wind hit box to push them away and gimping them.

~step back into another shadow~

 

[Yung Mei]

~steps out of some random shadow~

Yeah it's really odd; it's one of the things Sheik's haven't really deeply looked into. I don't have a link to back it up but I recall I once saw a video of Sheik vanish catch actually being able to combo. From what I remember it wasn't near killing percents of vanish and was done in training mode and he manage to combo the vanish explosion into a jab.

A thought I've had in the past in how to use the vanish catch was when opponents were recovery mid to low heights was to place a vanish directly in their path, if they DI toward the stage as they got hit they might be lunch toward the reappearing area and get spiked by the catch wind ultimately killing them in a percent it might of not otherwise.

Another thought was to reappear near the ledge when a opponent was about to grab it and hold down so you wouldn't immediately grab the ledge to allow the wind hit box to push them away and gimping them.

~step back into another shadow~

i actually combo'd into dSmash with that. it didnt kill him though

 

[aefootballa008]

this was probably posted somewhere but how do you DI properly w/ sheik?

 

[J4pu]

fa ir