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Got myself a video and picture of Wolf's Spiking F-air.

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
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CO
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Every single character in the game has this "undiscovered" spike.

As in, no one has an undiscovered spike. It's just DI.

Unless Wolf actually has an fair spike. I have no idea about him. :p
 

AssaultX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
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Washington
Actually, I smash Di'd away from him. O.o
I just got the replay today. But maybe I did...hmm.

Also, the spiking F-air for Wolf was found a long time ago, and quite a few people from the WBR believe it spikes on the last frame of the hitbox. But I guess even they can be wrong, too. =P
 

ElPadrino

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
166
Well, at that % it might as well been DI.

If someone could get this spiking effect while in the air then we could see if it's DI or a real spike.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
BRoomer
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Might be DI, as everyone else said, but good to see nonetheless.

Still not worth testing though, wayy too inconsistent :(

:059:
 

Vista

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
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I thought impossible smash DI meant you can't DI moves that hit you upward into the ground for a tech
 

MidnightAsaph

Smash Lord
Joined
May 30, 2008
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Bloomington, MN
Since when was it DI? I'd like to see testing, just for "I told you so," sake.

I had a replay once, but I deleted all my replays, forgetting I had it.

But the bottom line is that it's completely useless. It shouldn't be looked into, unless the player is inhuman and knows stuff.
 

Vista

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
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Yeah, there's a rule in smash DI that you can't DI a move into the ground to cause a collision, or something like that. Otherwise you'd be able to SDI a Snake Utilt into the ground and tech
 

JCav

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
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no its not DI, ive done it twice to memory and ive heard its the last frame of the hitbox has to hit
 

castorpollux

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
2,502
yeah i've seen thsi before but enver been able to record it.

Assault, do you think u can send the original file to me over AIM or something? I wanna see it through videodub
 

Captain Sa10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
390
1. This is not DI

2. Yes this is a spike

3. The hitbox for the actual spike is almost completely impossible having an odd of 1 in about 1000 chances of actually connecting with the spike.


ending frame of attack-13

frame time for spike-12.95 (basically right before the ending hitbox)

fastfalling to spike is impossible simply because wolf has increased frames and the actual hitbox requried to connect for the spike is covered by the stage.

To make it simple, during the ending point of the arc that is produced during the fair at the ending tip of his claw is when you can actually connect with the spike, and the likely hood of that is slim since the claw is almost invisible to the naked eye.

Glad to see a video up of it though. Took months for several wolf players to actually recreate it in order to show evidence of the spike. Simply but, "It's roys spike that everyone wants to do but can't because doing it is nearly impossible".
 

AssaultX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
156
Location
Washington
yeah i've seen thsi before but enver been able to record it.

Assault, do you think u can send the original file to me over AIM or something? I wanna see it through videodub
I can try, but I don't use my AIM anymore, so I'll just send it through Yahoo mail with the file attached, would that work?
 

sniperworm

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
520
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Pearl City, HI
Yeah, there's a rule in smash DI that you can't DI a move into the ground to cause a collision, or something like that. Otherwise you'd be able to SDI a Snake Utilt into the ground and tech
Isn't God DI exactly what you're saying isn't possible?


GOD DI: Knockback Inversion and other Epic DI


I'm not going to say I discovered GDI. But I'm definitely the only person who's really looked into it. I would say I found it but some a****** from the tactical boards would probably flame me.

Regardless, people have been asking me about it... in ever growing numbers, so in an attempt to clear things up...


God DI ( it'll make your opponent s*** their pants)
-Its awesome.


What is God DI?
-God DI is the term I have used for an advanced form of directional influence that results in total knockback inversion. In other words, instead of going up, you go down. You can in some cases tech the hit, and in others you cannot but it doesn't matter. I'll go into this more later.

GDI can save your a**. If and when you miss a rest or it doesn't KO (and I had a pikachu survive rest at over 100% on Corneria) GDI is a godsend.

GDI vs. Lucas's Up-smash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3_MGqugkuE&feature=channel_page
GDI vs. Zelda's F-smash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GC9x0J2Mw&feature=channel


Are you going to talk about physics now? How does GDI work?

-Yes. GDI utilizes multiple double stick DIs in a specific pattern very quickly and precisely. Or just double stick DIing downish (varies by move) like a madman. The exact mechanics of it are a little confusing but... you basically have to get the final knockback hit with a doublestick downwards DI. Position definitely matters as well, though I don't know exactly why it seems to only work if you moving under the hitbox... eh.

When you GDI if you hit the ground during hitstun, as is seen in the Lucas vid, in which case you can't tech, but the opponent has no followup option. Otherwise you can tech as normal, as seen in the Zelda vid.


Moves that can be (consciously) GDI'd must:

1. Either have multiple hits, cinematic hitlag, or both.
2. They must have some degree of vertical knockback.
3. Either you must be at a certain % or they first hits must have set knockback.
4. If their is a pull effect it must be possible to escape it. This makes some GDI spacing dependent (Zelda's up-smash probably fits this category).
5. You can't remain grounded. This is an absolute requirement. Note... Multihit moves will tap you up.
6. More will be added as I think of stuff

It is unknown whether this could work on any type of throw.


List of moves compatible:

Confirmed, Confirmed but method underdeveloped, theoretically possible, maybe "shrug". Moves that can be escaped in a better way won't be listed. I'll add more I promise :)
*Jiggs must be airborne at the time of impact

Bowser: F-smash

Captain Falcon: Up smash, Pawnch*, Sweetspotted Knee*

Diddy Kong: better options vs. all of these. That said, F-smash, Up-smash

DK: F-smash*, Up-Smash*

Falco: D-smash*

Fox: D-smash*

Game and Watch: f-smash*, b-air, n-air, Judgment 9

Ganon: Pawnch*

Lucas: Up-smash, d-smash

Pit: F-smash second hit*, Up-Smash, n-air, up-air
-note: the f-smash GDI is confusing... if you get hit by the first hit and are grounded, it knocks you upwards too much for you to GDI. If you get hit by the first and are airborne you can escape without GDI. You only really have to do this if you get hit with the second.

Rob: F-smash*, n-air*

Sheik: F-smash, Up-smash

Zelda: Jab, F-smash, Up-smash, n-air, f-air*, b-air*.

ZSS: f-air, side-b


Other Epic DIs


1. DI to the side and tech into the stage to survive a spike.
2. DI and SDI down after a hit with horizontal knockback if you are getting hit down a slight slope and tech. Snazzy.
3. SDI into rest. uh, I say a lot about that elsewhere.
4. Horizontal knockback inversion. Good vs. diddy's f-smash and Snake's f-tilt. Hard to do on purpose but very useful for surviving powerful hits if you are near the ledge on one end of the stage.
 

AssaultX

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
156
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Washington
God DI looks like really fun stuff to master. This could be the answer to the F-air spike.
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
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Playing melee and smash ultimate
I'll have to talk to veril, but until I see "God DI" work on a move high in the air, I'm gonna call BS. Vertical knockback inversion is theoretically impossible in smash bros. However, performing SDI that overcomes the initial launch frame is possible, which I believe is what is happening here. At the height the wolf used fair, it would still be feasible (although radical) to perform SDIs such to impact the ground on the first frame of knockback.

Horizontal knockback inversion is also theoretically impossible. What is possible is to SDI the initial hits of a multihit attack to hit you into the reverse hitbox of the final hit, which would give the appearance of "horizontal knockback inversion."

The "direction" rule on teching only seems to apply to wall collisions, as there are plenty of moves that are techable onstage, despite having a positive launch angle.
 

Vista

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
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It's changed since Melee, I know the Impossible DI rule was in effect in Melee
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
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Yeah, I'm also convinced it has to be some form of DI. People have been "spiked" by single hit utilts many times before, what other explanation could there be?

:059:
 

Emo^Wolf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
332
Location
Naples
i think its just something randomm.. that can haappen again but like everyone is saying smash di? still would be sick if we found a way to do it whenever lol this kinda looks like luigis Dair that sometimes it spikes?? idk bt thats just me
 
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