Support the Jax used to be a real tryhard strategy in serious competitions. Nothing like trying to kill a Jax getting supercharged by Nunu + Morgana + Janna + Soraka. **** black shield yo.
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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!
- Thread starter JTB
- Start date
S l o X
Smash Champion
what's the best heal compz? sounds like fun.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
How's about a tryn with guardian angel with zilean, kayle, shen, and anivia? He will NEVER die lol. Also has anyone tried double jungling yet? It ****ing *****
when I do it, we like to run Nidalee top, Karma mid, Taric + Sona bot, and Warwick in the jungle.
not really? I dunno what you even mean by that, the jungle is less profitable than a lane, so trying to add in a support to make the jungle safer isn't worth it. especially when there are plenty of characters who can jungle by themselves just fine.
closest thing would be a roaming strat where you run 3 solos, 1 jungle and 1 roamer, which used to be the norm. It was good, but it's really hard to 1v2 vs. Ranged AD + Support, and you usually lose the game at bot lane even if your roamer succeeds in ****ing over the other lanes and jungle.
What about Yorick?How's about a tryn with guardian angel with zilean, kayle, shen, and anivia? He will NEVER die lol. Also has anyone tried double jungling yet? It ****ing *****
He tends to solo because he wants the farm and likes to gank a lot, but we've done bot lane with AD Sona / Support Janna on many occasions and it works really well. However, AD Sona is much better at dueling/kiting than teamfighting in the laning phase so it's simply not as effective.
AD Sona is all about early game and late game. Level 1 she wins pretty much every trade in the game and harasses like none other levels 2-9. She falls off mid game as people build armor but comes back later once you complete your build. In literally 90% of the games I've seen him play in, Hozz gets first blood.
There are champs that could manage, but if the enemy picks aggressive support w/ a strong early game carry, it's only a matter of time until that solo bot loses the lane and/or gets killed a bunch.
yea, like, even the immovable object type guys who can farm at a big range like Cho, Maokai, Gragas, Jarman... they all get COMPLETELY ruined by a halfway decent support + carry.
Hm. Who are some champs that could pull it off?
A tanky/regen Heimer comes to mind.
Are there really no champs that can turret camp and successfuly hold off a dive whether they have solid defense or extremely fast minion clearing?
A tanky/regen Heimer comes to mind.
Are there really no champs that can turret camp and successfuly hold off a dive whether they have solid defense or extremely fast minion clearing?
turret camping won't get you far. they'll just zone you out of xp range and at that point, your team might as well be playing a 4v5. you need a character that can both blow up creep waves when the AD + Support pushes and sustain hard enough off the tower to not get zoned out of XP range.Hm. Who are some champs that could pull it off?
A tanky/regen Heimer comes to mind.
Are there really no champs that can turret camp and successfuly hold off a dive whether they have solid defense or extremely fast minion clearing?
The best bets IMO are Sion and Karma, but the early levels are just so damn tricky to get to the point where your shield burst is scary enough to give you some lane control.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
What he said. Absolutely EVERYONE plays this game.
Hrm. I feel like Jungle w/Support is worth exploring. Like it could:
- Open up new champs to jungle
- Allow junglers to build toward their main gear faster
- Provide really really strong ganks
- Counter jungle like a boss and prevent counter Jungling
- More control over buffs; maybe Dragon
But yea. This would all be dependent based on if a champ could successfully defend bot well. Perhaps swapping bot with the jungler could help.
Theory thinking.
- Open up new champs to jungle
- Allow junglers to build toward their main gear faster
- Provide really really strong ganks
- Counter jungle like a boss and prevent counter Jungling
- More control over buffs; maybe Dragon
But yea. This would all be dependent based on if a champ could successfully defend bot well. Perhaps swapping bot with the jungler could help.
Theory thinking.
I feel like you're not listening though. There just isn't enough farm in the jungle for committing 2 people to the jungle in the interest of getting 1 person farmed. Lanes are just better for this. Assuming you get to free farm the jungle and the opposing team gets to free farm bot lane, their team will get ahead.Hrm. I feel like Jungle w/Support is worth exploring. Like it could:
- Open up new champs to jungle
- Allow junglers to build toward their main gear faster
- Provide really really strong ganks
- Counter jungle like a boss and prevent counter Jungling
- More control over buffs; maybe Dragon
But yea. This would all be dependent based on if a champ could successfully defend bot well. Perhaps swapping bot with the jungler could help.
Theory thinking.
But doesn't denying the enemy jungler + providing possibly guaranteed ganks on top/mid offset bot?
My guess is that bot or other lanes may have to back off their lanes to support a solo jungler getting CJed.
My guess is that bot or other lanes may have to back off their lanes to support a solo jungler getting CJed.
What you are basically talking about is double jungle. There are competitive teams trying this out in scrims once in a while but far from often. People are afraid to risk something they haven't practised regularly in a tourney setting. You may see a few teams do what you are describing in the future when they are up a game in a bo3.Hrm. I feel like Jungle w/Support is worth exploring. Like it could:
- Open up new champs to jungle
- Allow junglers to build toward their main gear faster
- Provide really really strong ganks
- Counter jungle like a boss and prevent counter Jungling
- More control over buffs; maybe Dragon
But yea. This would all be dependent based on if a champ could successfully defend bot well. Perhaps swapping bot with the jungler could help.
Theory thinking.
That's what I meant. Tormented Soil + Black Shield + her passive seems like she could farm and keep them off the turret fine, especially when she hits 6. Would still be hard though and probably beatable some way she just seems to me like she would be the best at it.
If you know they're going to double jungle and Morgana is going to be the bot solo, why not run something to utterly deny her?
Clearly everybody in this thread has tons of tourney exp with double jungle so what lanes would go where and how to CP or not is totally known. Oh, wait, no it isn't.
Wave⁂
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 11,870
How ?
uhhh, who cares? ranged AD + Support is enough to zone morg after she casts 1 tormented soil. sure, she can black shield, la di ****ing da, how does that help vs. ranged AD's damage output?
I'm guessing the same way you'd know to ban certain champions against certain teams based on what they've been known to play previously, or clues in the champ pick section, like if you see three strong solos and no support, or something.
Alternately if you don't see obvious signs in either teamcomp or the actual players you're against, you don't pick such an obvious CP and get wrecked for it.
EDIT: Also, what Mogwai said.
If the AD/support just sit in the bush and dont last hit at all, they still win by default because they level up and if you try you die.
Double posting is a serious crime I know, but this is a separate idea.
Is there a reason that running double CV one support bot one support top to deny the jungler access to your jungle / ganks and top lane exp isn't ever done?
What jungler can't top lane solo?
Oh wait. None of them can't top lane solo, except maybe shaco.
S l o X
Smash Champion
watching tsm house tour and i want to kill myself.
i never realized how annoying reginald was.
i never realized how annoying reginald was.
voorhese
Smash Master
Holy ****.
We surrendered at 20, and the other team surrendered right after us and we won. It showed our nexus blowing up, and then went to their nexus blowing up, was hilarious.
We surrendered at 20, and the other team surrendered right after us and we won. It showed our nexus blowing up, and then went to their nexus blowing up, was hilarious.
I run dblades on Nocturne, and I would say on a char like Riven, early dorans will actually equate to a pretty fast jungle. She, along with most characters who have AD scaling AOE madreds-esque procs are beast junglers without wiggles and are completely perfect to not run the item due to how prevalent wiggles is as a laner item atm (I would say 75% of games bot and/or top have wiggles). Dragon and buffs are really the only thing you'll be doing slower without wiggles (buffs are arguable).
I'm not saying it's slow, but it will never be as fast as proccing Wriggles.
You aren't building attack speed ever though and it procs as a 1/5 thing. As in, equating to 100 bonus magic damage per auto attack.
Riven can do '110 bonus physical damage' in aoe, 3 times in one skill (@ 9). The use of those skills proc 3 auto attacks to be dealing a lot more damage as well.
I guess when you consider Riven's case, that is, an ad scaling health shield, armor stats on wiggles +18% life steal is likely to be more durable than 3 doran's blades.
Going a doran's path however on characters like Nocturne, equates to a faster level 6 than you would get trying to build wiggles (unless you start long sword, then they're somewhat comparable).
All I'm saying is, that characters with aoe damage procs don't really need wiggles at all and I really don't notice the difference in jungle speeds (doing wraiths, wolves and minis are definitely faster than relying on madreds procs)
Riven can do '110 bonus physical damage' in aoe, 3 times in one skill (@ 9). The use of those skills proc 3 auto attacks to be dealing a lot more damage as well.
I guess when you consider Riven's case, that is, an ad scaling health shield, armor stats on wiggles +18% life steal is likely to be more durable than 3 doran's blades.
Going a doran's path however on characters like Nocturne, equates to a faster level 6 than you would get trying to build wiggles (unless you start long sword, then they're somewhat comparable).
All I'm saying is, that characters with aoe damage procs don't really need wiggles at all and I really don't notice the difference in jungle speeds (doing wraiths, wolves and minis are definitely faster than relying on madreds procs)
Her Q is on a 13 second CD, and if you want to get from camp to camp at maximum speed (also relates to clear speed) you may be using it for movement and not have all three hits for the camps themselves.
Not to mention more sustain and utility via free wards is never a bad thing anyway.
Either way, for Tom and TKbro/DanGR anyone else interested, I mathed out the difference between my Riven build and Westrice's and it amounts to:
2 less bonus AD and 13% less lifesteal(assuming BT is fully stacked) in exchange for slow on Phage (more auto attacks), wards form Wriggle's (and chance for procs on big objectives or stealing enemy's stuff), about 9 more armor, 8 less MR, 225 more constant health (GA gives the 750 on Revive every 5 minutes), and 300 health shield from Hexdrinker every minute. Cost is about 500 more gold for my build (less if you subtract the ward costs).
Not to mention more sustain and utility via free wards is never a bad thing anyway.
Either way, for Tom and TKbro/DanGR anyone else interested, I mathed out the difference between my Riven build and Westrice's and it amounts to:
2 less bonus AD and 13% less lifesteal(assuming BT is fully stacked) in exchange for slow on Phage (more auto attacks), wards form Wriggle's (and chance for procs on big objectives or stealing enemy's stuff), about 9 more armor, 8 less MR, 225 more constant health (GA gives the 750 on Revive every 5 minutes), and 300 health shield from Hexdrinker every minute. Cost is about 500 more gold for my build (less if you subtract the ward costs).
Zero_Gamer
Smash Master
Is it me or would things be so much funner if you weren't always forced to have a support and jungler?
PsychoMidget
Smash Lord
run blitzstar if you're forced to support or jungle!!!!!! :DDDDDDDDD