Gravity Mod / Brawl+ Competitive Code Suggestions and Analysis

[K1T3]

Gravity Modification

Advantages of Gravity Mods (different gravity mod will offer varying results)

- The game is faster paced
- Semi combos are more possible
- Teching actually has a purpose and is even needed
- Edge guarding becomes important again (even for non MK characters), and there is actually a high risk/gain for attempting it now
- Many "bad" characters become fairly usable
- Ledge camping becomes more risky
- You can't just keep DI/air dodging to recover as you'll fall much further with each air dodge and DI alone can't get you back now

Disadvantages (depend on level of mod)
- characters that could normally perfectly auto cancel now may not be able to (this is fixed by L-canceling)
- Sonic's up B is nerfed (but is helped with the directional air dodge)
- Upwards kills are harder to get
- Bowser's recovery is worse
- All recoveries are worse to an extent (none I believe, even at my highest recommended setting, are so bad that the character becomes terrible, also these worse recoveries lead to some of the advantages listed above)

Damage Modifiers

It is suggested that an appropriate dmg modifier be coupled with any gravity modifier
Effects:
- balances Falco as it will slightly decrease his chain throw (increased gravity increases the effectiveness of his chain throw to spike and his double laser)
- keeps kill percents off the top normal
- allows characters to be knocked off the stage a little easier and lends to the slightly greater emphasis on edge guarding
- characters in general die a little faster (this is needed as games are way too long even with 3 stock)

Levels of Gravity Modification

1.25x mod (w/ 1.1x dmg mod)
- most appropriate setting for shuffling out of the three as it lets you get to the ground the quickest
- greatest increase to game pace
- characters games are changed from SH double aerials to full hop double aerials
- some recovers are noticeably worse (ie. Sonic, Bowser)
- Snake can't full jump and complete a Nair

1.15x mod (w/ 1.05x - 1.1x dmg mod, needs testing)
- double aerials like Marths double Fair, TL's and Diddy's double Bair are still doable at this setting, some characters games are still switched to full jump double aerials (ie. DK)
- still somewhat worse recoveries but much better than 1.25x gravity
- decent for shuffles, still increases the pace of the game just not to the extent of 1.25
- Snake still can't full jump Nair

1.05x mod (w/ 1.025x dmg mod)
- Almost no characters major gameplay is affected
- The only character I've seen is DDD cannot SH double Bair, but now can easily SH Fair/Bair to waveland
- All other characters can still SH or FH double aerial as they could normally (that I have seen) Snake can even still FH Nair
- Though small it still allows characters to get to the ground a bit quicker which will at least a little bit allow more combo potential from characters like Captain Falcon and other lower tier characters
- Recoveries are very slightly worse. This is good as getting back to the stage will at least be a tiny bit harder (see point under advantages of gravity mods) Sonic's and Bowers recoveries do not really suffer with this modifier

I cannot say which modifier is the best as each has it's own merits and flaws, but at the very least, even if you don't like the idea of gravity mods, I would still push for at least the 1.05x modifier.
I would also appreciate others comments/input/testing/ideas as to what is a good modifier and why. Please use logical arguments and not simply I DON'T LIKE IT /CRY.


Melee air dodge
- reduces characters to a single air dodge, but in exchange for letting you air dodge in a direction. This has multiple implications.

Advantages
- Allows wavedashing which makes the game faster/more fun and adds depth in having better control of your character, being able to space much better and more approach and retreat options.
- Gives characters more options for recovery. One could now airdodge up and grab the edge which would assist in the recovery in high gravity mode.
- Ledge hop wavelanding is also another possibility for getting back from the ledge

Disadvantages
- You can accidentally suicide by airdodging off the stage (but with a gravity mod even if you airdodge with normal brawl airdodge it would be like suiciding since you fall further so you really don't lose a whole lot here)
- You can only air dodge once so getting down back to the ground would be harder than before (This just means you have to actually be smart about when to use your air dodge now and not simply spam it, in other words it adds mind games =P, also again with a gravity mod you will descend more quickly so getting to the ground will be easier)

L Cancel
- with a timed press of L/R/Z one may cut the lag of landing any aerial still in it's animation in half

Advantages
- allows a solution to messed up auto cancels due to gravity mods
- allows characters to do attacks at any height without fear of missing the auto cancel timing (provided you have the skill to L-cancel)
- works well with grav mods to allow greater possibility of stringing attacks together and performing combos
- allows greater control of characters, greater character movement, more seamless play, and overall faster and more fun play
- adds lots of depth to the game
- allows lower tier characters many more options and the chance to be playable in competitive play

Disadvantages
- could be said that the designers when balancing the game did not intend for there to be a way to reduce lag (the balance is kept though as all lag is only halved so slow powerful attacks will still have a decent amount of lag compared to fast weak attacks, and the option is open to all characters)

If you would like an explanation of why L canceling over S canceling I have written up quite a bit on it and it would not be too difficult to find and I can add a section in if people feel it is needed. It basically came down to L canceling added a lot more to the game and allowed it to stay balanced much better than did S canceling.

Hit Stun
- still no perfect code for it yet
- helps so you don't accidentally dodge and die off the stage when trying to tech
- allows more combos
- speeds up game play, makes it more seamless, makes it more fun/exciting

No Tripping
- allows characters to not randomly trip

Infinite Replay Time
- allows replays to be saved on games of any length
- not really a competative code but nice


Possible Competitive Code Ideas
- Increased Fall Speed – this code would allow increased fall speed without a change in jump or up B heights, thus would allow almost all of the positive effects of a gravity mod without most of the somewhat negative effects
- Shield During Dash Animation - can open up many avenues of approach and help brawl to not be so campy and become more aggressive and approach oriented, make brawl less slow
- Applicable Dash Dance – allows similar things as wavedashing, more options, better spacing, more avenues to attack and retreat, more depth, etc
- Slightly Greater Shield Stun – this can help to prevent so much shield camping, can balance and allow shielding during a dash animation so it won't be too good, will speed up the pace of the game as there will be less camping (if they do camp with the shield lag they will be punished), etc.
- Grapple Anywhere – a code to allow grapples to grab any part of the stage (though I doubt this code is possible)

Let me know if there is a problem with anything I have proposed or any ideas that you have of your own so that I can update this post. Please present any arguments or new suggestions logically and with reason behind your thought, I have no care for completely subjective opinionated views without any evidence (real or theoretical) backing them up. I do appreciate new information and ideas though.

I would like to suggest please give all of these codes a try before making a judgment on any of them. If you wish to bash them without even play testing them to see how they work for a moderate period of time then please comeback again once you have tried it and preferably have a more open mind.

 

[Mocha19]

My friends and I actually tried this on one of our wiis. It was pretty nifty and kinda fun, but we all believed that High Grav mode was too fast. It was like the characters were in metal form. We don't have the l-cancel hack, but we do have s-cancel, which is almost the same thing. I say maybe if they made more hacks for 1.5 Brawl speed and dash dancing, then it'd be more like Melee in the sense that the game would be fast and it would flow more smoothly. That's just my opinion though. I like regular Brawl better, but the fact that everyone's finding cool ways to mess around with it is pretty cool too.

Edit: Doing short hopped aerials seemed weird too. I couldn't use Zelda's double bair to save my life, but that is high gravity though.

Hitstun would be nice too.

 

[K1T3]

Yeah it's mainly just for fun. I know it won't be used in tournies anywhere but if it is a good way to play it would be nice if there was a small community of other players out that that you could play/discuss it's meta game with.

Did you play with the increase speed mode(lightning?) or the increased gravity mode? The increased speed mode I agree is way too fast. If you have played melee semi recently the high gravity mode provides about the same level of fall speed as in melee and I do no think that that level of fall speed is too fast though I could see that if you've only played brawl recently that you could see it that way.

Yeah a lot of short hop double airs don't really work in high grav, but full hop doubles do and I think the speed makes it work. But also with the high grav, L cancel and fast falling you should be able to string together shorthoped single attacks a little bit.

There is a little bit of hitstun in the game, I am still iffy as to whether adding more would be good for the game or not, it might make it too combo heavy. With being reduced to one punishable airdodge I think the current hitstun physics might be okay... but I need to try it of course.

 

[MBlaze]

Woah, high gravity sounds like a bad idea then, sorry to say. Maybe we'll hit some luck on the hitstun reasearch.

 

[K1T3]

Woah, high gravity sounds like a bad idea then, sorry to say. Maybe we'll hit some luck on the hitstun reasearch.

Why does it sound like a bad idea?

 

[Thossos]

This is just a guess, but wouldn't DDD's edge game be destroyed?
He falls so fast already...

 

[Mocha19]

Hmm.. maybe we did have super speed on.. I wasn't really sure because my friends left the wii on when I returned from a college event. I actually played by myself, so I actually don't know. I can look into it, though.

Maybe an extra one or two frames of hitstun couldn't hurt. I guess that's what the guys are working on, but we're not too worried about. Our main want is the dash dancing. That was cool.

If the project goes well, I think it'll be fun. At least in our apartment anyway. I'm the only one out of four roommates that still like regular Brawl. Haha.

 

[MBlaze]

Why does it sound like a bad idea?

It makes U smashes, tilts and areals useless it seems..

 

[Mocha19]

This is just a guess, but wouldn't DDD's edge game be destroyed?
He falls so fast already...

Probably, but all in all I'd say give the hackers more time to do some trial and errors. I'm pretty sure it'll be a nice project when it starts to become finished.

 

[Mocha19]

It makes U smashes, tilts and areals useless it seems..

Actually it helps with juggles quite a bit. At least in my case anyway. Instead of getting 2 free up smashes at the start of a stock with Zelda, I get 3 now. And the list goes on with others. It takes some time to get used to, but it's kinda cool.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

All momentum based recoveries get kicked in the ***.

This includes the Links, Yoshi, and some other dudes...

Yoshi still can recover though since his DJ is soo potent.


Heavy brawl is screwed up because of what it does to recoveries.

Link's recovery is already crap...heavy brawl takes that crap, puts it in a furnace, takes the ashes feeds them to a mule, takes the new crap and spreads it on a fat chick, and then has said fat chick walk around in public and then have her trip and fall on you.
It sucks!!!!

 

[K1T3]

This is just a guess, but wouldn't DDD's edge game be destroyed?
He falls so fast already...

Nope DDD is still fine. Everyones recovery is worse so his is still fine =) But I'll play test him some more in a bit to make sure.
Edit: I checked D3 again and his recovery is still quite good.

Hmm.. maybe we did have super speed on.. I wasn't really sure because my friends left the wii on when I returned from a college event. I actually played by myself, so I actually don't know. I can look into it, though.

Maybe an extra one or two frames of hitstun couldn't hurt. I guess that's what the guys are working on, but we're not too worried about. Our main want is the dash dancing. That was cool.

If the project goes well, I think it'll be fun. At least in our apartment anyway. I'm the only one out of four roommates that still like regular Brawl. Haha.

Yeah as long as it doesn't make comboing to easy I think it should be fine. Also I would really really really love it if dash dancing was in.
More than hit stun though I think 1 or 2 frames or shield stun would be a better idea.

It makes U smashes, tilts and areals useless it seems..

Not at all. They actually become better. Tilts can comboing into each other more with the faster fall speed and the opponent must DI out or time their jump properly. Uairs as well would combo better especially with the L cancel added. U smashes can still kill it's just a bit easier to survive them is all since the characters fall faster. I think the tilts/uairs are upped a bit and the usmash is decreased a bit so it balances.

All momentum based recoveries get kicked in the ***.

This includes the Links, Yoshi, and some other dudes...

Yoshi still can recover though since his DJ is soo potent.


Heavy brawl is screwed up because of what it does to recoveries.

Link's recovery is already crap...heavy brawl takes that crap, puts it in a furnace, takes the ashes feeds them to a mule, takes the new crap and spreads it on a fat chick, and then has said fat chick walk around in public and then have her trip and fall on you.
It sucks!!!!

Lol, Nice.

This is part of why I wanted to know if you can still grapple from and airdodge. Links won't be so bad if you can just DI in then airdodge toward the stage and grapple. But either way he's not losing a lot, his recovery wasn't good anyways, if you DI the hit that knocks you out you would probably still be able to recover and if you don't DI it you wouldn't have been able to recover anyways. Also Link would game some quite nice comboability with being able to string shuffled attacks from the combination of High grav, Lcancel, and wavedashing, so he actually becomes much better and more playable. He is also still a good spam character. So think of Falco in melee, simply terrible recovery but on the stage he could camp or beast you just fine.

Yoshi's second jump still gives him a decent recovery. Directional air dodge helps as well...


Edit: seems some people already answered =)

 

[K1T3]

Spoiler

double post...

 

[Revven]

Just use the Gravity modifier codes to find the best gravity you want that doesn't carry the cons of destroying Up Bs. Here, I'll post them.

Gravity modifier (P1)
4A000000 90180F20
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Gravity modifier (P2)
4A000000 90180F7C
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Gravity modifier (P3)
4A000000 90180FD8
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Gravity modifier (P4)
4A000000 90181034
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

What you put in XXX for

0.05 = 3D4CCCCD
0.25 = 3E800000
0.5 = 3F000000
1.0 = 3F800000
1.5 = 3FC00000
2.0 = 40000000
2.5 = 40200000
3.0 = 40400000
3.5 = 40600000
4.0 = 40800000
5.0 = 40A00000
6.0 = 40C00000
8.0 = 41000000
10.0 = 41200000
16.0 = 41800000
20.0 = 41A00000
32.0 = 42000000
64.0 = 42800000
100.0 = 42C80000

Of course, this only affects vertical gravity, not horizontal (as far as I know, testing it would be nice).

 

[Mocha19]

Yeah shield stun would be cool too.

They're about to start the project on balancing out the characters I've heard. That would probably also really help the entire project as well. It will indeed take a really long time, but it will most likely be worth it.

 

[K1T3]

I don't think balancing the characters is a good idea until we've estabilished all the different codes and modes we want to be using and then develop a metagame for that set. Else, we won't really know what is imba and needing balancing.

Does anyone know what the high grav mode in the game is set to?
1.5, 2?

If it's already 1.5 in game the codes listed won't be able to change anything as the next lowest is standard. But if it's 2 then I think giving 1.5 a shot might be nice.

 

[MuBa]

We need to warn people not to update the Wii at the moment cuz it prevents people from installing the HBC >=/

 

[K1T3]

Yeah there's a huge warning listed on top of the Homebrew thread.

 

[Stratocaster]

http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/Decimal.html

^^ at this site you can set the code to ANY value using the modifier ^^

Just type in a value you think would be good for multiplying the gravity of brawl in the top bar, press "rounded", and it will spit out the code you need to input in the gravity modifier next to hexadecimal.

I suggest something between 1.1 and 1.4, but even if the gravity is just changed to 1.1, its a good change, gravity should be increased, just not by as much as high gravity mode makes it.

personally I've set my gravity to 1.35, and I think it makes the game sooo much better.

 

[ADHD]

Let's talk about falco on heavy brawl. He can chaingrab every character on this mode, and his regular chaingrab-able characters get chained to 60 and can still be spiked. His SHDL is ridiculously good.

Diddy's banana game, is 100 times better. He's broken also, characters are forced to stay on the ground much more often, and since he handles the nanerz better than anyone else, he's instantly good since people are glued to the ground.

Dedede's chaingrab gets even better, it's harder for alot of characters to get back on the stage in heavy brawl, so he can just chaingrab them offstage and then gimp them with maybe 2-3 back airs. Broken.

 

[K1T3]

http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/Decimal.html

^^ at this site you can set the code to ANY value using the modifier ^^

Just type in a value you think would be good for multiplying the gravity of brawl in the top bar, press "rounded", and it will spit out the code you need to input in the gravity modifier next to hexadecimal.

I suggest something between 1.1 and 1.4, but even if the gravity is just changed to 1.1, its a good change, gravity should be increased, just not by as much as high gravity mode makes it.

personally I've set my gravity to 1.35, and I think it makes the game sooo much better.

Thanks a lot =) Yeah I can't say for sure the in game high gavity would be the best. I need to try out different multipliers, but it does seem to need some increasing

Let's talk about falco on heavy brawl. He can chaingrab every character on this mode, and his regular chaingrab-able characters get chained to 60 and can still be spiked. His SHDL is ridiculously good.

Diddy's banana game, is 100 times better. He's broken also, characters are forced to stay on the ground much more often, and since he handles the nanerz better than anyone else, he's instantly good since people are glued to the ground.

Dedede's chaingrab gets even better, it's harder for alot of characters to get back on the stage in heavy brawl, so he can just chaingrab them offstage and then gimp them with maybe 2-3 back airs. Broken.

.....I hate how they made this game with all it's infinites and chaingrabs that can't even be DI'd and thus are truely impossible to escape from....

But I can say this in regards to them. In melee IC's infinte was never banned. He could infinte every character pretty much from 0 to death with no possible escape. What was said was get better and don't get grabbed. Neither chracter you mentioned can 0-death with their chaingrab. With wavedashing people will be able to space again. With L canceling I'm hoping it allows, like it does in melee for you to tap, roll, spotdodge, jump, other option, before they can grab you, thus preventing a grab. Up until now in brawl grabs have been fairly easy to get off due to lack of ability to easily space and no L canceling, so with the Brawl+ codes it should help people get around this.

I should also mention falco might need that extra chaingrab ability as his recovery would be worse. Same for D3.

As far as Diddy's bananas, they're far from broken. Any character can now simply wavedash over a banana and pick it up from what I understand.

 

[Someone7]

Disadvantages
You can accidentally suicide by airdodging off the stage (but in high grav mode even if you airdodge with normal brawl airdodge it would be like suiciding so you really don't lose a whole lot here, unless it's a botched wavedash by the edge =P)

It's actually really hard to kill yourself like this in Brawl+, as the air dodge doesn't extend much beyond the auto sweetspot radius.

Edit: just tried to do it on purpose, basically you only kill yourself with most characters if you don't DI back to the stage.

 

[K1T3]

It's actually really hard to kill yourself like this in Brawl+, as the air dodge doesn't extend much beyond the auto sweetspot radius.

Edit: just tried to do it on purpose, basically you only kill yourself with most characters if you don't DI back to the stage.

Cool thx.
Fixed.
Glad to know that doesn't happen anymore =)

 

[Stratocaster]

But I can say this in regards to them. In melee IC's infinte was never banned. He could infinte every character pretty much from 0 to death with no possible escape. What was said was get better and don't get grabbed. Neither chracter you mentioned can 0-death with their chaingrab. With wavedashing people will be able to space again. With L canceling I'm hoping it allows, like it does in melee for you to tap, roll, spotdodge, jump, other option, before they can grab you, thus preventing a grab. Up until now in brawl grabs have been fairly easy to get off due to lack of ability to easily space and no L canceling, so with the Brawl+ codes it should help people get around this.

I should also mention falco might need that extra chaingrab ability as his recovery would be worse. Same for D3.

As far as Diddy's bananas, they're far from broken. Any character can now simply wavedash over a banana and pick it up from what I understand.

He has a point, Falco may get a buff, but he still wouldn't be broken, besides, one of the codes a lot of Brawl+ fans want is a code to make you in a tumble animation from throws, and therefore able to DI and tech chaingrabs. Falco's SHDL is absolutely EVIL at 1.35 gravity, but I'm pretty sure at about 1.4 its impossible and at 1.25 its not near as fast or broken, but either way, falco a ridiculously good SHL in melee and was still not broken. I do admit though, I think Falco would be top tier in increased gravity brawl.... I tried to pillar with uptilt and dair, and I got it to work at least once, that is uptilt> dair> uptilt registered on the combo counter, and it could be done more with practice. You have to sweetspot the dair now though.

 

[Omis]

I believe high gravity is 5.0 on the modifier.

 

[vanek_pi]

for high gravity i use the 1.25 gravity code.

P1 Gravity Mod(1.25x)
4A000000 90180F20
140000E0 3FA00000
E0000000 80008000

P2 Gravity Mod(1.25x)
4A000000 90180F7C
140000E0 3FA00000
E0000000 80008000

P3 Gravity Mod(1.25x)
4A000000 90180FD8
140000E0 3FA00000
E0000000 80008000

P4 Gravity Mod(1.25x)
4A000000 90181034
140000E0 3FA00000
E0000000 80008000

 

[K1T3]

I believe high gravity is 5.0 on the modifier.

That seems really high... wow

one of the codes a lot of Brawl+ fans want is a code to make you in a tumble animation from throws, and therefore able to DI and tech chaingrabs.

This would make me so very happy =)

That pillar sounds cool too.

for high gravity i use the 1.25 gravity code.

How does that setting work out?

 

[vanek_pi]

its pretty good, i think its like what the TC said. it makes it more like melee. matches go quicker. just play around with it really.

 

[zxeon]

Gravity is not the way to go. It merely forces characters to move faster vertically by pushing them back down. What we need is to speed up thier movement not pull them down with bungie cords.

 

[K1T3]

Gravity is not the way to go. It merely forces characters to move faster vertically by pushing them back down. What we need is to speed up thier movement not pull them down with bungie cords.

Their movement speed is already perfect. From their dash/wavedash speeds and even time to execute an attack all are quite fine already. Increasing them would make things very strange. The reason for brawls brawlness is the great floatiness of the characters in comparison to melees. Adding gravity corrects this.

 

[zxeon]

Their movement speed is already perfect. From their dash/wavedash speeds and even time to execute an attack all are quite fine already. Increasing them would make things very strange. The reason for brawls brawlness is the great floatiness of the characters in comparison to melees. Adding gravity corrects this.

I'm talking about their air speed. Not their ground speed or their attack speed. The only way to solve a problem is to make sure your solution doesn't create problems, and higher gravity creates major problems.

 

[K1T3]

I'm talking about their air speed. Not their ground speed or their attack speed. The only way to solve a problem is to make sure your solution doesn't create problems, and higher gravity creates major problems.

What problems could those be? I listed the advantages vs disadvantages in the first post and it seemed that the advantages far outweighed the disadvantages.

The characters air speed is also fine. It's about the same as it was for melee and 64. The characters just got around by jumping so much faster because they fell quicker which allowed them to reinitiate or change their momentum. The floatiness is the problem. Characters need to fall at a faster rate.

 

[zxeon]

What problems could those be? I listed the advantages vs disadvantages in the first post and it seemed that the advantages far outweighed the disadvantages.

The characters air speed is also fine. It's about the same as it was for melee and 64. The characters just got around by jumping so much faster because they fell quicker which allowed them to reinitiate or change their momentum. The floatiness is the problem. Characters need to fall at a faster rate.

Exactly think bunny hood without the boost to running speed and jump hight not higher gravity. Test it out in training if you can't immediately see my point.

 

[zxeon]

What problems could those be? I listed the advantages vs disadvantages in the first post and it seemed that the advantages far outweighed the disadvantages.

The characters air speed is also fine. It's about the same as it was for melee and 64. The characters just got around by jumping so much faster because they fell quicker which allowed them to reinitiate or change their momentum. The floatiness is the problem. Characters need to fall at a faster rate.

Exactly think bunny hood without the boost to running speed and jump altitude not higher gravity. Test it out in training if you can't immediately see my point.

 

[GimR]

With L-cancelling + wavedashing Heavy mode is amazingly fun.

Snake and Samus are a bit broken though lol.

The thing is, whatever people lose from it being heavier, they also gain other things from it being heavier

 

[K1T3]

With L-cancelling + wavedashing Heavy mode is amazingly fun.

Snake and Samus are a bit broken though lol.

The thing is, whatever people lose from it being heavier, they also gain other things from it being heavier

I can't wait to try this. I might just rent TP... I don't know if I can wait to borrow it from someone

Exactly think bunny hood without the boost to running speed and jump altitude not higher gravity. Test it out in training if you can't immediately see my point.

I know what you mean, but the only thing beside fall speed that increased gravity changes is that up kills are a bit harder and I've already explained how that balances with the things gained from it...

 

[K1T3]

I got Brawl Player's Cut and have been trying it out. This game is freakin sweet!
I'm using the 1.25 gravity setting right now and it's feeling pretty good. I'm going to do more play testing before thinking about deciding which setting is best. I still believe there should be at least some gravity increase though.

Another disadvantage I've noticed, Snake cannot complete his nair within his full hop. I do not think that will detract from him much though. He can still complete dair. Not to mention the L canceling and spacing from wavedashing make him pretty pimp.

I think if people can they should also do some play testing with the different gravity settings. I think it would be nice if the community could agree on a specific settings as standard to use for Player's Cut.

I'm disliking brawls buffer system at the moment though... it keeps doing wavedash turn around or buffering attacks which stop my combo, etc. Also this lack of analog L/R is really annoying... (I should mention all my current testing is being done in training mode)

I'll update first post later with updates, and changing it from high grav mode appealing to the community for the inclusion of a standard higher grav modifier in Player's Cut.

Ganon seems about back up to his melee par.
Falcon, OMG falcon is freakin amazing. Shorthop Knee works again! He can semi combo across the stage and has at least his melee edge gaurding abilities, this is great! I just up threw to uair to nair to uair to follow off the stage and knee and still made it back.

Alright I'ma stop with these character opinion things. Every single character feels like a freakin monster to me! Man I'm loving this game soooo much now <3

 

[err]

As far as Diddy's bananas, they're far from broken. Any character can now simply wavedash over a banana and pick it up from what I understand.

wavedash over it? hello, wavedash into it when they throw it at you. problem solved

(turnips,nanerz,bombs = nerfed)


(edit haha this didn't make sense the first time..)

 

[Problem2]

Guys. I've been playing high gravity with my friend for months now (seriously, we are addicted to it).
The trick to making it better is changing the damage ratio to 1.1. It returns the vertical power back to normal
makes many of the wimpy horizontal strikes decent (Samus Charge Shot, Missiles, the Knee, etc).

Falco's d-throw stops chaining but instead allows combos into aerials often times.
Luigi's d-throw also chains into aerials.
C. Falcon can combo n-air into d-throw into u-air into knee (this may be because of opponent's bad DI but I've done it before)
MK's mach tornado is unable to rise.
Sonic and Fox are speedy beasts.
And of course, much much more.

If you have the directional air dodging, then recovery shouldn't be a problem. Link can cancel a vertical air dodge into his hookshot, giving him another jump worth in recovery. Sonic can airdodge after up-b allowing him to negate is falling frames and give him even a greater rise. As for Yoshi, air dodging basically substitutes his up-b which wasn't great anyways.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hmm interesting. I will try out high-gravity sometime, I didn't even consider playing that mode with my friends when they came over lol. It should be fun and feel like melee more. But ya, if i remember right, high gravity may have been a little too high, may be a little higher than melee. So I think it's just better if you increase the gravity just by a little.

Im not sure yet as to if we should make a dif version of brawl like melee was, or if it would be right to keep the normal version, but i guess we could have two versions. But when u do mod Brawl into a different version, don't make it exactly like Melee. What I'd like to see is something in the middle... so instead of increasing gravity by 50%, increase it like 25%, and such. Cus if you make it feel like melee... well then it's more just like playing melee, and there should be at least a small difference in the gameplay that you can notice.

Well anyways thx for working on this, (@ the people making a new version of brawl) and gj so far