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Green Ace makes a MU thread

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Green_Ace

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As you may know I usually don't post here often, but I decided that it would be best if I included what my opinion of what yoshi's matchups are. For the most part, I do believe this to be accurate, but I comments/criticism are welcome as long as they aren't baseless and unsupported by logic.

Since I'm lazy, to start I'll only be posting what I believe the MU ratio to be, and a brief statement of what I think of it.

Meta Knight/ 40:60- We all know the days of "omg yoshi counters MK" is long gone, and that at a high competitive level MK cuts off a tun of yoshi's options, and is just obviously the better character all-around. Our grab release doesn't amount to much...

Snake/ 40:60- Snake is a pain to fight. He never dies, hits hard, and has a ton of ways to cut off yoshi's options. At least if we catch him below the stage line while he's trying to recover it's an easy fair spike, and that his size makes him a fairly easy target of egg lay. Either way, the MU is still a big pain... Potentially even 35:65

Wario/ 45:55- We have the infinite, but wario has all the tools to not get grabbed, and beats yoshi pretty badly everywhere else. I'd even say this MU is potentially 40:60.

Falco/ 40:60- Potentially 35:65 or worse, this MU becomes a lot easier if you learn how to gimp Falco.

Diddy/ 40:60- What good is the grab release chaingrab against Diddy if we're always slipping on banana peels? A good Diddy has a the ability to cut off the majority of yoshi's options.

King Dedede/ 40:60- King Dedede is a big pain who never dies, and fighting a good one can be frustrating. However, I'd go as far to say as the MU could potentially be 45:55.

Marth/ 35:65- Blorf.

Mr. Game and Watch/ 40:60- Honestly this MU is pretty winnable if the yoshi knows it. Although GnW is the better character and eats yoshi alive up close, from afar yoshi does have what it takes to cut off a lot of GnW's approaches thus limiting his options. If you know it well (and for the love of god do NOT go on the offensive) I'd even say at very best for us it's 45:55.

Pikachu/ 45:55- From playing against Anther at SNES I can confidently say this MU is 45:55.

Olimar/ 40:60- It frustrates me how people will still sometimes say it's in yoshi's favor. At a high level, this MU can be HELL as olimar does pretty much everything yoshi does but better, thus making your options minimal. Potentially 35:65 or worse.

Ice Climbers/ Don't get:Grabbed- Yeah, that's all I have to say really. Play really safe.

ROB/ 40:60- After thinking this MU over with Pride, I decided to change this to 40:60. A good ROB can be pretty frustrating to play against, but it's winnable.

Kirby/ 40:60?- I don't have too much to say on this MU. It's either 45:55 or 40:60.

Lucario/ 40:60- Quite possibly 35:65. Very annoying to fight for sure. Blorf.

ZSS/ 50:50- I'm pretty confident that this MU is neutral.

Toon Link/ 35:65- Not only does he outcamp/outprioritize us, but his zair ***** us at a mid-range. TL is NOT a fun MU for any yoshi main at a high level, and at its worst may be 30:70.

Pit/ 45:55- Pit is an odd fight. I don't know why they put this character in the game, seriously. Maybe 40:60 at the very very worst, but probably 45:55.

DK/ 40:60- Potentially 35:65, but most likely 40:60. I think this MU speaks for itself if you've played it at a high level.

Peach/ 45:55- Another odd MU, even though our eggs can disrupt Peach's float game, I'd still call it 45:55, at its very worst 40:60. Peach has more and better options. (I think Praxis would vouch for this).

Luigi/ 50:50- In my opinion this is neutral, but if it had to be one's advantage it'd probably be Luigi's.

Fawks/ 45:55- It feels like fox only has a slight advantage here. For the most part it's fairly neutral, possibly 50:50. If you don't know the MU it can be difficult due to Fox's speed and priority. Also, be very wary of his dair-> usmash, as it kills stupidly early if you aren't careful about it. It gets predictable at higher %'s though.

Wolf/ 40:60- I think this MU has been overrated in the past and really isn't that bad. I think that it can even be 45:55 at best.

Sonic/ Ur2:Sloe- The sonic MU is reeeeeally weird and I find it hard to put an actual ratio on this MU... :confused:

Sheik/ 50:50- Imo this is neutral until proven to me otherwise.

Bowser/ 55:45- An odd MU for us, but none the less odd for Bowser as well. It's in our favor, maybe even as high as 60:40.

Zelda/ 45:55- Honestly, I believe this MU could be worse (40:60 at its worst) but you can only appreciate this ratio if you've played a really good zelda who knows the yoshi MU... which is extraordinarily rare. She can cut off many options and make for a frustrating MU.

Pokemon Trainer/ 55:45- Maybe even 60:40, but I believe that yoshi has the advantage here. None of the pokemon tend to give yoshi too much trouble.

Ike/ 45:55- Maybe even 40:60. Playing a good Ike is annoying and you have to play very safe, maybe to the point of minor frustration. Don't underestimate the jabs, and don't recklessly dash grab.

Lucas/ 55:45- This one's in our favor, maybe even so high as 60:40.

Mario/ 45:55- Most likely 45:45, but could be a neutral 50:50.

Ness/ 45:55- To be entirely honest, Ness is a MU I have very little experience in, but I could imagine it to be 45:55 potentially worse.

Samus/ 35:65? - I don't have too much to say here either, but I know that zair ***** our ****. It could be as good as 40:60 or as bad as 30:70, but I have my doubts about the ladder.

Jigglypuff/ 60:40- This was courtesy of Meta.

Captain Falcon/ 55:45- We can cut off a lot of his options, and he's fairly easy to camp. It's a pretty easy MU. Maybe even 60:40. (Note: This does NOT apply to Ally's CF)

Link/ 55:45- Although Link has a zair, I find this MU not very challenging. Maybe 60:40 at its best. At the very very worst 50:50.

Manondorf/ 75:25- Enough said. This is pretty much a LOL matchup. Maybe 70:30, but I believe 75:25.


The reality is that Yoshi is low tier and is going to have the majority of his battles uphill. I'm being a realist here. That's all I have to say. Comment it as you will, I may update it from time to time. I could've gone more in-depth, but alas... I'm lazy. :chuckle:

 

YoshiIslander77z

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Mario is definitely not 50:50. I can't say much about anything else, but I know it is harder than that.
no u dont argue with green ace what he says is fact =P

but i say after learning how to use mario a bit he has his flaws and fireballz are not as great as they first seem to be get use to it and it makes th mu much easier
 

Sharky

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I think I understand your numbers, but for reference's sake it would be nice to type up what you definie as 40/60, 45/65, etc.

edit: I like that someone other than me thinks that the GW match-up isn't as bad as it's made out to be.
 

Green_Ace

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I think I understand your numbers, but for reference's sake it would be nice to type up what you definie as 40/60, 45/65, etc.

edit: I like that someone other than me thinks that the GW match-up isn't as bad as it's made out to be.
50:50 = Neutral
55:45 = Slight Advantage
60:40 = Advantage
65:35 = Large Advantage
70:30+ = We're a hard counter
45:55 = slight disadvantage
40:60 = disadvantage
35:65 = Large disadvantage
30:70+ = They're a hard counter
 

Delta-cod

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To me, it just seems we're not strong either way. Not many we get ***** MUs, and not many we **** MUs, either. Everything sure looks winnable, it's just an uphill battle all the time. =[
 

Metatitan

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if you define 40/60 as unwinnable, then your ratios are way off, just saying.
Not really. 40:60 means that they have to mess up or you have to outplay them big time to win. The match will be close but you still should lose. Like if a top level peach faced a top level marth, they should both be last stock but the marth should win.
 

Delta-cod

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So...where's Ness?

:005:
LOL!

Not really. 40:60 means that they have to mess up or you have to outplay them big time to win. The match will be close but you still should lose. Like if a top level peach faced a top level marth, they should both be last stock but the marth should win.
You have to outplay them, but not bigtime. I'd put the bigtime more at a 65/70 disadvantage. =/
 

Sharky

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You have to outplay them, but not bigtime. I'd put the bigtime more at a 65/70 disadvantage. =/
this. You definitely need to work hard for a 60/40, but it is still entirely winnable. once you get to 65/35 and beyond you're out of that territory.

BTW Green Ace this is what I was talking about. simply saying "advantage" doesn't really say ****.
 

hadesblade

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After playing a falco offline, and actually being able to chain grab, I don't think it's 35:65.

Also I saw stocky do something weird vs falco, where he would grab them out of their second jump, not chew and just grab release, then edgehog the up b, and it seemed to work everytime he got the edgehog in.
 

Airborne

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After playing a falco offline, and actually being able to chain grab, I don't think it's 35:65.

Also I saw stocky do something weird vs falco, where he would grab them out of their second jump, not chew and just grab release, then edgehog the up b, and it seemed to work everytime he got the edgehog in.
get that ***** to record dat ****; i need help learning how to gimp dem spacies... b/c i suck at gimping...
 
D

Deleted member

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After playing a falco offline, and actually being able to chain grab, I don't think it's 35:65.

Also I saw stocky do something weird vs falco, where he would grab them out of their second jump, not chew and just grab release, then edgehog the up b, and it seemed to work everytime he got the edgehog in.
Thats how I beat larry xD
All day baby, grab gimps.
 

SOVAman

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Ohhhh Green Ace Why???

I mean if your going to contribute to MUs why not contribute to the already existing MU threads?

Writing a characters name a number and a sentence or 2, definably doesn't deserve a thread

We worked hard on getting a universal system we don't need this
 

.Marik

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I'm pretty sure Zamus is 55:45 her favour or worse.

Better range, better projectiles, and can kill and punish better.

I'll read more later.
 

hadesblade

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I'm pretty sure Zamus is 55:45 her favour or worse.

Better range, better projectiles, and can kill and punish better.

I'll read more later.
she is easy to juggle, once her suit peices are gone her projectile is horrible, she can't kill tell extremely high %'s, and we have a cg on her.
 

Gindler

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You can CG ZSS? I must not be buffering a dash or something because I'd eat flip kicks when I'd try it.
 

.Marik

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she is easy to juggle, once her suit peices are gone her projectile is horrible, she can't kill tell extremely high %'s, and we have a cg on her.
The ChainGrab, as Sharky has already stated, is really hard to successfully perform.

Zamus has pretty good range, Dair/Uair/FSmash etc...etc... and her armour pieces, when Zamus has baited, spaced and mindgamed right, can take an entire stock off Yoshi or any other unsuspecting Low-Tier character. It's happened to me before, I find Zamus really hard to fight, providing they don't allow me to approach them.

I'm not saying it's 80:20 her favour or anything, but the matchup is slightly in Zamus's favour, I feel.

The trick is to get close and juggle, but providing Zamus knows how to read Yoshi, this isn't an easy task to accomplish.
 

Metatitan

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The ChainGrab, as Sharky has already stated, is really hard to successfully perform.

Zamus has pretty good range, Dair/Uair/FSmash etc...etc... and her armour pieces, when Zamus has baited, spaced and mindgamed right, can take an entire stock off Yoshi or any other unsuspecting Low-Tier character. It's happened to me before, I find Zamus really hard to fight, providing they don't allow me to approach them.

I'm not saying it's 80:20 her favour or anything, but the matchup is slightly in Zamus's favour, I feel.

The trick is to get close and juggle, but providing Zamus knows how to read Yoshi, this isn't an easy task to accomplish.
Armor pieces are only at the start of the match (yes they are a pain). Dair and F smash are two of her worst moves, why do you think they are good?
 

.Marik

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I never said they were necessarily good, just stating that most of them have adequate range which is exploitable when put to good use.

I'm not a professional on Zamus, I've always found FSmash to be a decent move.

I need to analyze her moveset more...

*Edit* Haha, my bad. I never meant Dair, but rather, DSmash.
 
D

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Approach ZSS similar to olimar, except she has less exploitable grab and a better punish, altho very hard to land on yoshi, in dsmash.

Back air rush down is really hard to beat, the cg is difficult but bait the down b and punish. Not hard.
 

Furbs

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yoshi has a much easier time grabbing wario than most characters........

just sayin'
 

.Marik

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The ChainGrab doesn't even work until around 50%.

Can't Wario simply DI/jump out of it? Maybe my Grabs aren't 100% frame perfect, but it's not impossible to escape.

Anyways, I explained the Zamus vs. Yoshi matchup better in the original thread.

And I find Ganondorf, Squirtle, and Bowser easier to Grab.
 
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