Greninja General Discussion Thread - The Coolest Pokémon Ever Is Now Confirmed!

[FlareHabanero]

I like the red palette swap, it looks very sleek.

 

[NintenRob]

Greninja will be amazing, What do you guys think of the voice? I kinda like it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Greninja will be amazing, What do you guys think of the voice? I kinda like it.

I don't think it should have had Pokemon Speak. Besides that, the voice seems alright.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZLXCbz-MLM&t=2m36s

(Dair sweetspots here, most likely due to hitlag or the bounce back after the hit [though you shouldn't have been able to instantly grab the ledge], but since when have you seen an aerial allow this?)

Dammit, Greninja...stop being so good!

Posted this in the Smash 4 Social.

 

[Amical]

Greninja will be amazing, What do you guys think of the voice? I kinda like it.

Well, it's certainly unique... Different than I expected, but honestly, after hearing it for a while, I think it sounds pretty cool. It's more of an acquired taste.

 

[Tepig2000]

It's weird how I don't post here much. Anyway, found a really funny video. Enjoy:

Greninja will be amazing, What do you guys think of the voice? I kinda like it.

I love it.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Huh.

 

[Amical]

Huh.

Yeah, I saw this, too. Is that really true?
Ha, if so, then that's one heck of a lucky decision on their part.

 

[Tepig2000]

Yeah, I saw this, too. Is that really true?
Ha, if so, then that's one heck of a lucky decision on their part.

It's true. I think this has been posted in a thread in the "Nintendo at E3 2014" section that got closed.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Greninja will be amazing, What do you guys think of the voice? I kinda like it.

Can I get a voice sample?

At the demo, I think Greninja kept on saying "NOOO!" It got really annoying rather quickly.

 

[Tepig2000]

Can I get a voice sample?

At the demo, I think Greninja kept on saying "NOOO!" It got really annoying rather quickly.

You can hear him in this video:

 

[Jaguar360]

He's actually kinda cute-sounding actually! <3 I didn't expect that!

 

[Amical]

You can hear him in this video:

Okay, I love his voice even more now. It's grown on me after hearing him alone.
Actually, it sounds kind of like Stitch from that old Lilo and Stitch show. Ha.

 

[KERO]

So, since it was four in the morning, and I had nothing better to do, I decided to watch some Greninja videos and compare him to Brawl characters. These videos were VG Bootcamp's Moveset video and Clash Tournament's 1v1 matches.

Basically, I just took various characters into Training Mode and performed the same actions as shown in the video (jumping at the moment they jumped, etc.,). This, combined with the fact that this is just one of many builds of the game means it should be taken with a grain of salt... and that there are probably fifty more productive things I could be doing with my life.

So, first of all, while Wolf's full jump height is nowhere near Greninja's, they stay in the air for about the same amount of time after a full hop.

With a full hop+double jump, Greninja stays in the air a bit longer than Sheik and a bit shorter than Fox performing the same action.

Now, I knew Greninja had a great jump height, but I hadn't realized just how great. His full hop seems to be just a bit under Falco's (Falco can land on the BF top platform; it's questionable if Greninja can. Watch this video at 0:30 and 1:25), if not as as high as Falco's (this is making the assumption that the BF in Smash 4 and the BF in Brawl are comparatively the same if the physics of both engines are taken into account).

His airspeed seems to be a bit faster than Falcon's in Brawl (relative to other characters in respective games yadda yadda). In one video, Greninja jumps out from under slightly left of center of the left platform and lands in the middle. Falcon can achieve a similar feat, going a bit farther even, but his fall time is much longer.

Also, it seems that it can be safely assumed that his ground speed is around ZSS/Fox level.

I might try and see if I can't figure out his shorthop/double jump height, but I feel that they might be quite a bit harder to ascertain, especially the latter.

 

[Tepig2000]

My main is going to be competitively viable? This is the best thing I could ever hear.

 

[Louie G.]

I was checking out moveset videos for he newcomers, and it seemed that Greninja didn't have the same Jab Attack as in his reveal trailer. I'm a little concerned, because I really liked that Jab.

So is the Jab different in the demo when compared to the Jab in the Greninja trailer?
Sakurai said it was an early build so maybe Greninja's early Jab is in the demo?

I don't know, I may have found out if I was able to go to Smash Fest.

 

[4cast]

This is how I think Sakurai felt about the Smash Direct

 

[Tepig2000]

This is how I think Sakurai felt about the Smash Direct

Lol so hilarious. The ending is pure gold.

 

[KERO]

I was checking out moveset videos for he newcomers, and it seemed that Greninja didn't have the same Jab Attack as in his reveal trailer. I'm a little concerned, because I really liked that Jab.

So is the Jab different in the demo when compared to the Jab in the Greninja trailer?
Sakurai said it was an early build so maybe Greninja's early Jab is in the demo?

I don't know, I may have found out if I was able to go to Smash Fest.

He still has the rapid jab that was seen in the trailer. It works like Link's or Pit's; if you are pressing the A button slower, he does the finisher; if you press the A button faster, he does the rapid jab (that leads to a finisher).

I'm actually a little more disappointed that the finisher looks like it does because 3DS picture back in April showed the same animation, and I thought it was his pivot grab (which looked gigantic). His pivot grab still seems good enough, but man, that range would've been lovely.

 

[Deleted member]

I just noticed that Greninja's up(?) taunt is very similar to the animation it does when using Special Attacks in Pokemon X/Y. How did I not notice this before?

 

[skylanders fan]

I just noticed that Greninja's up(?) taunt is very similar to the animation it does when using Special Attacks in Pokemon X/Y. How did I not notice this before?

haha now that you mention it i didnt notice it either

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I was checking out moveset videos for he newcomers, and it seemed that Greninja didn't have the same Jab Attack as in his reveal trailer. I'm a little concerned, because I really liked that Jab.

Looks the same to me. Maybe you saw people not doing his rapid jab, he has a regular ender to his three jab series instead of the rapid jabs into finisher that you can do.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Basically, Greninja follows the same rules with Pit where it has a standard 3-input attack or it finishes with a consecutive attack, depending on how the attack button is pressed.

 

[KERO]

Alright, so here's another Greninja match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZHUv5usE5c

However, at 1:24, something interesting happens. Kirby Fthrows Greninja at 25%, and immediately, Greninja Shadow Sneaks out of it. Like, immediately. I'm not even sure that I can see him in a damage animation. I didn't see Hbox ever use Kirby's Fthrow in the Invitational, so maybe Kirby's Fthrow's just terrible? I do remember a yellow Fthrow from Oli in Brawl had literally no hitstun, so it might be a similar thing. Regardless, it'd be interesting if Shadow Sneak may negate hitstun with the drawback that it's really laggy at the end. Although, if I had to guess, it's just Kirby's Fthrow being bad or is something the team is gonna patch.

 

[Pyra]

You can hear him in this video:

That's pretty interesting. I don't know why I didn't expect a froggish-pokemon type voice considering that's what he is. I imagined it deeper and darker because I'm an idiot

What is he saying when he gets launched? Is that just a sound?

 

[Amical]

Alright, so here's another Greninja match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZHUv5usE5c

However, at 1:24, something interesting happens. Kirby Fthrows Greninja at 25%, and immediately, Greninja Shadow Sneaks out of it. Like, immediately. I'm not even sure that I can see him in a damage animation. I didn't see Hbox ever use Kirby's Fthrow in the Invitational, so maybe Kirby's Fthrow's just terrible? I do remember a yellow Fthrow from Oli in Brawl had literally no hitstun, so it might be a similar thing. Regardless, it'd be interesting if Shadow Sneak may negate hitstun with the drawback that it's really laggy at the end. Although, if I had to guess, it's just Kirby's Fthrow being bad or is something the team is gonna patch.

Wow. Awesome find!
I'd say it's more likely that Kirby's FThrow has little hitstun, as you said. However, if that's NOT the case, and our frog-ninja can negate hitstun with Shadow Sneak, then things just got even better; although it might be super situational.

 

[BigShad]

Someone probably asked this earlier, but will using Greninja's Side-B in air cause him to go into free-fall after use?

If he doesn't, then Greninja would have some amazing recovery.

 

[KERO]

Someone probably asked this earlier, but will using Greninja's Side-B in air cause him to go into free-fall after use?

If he doesn't, then Greninja would have some amazing recovery.

It does not, but I felt that it had too much cool down in the air to really be useful as a recovery move (think like Luigi's Melee Up-B but horizontal). Unlike Up-B, Shadow Sneak does not keep its momentum after finishing, and given that he drops pretty quickly, I'd say it's more detrimental to use it than beneficial except in specific circumstances (within range to land on the stage and trying to get around the opponent, etc.,). I'm pretty sure it doesn't even auto-grab the ledge.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Interesting stuff.

Greatest strengths: Range, speed, recovery, mobility

Greatest weaknesses: KO power

Greninja seems like a really solid character. He’s quick and has great recovery, but doesn’t really knock foes out at low percents. This is fine, because he’d probably be unbalanced otherwise—all of his moves have impressive range as well, due to his long limbs. He’s very slick and frog-ninja-esque, meaning they really nailed his design. He’s got combos, speed, and can still score KOs–usually off the top of the screen. Lots of his moves feature him spawning water swords that aren’t attached to his body–he feels like a mixture of Marth and Sheik, to some degree.

Side note, after learning his name origin, I want to play him a lot more. “Gren” comes from “grenouille,” which is French for “frog” (the Kalos region where Pokémon X and Y take place is based heavily on France), and he’s obviously a ninja. In Japanese, his name is Gekkouga, which is like “gecko” plus “koga,” from the Koga-ryu school of ninjutsu (think Koga from Fuschia Gym/the Elite Four). In French, he’s named Amphinobi, like “amphibian/amphibie” + “shinobi.” Super clever, GameFreak. I see you guys. Props to Bulbapedia for listing and explaining the name origins.

Jab – slap, slap, splash (3 hits) – 2, 2, 4

Greninja slaps the opponent and finishes the jab combo with a quick burst of water that’s disjointed from his body/hurtbox. Comes out and finishes pretty quickly.

Forward tilt – kick – 7

Standard forward kick, you can aim it up or down.


Down tilt – foot – 7

Somewhat similar to Mario and Luigi’s down tilt, Greninja pokes his foot out a bit and pops the opponent up in front of him.


Up tilt – tongue – 5

Greninja swings his tongue over his head in an arc. Covers a lot of his body, but doesn’t have as much vertical range as it looks. May not be disjointed. Starts combos, covers landings.


Dash attack – sweep – 7

Greninja slides into the ground and sweeps his foot. Seems kind of slow, reduces his forward momentum when the move comes out. One of his least useful moves, in my opinion.


Forward smash – sword chop – 14-20

Starts a bit slow, but has a good disjoint. Not particularly powerful, but will send opponents off the stage and set up for edgeguards.

Down smash – hand sweep – 11-16

Greninja sweeps his hands around both sides of him. Fairly weak, doesn’t seem safe to go for most of the time.

Up smash – sword cross – 13-19

Two swords come out of Greninja’s hands while he raises his arms up. The swords aren’t part of his body, and the range is pretty solid. This move most likely has the most knockback of his entire moveset, and it can also be used directly out of a dash, so it’s probably going to be one of his most reliable KO moves.

Neutral air – focus – 11

Greninja puts his hands together in a ninja focusing pose and a small burst of water comes out of his torso. It seems kind of hard to land, but also has fairly strong knockback.

Forward air – sword chop – 14

Similar to his forward smash, but in the air. Good range, but I believe it has landing lag from a short hop no matter what. Not particularly high knockback but definitely a useful move.


Back air – triple kick – 3, 3, 4

One of Greninja’s best moves—he kicks behind him three times very quickly with the third hit sending you away. It doesn’t KO, but since multihit moves have been so heavily buffed and Greninja’s limbs are long, it’s really good.


Down air – dive kick – 8

Greninja dives down into the ground at a high speed and plants his foot. Very slow recovery if you miss it, but on hit, it spikes aerial opponents and pops grounded opponents up for a followup.

Up air – drill – 10 (multiple hits, final hit is the strongest and sends you away, but it was too difficult to calculate each individual hit’s damage)

Similar to Samus and Sheik’s up airs, except Greninja goes completely vertical and upside down. The first few hits are weak, then the final one sends you away. One of his best moves—fast and powerful.

Neutral B – Water Shuriken – 4-13

Greninja throws a ninja star, with its size depending on charge. Charge is not cancelable or storable–it releases automatically when you release the B button. The charged projectile has multiple hits and carries the opponent as they take damage, allowing Greninja to chase the thrown Shuriken and follow up from it.


Side B – Shadow Sneak – 10

While you hold the B button, a shadow is cast over the ground in front of you, and it goes further the longer you hold B. Greninja can move and jump while the shadow moves. Upon release/full distance, you teleport completely horizontally to the spot where the shadow is cast–this means Greninja can choose how high he is in the air (if at all) when doing this move. Does not cause freefall, so you can act afterward!

Up B – Waterfall – 2, 2

Very similar to Pikachu’s Quick Attack–Greninja gets two angled bursts of movement with a trail of water. Pretty fast, covers a good amount of distance, but doesn’t hit hard.


Down B – Substitute — ?

This move is a counter. Greninja disappears and spawns a Poké Doll Substitute just like in the games, and when it gets hit, he’ll pop out and hit you. I didn’t get a lot of time to mess with this move, but it seemed a bit unreliable–kind of like how you can escape Lucario’s Double Team in Brawl if you activate it with a move that ends quickly enough.

Source: http://nintendoenthusiast.com/article/competitive-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds/

 

[Jaguar360]

So Up B is Waterfall after all. It makes sense, though I didn't think that would be it since Squirtle already had it.
Greninja overall seems about as I expected him to be as a very agile character that struggles with K.O.s, but it shouldn't be too hard since Greninja seems to rack up damage fairly quickly and Up Smash and Up Air seem like good finishers.

 

[Deleted member]

I always thought up special would be Aqua Jet, as Greninja's up special is similar to Pikachu's, and Aqua Jet is similar to Quick Attack in Pokemon. I'm still going to call it Aqua Jet, but whatever.

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure if it was relevant to this thread, but it appears the water sword concept shown in Smash has gone full circle:

Spoiler

Well, for Froakie, anyway.

 

[Hero_of_Time95]

Is it weird that my favorite thing I've seen from Greninja so far is that down air? Idk, it looks so satisfying to hit with! is there meteor potential with it?

 

[.Shìkì]

Huh.

I bet it just had a slot titled "Pokemon from X/Y" until they had some of the hype from the game/Gamefreaks input. Sakurai posted he basically made Greninjas moveset in one night, so it could have been made almost at any point.

 

[MooseSmuggler]

According to Solfiner, Pokemon is less Nintendo than Xenoblade.
Im tired to prove that he is wrong. You can find him in Shulk thread support. it would be helpful.

Ignore Raetah, he's lying and harassing the Shulk thread. Report this post.

 

[Raetah]

Ignore Raetah, he's lying and harassing the Shulk thread. Report this post.

I do have threads of Solfiner: 1st missing up with Fire Emblem and 2nd Missing up with Pokemon. The true is there to read.

 

[MooseSmuggler]

I do have threads of Solfiner: 1st missing up with Fire Emblem and 2nd Missing up with Pokemon. The true is there to read.

He never once said anything against them though. Pretty sure he's a fan of both. You're just dragging a bunch of people into a completely unnecessary conflict. Just stop it. You're acting like a child.

 

[KERO]

I think the "Waterfall" is just a guess on their behalf since Nintendo or Sakurai still hasn't named Greninja's Up-B. That said, it's really interesting that Greninja can jump when using Shadow Sneak. That definitely gives it a good deal more versatility (I'm imagining using it to punish someone trying to jump over Water Shuri). Article seems pretty spot on, though (although, I don't think Nair is that powerful, about on par with Lucario's when he's around 90%).

Edit: Nvm about the "Gekkouga" thing, was skimming that part at first and misread it. French name is still awesome.

 

[Yikarur]

Has anyone some videos or GIFs of Shadow Sneak? I haven't really seen a good scene where it was used..

I love this character so much

 

[Oz37]

Actually, I was rewatching his trailer and you get a decent glimpse of how quick it is. But that's probably not what you're looking for...