MartinAW4
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2014
- Messages
- 312
As in Smash 4, I will be testing all combos vs Sheik which is a traditionally difficult matchup for Greninja, probably the worst in the game. I will be testing these in training mode with CPU shuffling set to "a lot" to hopefully get some DI from the CPU. But if the training mode is anything like in Smash 4, there is a chance that some combos that are listed as true are not really true or some that are not listed as true are actually true. That is why I will also be listing good strings that either frame trap the opponent (meaning even if they dodge, you can punish the dodge) or are generally hard to dodge or are true 50/50 setups. The percents when these combos work will be different for different characters but usually combos that are true vs Sheik are also true vs most other characters maybe except some floaties like Jigglypuff.
I chose different colors for each combo based on its usefulness:
Green: These are in my opinion the most useful, reliable and safest combos which you'll be using most often.
Yellow: These combos are very good, but they work at smaller % ranges and might not be as reliable.
Orange: These combos aren't bad, but are very situational, working only at very specific % or simply outclassed by other combos.
Red: These combos are not true but can lead to kills or high damage if you land them.
I chose different colors for each combo based on its usefulness:
Green: These are in my opinion the most useful, reliable and safest combos which you'll be using most often.
Yellow: These combos are very good, but they work at smaller % ranges and might not be as reliable.
Orange: These combos aren't bad, but are very situational, working only at very specific % or simply outclassed by other combos.
Red: These combos are not true but can lead to kills or high damage if you land them.
Down Tilt Combos:
Combo moves.......................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
Dtilt > Jab.........................................................0-7%..................................13-16%
Dtilt > Dash Attack...........................0-10%; 11-22%; 23-30%...................12%
Dtilt > Ftilt (3).................................................................21-45%....................................11.3-12.3%
Dtilt > turn around Bair (4)...............25-39%; 40-80%; 81-200%..................13.7%
Dtilt > Usmash....................................40-49%; 50-105%............................23%
Dtilt > Fair...................................................70-170%..................................18%
Dtilt > Uair..................................................80-190%..................................13.5%
Combo moves.......................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
Dtilt > Jab.........................................................0-7%..................................13-16%
Dtilt > Dash Attack...........................0-10%; 11-22%; 23-30%...................12%
Dtilt > Ftilt (3).................................................................21-45%....................................11.3-12.3%
Dtilt > turn around Bair (4)...............25-39%; 40-80%; 81-200%..................13.7%
Dtilt > Usmash....................................40-49%; 50-105%............................23%
Dtilt > Fair...................................................70-170%..................................18%
Dtilt > Uair..................................................80-190%..................................13.5%
Dash Attack Combos:
Combo moves.......................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
Dash Attack > Usmash........................................0-38%.....................................33%
Dash Attack > turn around Bair....................0-100%..................................17.7-19.5%
Dash Attack > Fair.....................................33-120%...................................22%
Dash Attack > Uair.....................................0-120%....................................17.5%
Combo moves.......................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
Dash Attack > Usmash........................................0-38%.....................................33%
Dash Attack > turn around Bair....................0-100%..................................17.7-19.5%
Dash Attack > Fair.....................................33-120%...................................22%
Dash Attack > Uair.....................................0-120%....................................17.5%
Fully Charged Water Shuriken (FCWS) Combos:
Combo moves..................................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
FCWS > Usmash..................................................................0-25%.....................................33%
FCWS > Fair............................................................0-67%.....................................28%
Half charged WS > Dash Attack (2).......10-29%; 30-130%; 131-300%..............11-19%
Combo moves..................................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
FCWS > Usmash..................................................................0-25%.....................................33%
FCWS > Fair............................................................0-67%.....................................28%
Half charged WS > Dash Attack (2).......10-29%; 30-130%; 131-300%..............11-19%
Up Throw Combos:
Combo moves.......................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
Uthrow > Utilt > Uair...............................................0-8%...............................................17.5%
Uthrow > Usmash.....................................................0-25%..............................................24%
Uthrow > Uair (1)........................................4-55%; 56-85%; 96-120%...............14.5%
Combo moves.......................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
Uthrow > Utilt > Uair...............................................0-8%...............................................17.5%
Uthrow > Usmash.....................................................0-25%..............................................24%
Uthrow > Uair (1)........................................4-55%; 56-85%; 96-120%...............14.5%
Down Throw Combos:
Combo moves.................................................................................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
Dthrow > Jab..................................................................................................0-13%..................................14.5%
Dthrow > Dtilt................................................................................................0-15%....................................9%
Dthrow > Dash Attack > Usmash...............................................................0-27%...................................32%
Dthrow > Ftilt................................................................................................10-25%..................................12.3%
Dthrow > Dsmash.........................................................................................16-25%...................................18%
Dthrow > RAR Bair (5) .........................................................................30-80%; 81-180%....................14.7-16.5%
Combo moves.................................................................................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
Dthrow > Jab..................................................................................................0-13%..................................14.5%
Dthrow > Dtilt................................................................................................0-15%....................................9%
Dthrow > Dash Attack > Usmash...............................................................0-27%...................................32%
Dthrow > Ftilt................................................................................................10-25%..................................12.3%
Dthrow > Dsmash.........................................................................................16-25%...................................18%
Dthrow > RAR Bair (5) .........................................................................30-80%; 81-180%....................14.7-16.5%
NOTES
(1) Reliable only until 55%. Requires possibly frame perfect double jump and Uair timing to be true from 56-85%. Not true at 96-120% but kills.
(2) At 10-30% you need to be right next to the opponent and land an almost fully charged shuriken to combo into Dash Attack, so it is not reliable. From 30-130% you can land a partially charged shuriken from mid range and have enough time to true combo it into Dash Attack. As percents go up, use less charge to prevent the opponent from getting launched too far for your follow up. You can true combo even up to 300+% at which point you are comboing off of uncharged shurikens because anything stronger launches too far, but the timing is stricter.
(3) Use up angled Ftilt for more damage and hitting more reliably. Regualr Ftilt still hits between 21-35%, but between 36-45 you will miss unless you angle it up.
(4) After Dtilt, just hold back until you see Greninja start to turn around, then immediately press jump + C stick forward to land the Bair. The combo starts working at 25% but requires frame perfect turnaround into frame perfect instant Bair which is very hard to do consistently. So I recommend going for the combo between 40-70% when it is very consistent and Fair does not combo yet. At over 80% you start needing to full hop the Bair which is hard to do with the buffering system, but if you get it, the combo works well.
(5) From 30-80% you can true combo into short hop RAR Bair. At above 80% you start needing to full hop to connect the Bair but it still true comboes, it is just more difficult to get the full hop with the buffering system. This combo starts killing around 110% making this Greninja's first ever true kill confirm off a grab.
(1) Reliable only until 55%. Requires possibly frame perfect double jump and Uair timing to be true from 56-85%. Not true at 96-120% but kills.
(2) At 10-30% you need to be right next to the opponent and land an almost fully charged shuriken to combo into Dash Attack, so it is not reliable. From 30-130% you can land a partially charged shuriken from mid range and have enough time to true combo it into Dash Attack. As percents go up, use less charge to prevent the opponent from getting launched too far for your follow up. You can true combo even up to 300+% at which point you are comboing off of uncharged shurikens because anything stronger launches too far, but the timing is stricter.
(3) Use up angled Ftilt for more damage and hitting more reliably. Regualr Ftilt still hits between 21-35%, but between 36-45 you will miss unless you angle it up.
(4) After Dtilt, just hold back until you see Greninja start to turn around, then immediately press jump + C stick forward to land the Bair. The combo starts working at 25% but requires frame perfect turnaround into frame perfect instant Bair which is very hard to do consistently. So I recommend going for the combo between 40-70% when it is very consistent and Fair does not combo yet. At over 80% you start needing to full hop the Bair which is hard to do with the buffering system, but if you get it, the combo works well.
(5) From 30-80% you can true combo into short hop RAR Bair. At above 80% you start needing to full hop to connect the Bair but it still true comboes, it is just more difficult to get the full hop with the buffering system. This combo starts killing around 110% making this Greninja's first ever true kill confirm off a grab.
Fthrow > missed tech > Dash Attack > Usmash (at below 20%)
Dthrow > Fair (around 110%) - couldn't get it to register as true so far
Dtilt > Dtilt (low %)
Dtilt > Nair (mid %)
Utilt > Utilt > Uair (low %)
Utilt > Drag down Uair (around 30%)
Utilt > Uair (should work from 0-140% at least)
Utilt > Nair
Utilt > Usmash (low %)
Utilt > Shadow Sneak 50/50 (find optimal % for it, should be around 90% to punish airdodge)
Dash Attack > RAR Bair (mid-high %)
Nair > Jab (low %)
Nair > Dtilt (low %)
Nair > Utilt > Usmash (low %)
Nair > Utilt > Uair (low-mid %)
Nair > Grab (low %)
Nair > Nair (mid %)
Nait > Nair > Fair (mid %)
Nair > Fair (mid-high %)
Nair > Usmash (around 30% sweetspot Nair and around 80% sourspot Nair)
First 2 hits of Bair > Dsmash (at 100+ %) - true kill confirm
Halfway charged Shuriken > Grab (maybe?)
Dair > Fair (around 80%)
Dair > Bair (around 80%)
Fair > Grab (low %) - does not seem true anymore
Fair > Dash Attack > Fair (around 20%) - much stricter range when it works
Fair > Dtilt (low %)
Substitute (up) > Uair (around 80%)
Substitute (up) > Nair (around 75%)
Dthrow > Fair (around 110%) - couldn't get it to register as true so far
Dtilt > Dtilt (low %)
Dtilt > Nair (mid %)
Utilt > Utilt > Uair (low %)
Utilt > Drag down Uair (around 30%)
Utilt > Uair (should work from 0-140% at least)
Utilt > Nair
Utilt > Usmash (low %)
Utilt > Shadow Sneak 50/50 (find optimal % for it, should be around 90% to punish airdodge)
Dash Attack > RAR Bair (mid-high %)
Nair > Jab (low %)
Nair > Dtilt (low %)
Nair > Utilt > Usmash (low %)
Nair > Utilt > Uair (low-mid %)
Nair > Grab (low %)
Nair > Nair (mid %)
Nait > Nair > Fair (mid %)
Nair > Fair (mid-high %)
Nair > Usmash (around 30% sweetspot Nair and around 80% sourspot Nair)
First 2 hits of Bair > Dsmash (at 100+ %) - true kill confirm
Halfway charged Shuriken > Grab (maybe?)
Dair > Fair (around 80%)
Dair > Bair (around 80%)
Fair > Grab (low %) - does not seem true anymore
Fair > Dash Attack > Fair (around 20%) - much stricter range when it works
Fair > Dtilt (low %)
Substitute (up) > Uair (around 80%)
Substitute (up) > Nair (around 75%)
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